puthath
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 349
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Post by puthath on Mar 13, 2019 18:52:23 GMT -5
Regardless of ranking, I'd be delighted with 2 or 3 kids as good as Josh, James & Mac! Don't know if you're being facetious, but I'd say you get that lucky (and yes, hitting on 3 outside the top-50 who are studs is luck regardless of eval ability) once in a generation. Pat and Co could recruit for 35 more years and never match this season's diamond-in-the-rough factor. Pat's gameplan better not be to live and die by guys from 51-150 every year or we are in big trouble. Look, I get that both LeBlanc and Akinjo were rated guys, but both have greatly exceeded expectations. And Mac has wildly exceeded expectations re to ranking. You can't count on that year in and year out. Not even close. You miss on as many guys as not even in the 25-50 range, much less lower. Give credit where it's due to Pat an Co., but they/we were also very lucky. Jeez, Big Pat cannot catch a break! He gets the BE fresh of year, a dynamic underrated player in Mac, and a true diamond in the rough in LeBlanc, who may have the highest ceiling of the 3. But he is “lucky”?!?
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puthath
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 349
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Post by puthath on Mar 13, 2019 18:52:44 GMT -5
Don't know if you're being facetious, but I'd say you get that lucky (and yes, hitting on 3 outside the top-50 who are studs is luck regardless of eval ability) once in a generation. Pat and Co could recruit for 35 more years and never match this season's diamond-in-the-rough factor. Pat's gameplan better not be to live and die by guys from 51-150 every year or we are in big trouble. Look, I get that both LeBlanc and Akinjo were rated guys, but both have greatly exceeded expectations. And Mac has wildly exceeded expectations re to ranking. You can't count on that year in and year out. Not even close. You miss on as many guys as not even in the 25-50 range, much less lower. Give credit where it's due to Pat an Co., but they/we were also very lucky. Jeez, Big Pat cannot catch a break! He gets the BE freshman the of year, a dynamic underrated player in Mac, and a true diamond in the rough in LeBlanc, who may have the highest ceiling of the 3. But he is “lucky”?!?
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 13, 2019 21:20:56 GMT -5
Lucky AF. No question.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,260
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 14, 2019 9:54:11 GMT -5
Sounds like Billy Kennedy is out at Texas A&M. The Aggies had a top 25 recruiting class coming in, with three 4* recruits according to Rivals - some potential late Hoyas targets could be in the group, including F Kobe Brown from Huntsville, AL. That is Kirby territory, would assume a phone call would be made at the very least.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 14, 2019 11:27:43 GMT -5
Pat's gameplan better not be to live and die by guys from 51-150 every year or we are in big trouble. That's exactly where he'll operate most of the time. Fortunately, that's where the entirety of our league operates. Look at the best players in the league, defined by the All-Conference 1st, 2nd and HM teams, and the all freshman team. Of that list the only guys who were in the Top 50 in their recruiting classes (pulling from Rivals) were Govan (40), Naji Marshall (49) and Shamorie Ponds (30). All others were outside the Top 50, including some like McClung or Max Strus who were not even in the Top 150 in their year. Most were in the 50-150 range that you mentioned. Other than post-title Villanova, not many teams in the Big East have the ability to pull in one or more Top 50 kids every year. And Nova's championship team led by Arcidiacono (57), Josh Hart (84), and Kris Jenkins (74) is the blueprint for taking a team with that sort of roster composition and succeeding at the highest level. Kids ranked from 50-150 should always be the backbone of our squad. Really, they're the backbone of most good college teams. Look at what UVA has done over the last several years--they don't have any 5 star Top 25 guys on their roster, they're all 3 and 4 star guys who they've developed into upperclassmen and now they're looking at the #1 overall seed in the tournament. Winning a national championship in college basketball is so difficult for a number of reasons, but if we can get ourselves to the point where we're in the Top 2 in the Big East most years and getting a 4 seed or better in the dance we'll give ourselves a great shot. And FWIW, I do think we can and should continue to stay in the mix with the Cole Anthony's and the Isiah Stewart's of the world. I'd love to have the next Zion Williamson and all the publicity that comes with that. But I don't think it's essential to our success. If we can get back to the point where we are regularly in the Top 25 and in the tournament every year (which was true not all that long ago), eventually we will land a guy at that level, just like we did with Greg Monroe a decade ago. For right now, the key is identifying the RIGHT guys in the 50-150 range (or even outside), developing them, and keeping the team together. What I think we do have to avoid is thinking that we can have a team full of unranked guys who we cobble together in the spring every year and expect to compete at the highest level. That's the way Louie Orr recruited at Seton Hall, and I'm hoping Patrick doesn't take after him. It was good for a record around .500 in conference every year and eventually led to him getting fired even though his teams were well-coached on the floor and his guys played hard for him. Recruiting overall has trended toward later commitments over the last 10 years, but in general you want to lock up a good class by October of their senior years, not be out there hoping for diamonds in the rough in spring. There are exceptions sure, but the odds aren't in favor of it. And I think it's way too early to say whether Patrick and staff were lucky in the 2018 class or if they just have a good eye for talent. If their 2019 guys come in and play well, I think you'd have to lean toward them having a better eye for talent than their competitors and the people who handle rankings, rather than just being lucky.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 14, 2019 23:01:44 GMT -5
All fair points RB. I don’t expect Pat to land a 5-star every year. But I am surprised he has hardly gotten a 5-star nibble. I would love us to live in the 40-100 world of 4-stars. I just don’t really like the idea of going 75+ on every recruit we land every year. That’s not a recipe for success.
In my opinion, we got crazy lucky that 3/4 frosh were impact players. You can’t expect to bat .750 with guys in that 75-150+ range. You have to mix in a high 4 or 5 every other year if you want to compete for BE titles.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 15, 2019 7:01:36 GMT -5
Bribery scandal shows why it’s hard for us to land 4-5 stars.
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Post by chgohoya on Mar 15, 2019 11:15:58 GMT -5
Good points Smokeyjack and I agree.
Sans a long term relationship with a recruit or his family, It’s goi to be tough to land a top 10 or top 25 kid until we start to have consistent success in the NCAA tournament.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 19, 2019 19:28:09 GMT -5
Jason Gibson made first-team all met and is the only kid uncommitted. I hope we're at least talking a PWO slot.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,488
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Post by dchoya72 on Mar 19, 2019 21:05:53 GMT -5
Jason Gibson made first-team all met and is the only kid uncommitted. I hope we're at least talking a PWO slot. Excuse me, what is PWO? Walk on?
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Post by trillesthoya on Mar 19, 2019 21:30:49 GMT -5
Jason Gibson made first-team all met and is the only kid uncommitted. I hope we're at least talking a PWO slot. Excuse me, what is PWO? Walk on? Preferred Walk-On
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 20, 2019 5:54:02 GMT -5
Jason Gibson made first-team all met and is the only kid uncommitted. I hope we're at least talking a PWO slot. That would be good. Surprising he doesn't have more/better offers. Wouldn't be surprised if they came over the next few weeks. JTIII should offer him, if he ends up at W&M, GW, St. Joes, etc.
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hoyalaw33
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 134
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Post by hoyalaw33 on Mar 20, 2019 7:17:06 GMT -5
Would love to keep the last scholly on hold until we see things shake out with decommits and transfers. We are an extremely attractive team to join.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,505
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 20, 2019 9:23:09 GMT -5
Would love to keep the last scholly on hold until we see things shake out with decommits and transfers. We are an extremely attractive team to join. I think if the Gardner kid wanted to commit they would be thrilled and take him right away. He seems to be the type of player Coach Ewing is chasing. If not, they may wait for the tourney to end and for the coaching changes and de-commits to shake out and see who is available and interested. They could really use a sharp shooting/combo type 2 guard to round out this class. In '20 the only senior would be Jagan, but it has always been assumed Yurt is only going to play the one year. That gives you 2 spots in '20 and it seems like every program loses another unexpected player or two along the way so that likely opens up another spot. The program could use some roster/class balance so they do not need to depend on incoming freshman to be so impactful every year.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 20, 2019 10:52:29 GMT -5
Would love to keep the last scholly on hold until we see things shake out with decommits and transfers. We are an extremely attractive team to join. I think if the Gardner kid wanted to commit they would be thrilled and take him right away. He seems to be the type of player Coach Ewing is chasing. If not, they may wait for the tourney to end and for the coaching changes and de-commits to shake out and see who is available and interested. They could really use a sharp shooting/combo type 2 guard to round out this class. In '20 the only senior would be Jagan, but it has always been assumed Yurt is only going to play the one year. That gives you 2 spots in '20 and it seems like every program loses another unexpected player or two along the way so that likely opens up another spot. The program could use some roster/class balance so they do not need to depend on incoming freshman to be so impactful every year. Exactly my thinking. I know Giga and others took umbrage to me calling Pat “lucky” this season, but your point speaks to what I intended. You don’t want to rely on multiple freshmen to make significant impacts every season. That’s unrealistic and disruptive to team chemistry. In fact, even though our three frosh were fantastic last season, I expect we’ll eventually find out their takeover was part if not largely responsible for the floundering of Pickett and Govan.
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 20, 2019 12:29:21 GMT -5
[Exactly my thinking. I know Giga and others took umbrage to me calling Pat “lucky” this season, but your point speaks to what I intended. You don’t want to rely on multiple freshmen to make significant impacts every season. That’s unrealistic and disruptive to team chemistry. In fact, even though our three frosh were fantastic last season, I expect we’ll eventually find out their takeover was part if not largely responsible for the floundering of Pickett and Govan. Smokey, I think it's pretty clear a team doesn't want to rely on multiple freshmen each year - because that would imply production from the previous year's frosh dropped off a cliff. But when building a program, a coach has to get the best kids he can from wherever he can. Pat got kids who have his mindset - win win win. Hustle. Practice hard. Play harder. Never give in or up. The current frosh are about to take over the program - become its leaders. They are going to be responsible for this team achieving consistency. That was our biggest weakness. I see the Pickett and Govan issues differently than you expressed. Govan is an offensive player. A terrific offensive player. But if a game starts out slowly, he can go into a funk. That's been true for four years. His lack of defensive intensity has been true for four years. Even with the three frosh, he still led the team in points and boards. But he never was a "tough" 5 man, a rim runner. An intimidator. Not his personality. Not his game. Despite that, he improved significantly under Coach - at least at the offensive end. The shortcomings in his game and performance, IMHO, are on him. Have nothing to do with the frosh. Pickett? He is a maddening player. Seems like a good kid, good young man. But the effort, confidence and consistency were sorely missing. Same was true the first 2/3s of his frosh year. He turned it on the last 10-12 games last year. Most of us thought the light had come on and that was the player we would see this year. Instead, we only caught glimpses of that kid. His D was definitely better. By comparison, look at the impact Josh had.... no plays were called for him and he still was an effective scorer -- and a dynamite rebounder. All those opportunities were there for Pickett. The addition of Mac and James could have made Pickett a MORE effective player. Less defensive pressure on him, open for shots, driving lanes more open too - because defenders had to spend so much time on Jessie and Makinjo. I like what Pickett is capable of bringing. It seems his own personal issues, confidence, and whatever the case may be are what is holding him back. We don't know what happened to get him those "DNP - Coaches' Decision", but something wasn't right. Can it change? Be improved? Team would be a lot stronger next year with a consistently productive Pickett. I hope it happens. Whether it does or not seems to be in his own hands. Pat is the kind of coach who does not hold grudges and wants all his kids to succeed. We fans just have to sit back and wait and hope. Meanwhile, adding Alexander gets us at least strong competition for the 3 spot, likely 20 minutes/game of production, and quite possibly a starter and major addition to our Hoya team next year. Coach has a lot of work still to accomplish getting GU Hoops back where it belongs, but he has things moving in the right direction and is adding his kind of ballers.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 20, 2019 13:19:05 GMT -5
[Exactly my thinking. I know Giga and others took umbrage to me calling Pat “lucky” this season, but your point speaks to what I intended. You don’t want to rely on multiple freshmen to make significant impacts every season. That’s unrealistic and disruptive to team chemistry. In fact, even though our three frosh were fantastic last season, I expect we’ll eventually find out their takeover was part if not largely responsible for the floundering of Pickett and Govan. Smokey, I think it's pretty clear a team doesn't want to rely on multiple freshmen each year - because that would imply production from the previous year's frosh dropped off a cliff. But when building a program, a coach has to get the best kids he can from wherever he can. Pat got kids who have his mindset - win win win. Hustle. Practice hard. Play harder. Never give in or up. The current frosh are about to take over the program - become its leaders. They are going to be responsible for this team achieving consistency. That was our biggest weakness. I see the Pickett and Govan issues differently than you expressed. Govan is an offensive player. A terrific offensive player. But if a game starts out slowly, he can go into a funk. That's been true for four years. His lack of defensive intensity has been true for four years. Even with the three frosh, he still led the team in points and boards. But he never was a "tough" 5 man, a rim runner. An intimidator. Not his personality. Not his game. Despite that, he improved significantly under Coach - at least at the offensive end. The shortcomings in his game and performance, IMHO, are on him. Have nothing to do with the frosh. Pickett? He is a maddening player. Seems like a good kid, good young man. But the effort, confidence and consistency were sorely missing. Same was true the first 2/3s of his frosh year. He turned it on the last 10-12 games last year. Most of us thought the light had come on and that was the player we would see this year. Instead, we only caught glimpses of that kid. His D was definitely better. By comparison, look at the impact Josh had.... no plays were called for him and he still was an effective scorer -- and a dynamite rebounder. All those opportunities were there for Pickett. The addition of Mac and James could have made Pickett a MORE effective player. Less defensive pressure on him, open for shots, driving lanes more open too - because defenders had to spend so much time on Jessie and Makinjo. I like what Pickett is capable of bringing. It seems his own personal issues, confidence, and whatever the case may be are what is holding him back. We don't know what happened to get him those "DNP - Coaches' Decision", but something wasn't right. Can it change? Be improved? Team would be a lot stronger next year with a consistently productive Pickett. I hope it happens. Whether it does or not seems to be in his own hands. Pat is the kind of coach who does not hold grudges and wants all his kids to succeed. We fans just have to sit back and wait and hope. Meanwhile, adding Alexander gets us at least strong competition for the 3 spot, likely 20 minutes/game of production, and quite possibly a starter and major addition to our Hoya team next year. Coach has a lot of work still to accomplish getting GU Hoops back where it belongs, but he has things moving in the right direction and is adding his kind of ballers. I agree with everything you said. And don’t get me wrong, I love the three freshmen. Yes, no question it’s their team going forward. Pat did a great job finding three fiery kids to carry the torch for GU going forward. Some of that wholesale culture change was inevitable. But I do think the shift in leadership, while absolutely necessary, negatively impacted Govan and Pickett. Govan never really learned to get on board, so by the last few weeks of the season, he had been metaphorically run over and forgotten by the kids...and rightfully so. It will be interesting to see how Pickett reacts next year, because Alexander is a pure dog coming for his minutes. I love that there is depth and competition on the team again. Kids who don’t relish that don’t need to be here.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 20, 2019 14:11:00 GMT -5
Agree that Alexander is a dog. Pickett may be better served coming off the bench and having less pressure on him. Pickett will be a junior next season, it’s time to step up.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 20, 2019 15:01:48 GMT -5
Sounds like Billy Kennedy is out at Texas A&M. The Aggies had a top 25 recruiting class coming in, with three 4* recruits according to Rivals - some potential late Hoyas targets could be in the group, including F Kobe Brown from Huntsville, AL. That is Kirby territory, would assume a phone call would be made at the very least.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 20, 2019 16:55:56 GMT -5
I don’t think we need another forward. Give me a skilled shooter to round out this class.
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