kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 17, 2015 14:33:12 GMT -5
Saw one game with Agau and he seems tentative. I love the classic hoyatalk saying he was dominating in practice. I think he will be a fill in wing who is average on D and boards and below average on O. Maybe Kenner isn't the forum for him and I could easily (hopefully) be wrong. Sounds like a big enough sample size. Great analysis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 15:15:51 GMT -5
Ike was a SUPERIOR defensive rebounder once he began starting. In conference play, he was 6th overall in DefRebRtg. And that's with 2 other guys in the top 11 (Josh, Hop) to contend with. If he rebounds at even close the same rate as his BE #s and his minutes go to around 30mpg (which most people assume, I think), he'll be over 7 rpg -- something only Greg M and Otto have done in the last 10 years. Ike at the 4 with average rebounding at the 5 (and decent rebounding from DSR/LJ) will be plenty sufficient -- very similar to Greg (w/ Julian) and Otto (w/ Nate or Hop) up front. When he's at the 3, he will claim ALL the rebounds. (Notice I'm not saying anything about defense.)
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 17, 2015 18:38:43 GMT -5
Saw one game with Agau and he seems tentative. I love the classic hoyatalk saying he was dominating in practice. I think he will be a fill in wing who is average on D and boards and below average on O. Maybe Kenner isn't the forum for him and I could easily (hopefully) be wrong. "Saw one game" lol The program could save tens of thousands of dollars using a recruiter who could make those evaluations without needing multiple observations.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jul 17, 2015 18:53:24 GMT -5
The program could save tens of thousands of dollars using a recruiter who could make those evaluations without needing multiple observations. Hah didn't mean to offend either, it's just that one performance is usually a better barometer of what a player can do, and not necessarily what he can't (because he might not have shown some things).
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jul 18, 2015 8:56:52 GMT -5
The program could save tens of thousands of dollars using a recruiter who could make those evaluations without needing multiple observations. Hah didn't mean to offend either, it's just that one performance is usually a better barometer of what a player can do, and not necessarily what he can't (because he might not have shown some things). One game means very little but plenty of people, like myself, comment without even seeing one game so there's that. Thank you to all for the updates. I'm trying very hard not to wish the summer away. I'm really excited to see what these guys can do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 10:57:27 GMT -5
Love it... LJ didn't play in this game Thursday btw
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 16:33:27 GMT -5
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jul 18, 2015 17:13:10 GMT -5
I have a feeling we're going to look back one day and say Kaleb was a very fortunate late-signing recruit.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Jul 18, 2015 17:36:44 GMT -5
I have a feeling we're going to look back one day and say Kaleb was a very fortunate late-signing recruit. If signing him helps in any way with his younger brother, then alone it was worth it.
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JB5
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Post by JB5 on Jul 18, 2015 21:02:35 GMT -5
Govan had a field day against a smaller team. I guess it's good to know he can dominate guys so much smaller. Clydes ran into a hot shooting team and committed too many turnovers. Derrickson is not as good as Jeff Green. Nor as big. He did do a credible job matched up against Jeff and Ike. Copeland looked smooth knocking down 2-3 pull up jumpers and a clutch 3 at the end.
In the Tombs game, the refs called a bench technical for reasons I couldn't see or here that led to the other guys shooting 6 FTs in a row (they missed 5). It was perplexing enough that Big John got up out of his chair, walked to the court and called the ref over for an explanation. Stopped the game for several minutes. Never saw that before.
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Jul 18, 2015 21:56:58 GMT -5
Govan had a field day against a smaller team. I guess it's good to know he can dominate guys so much smaller. Clydes ran into a hot shooting team and committed too many turnovers. Derrickson is not as good as Jeff Green. Nor as big. He did do a credible job matched up against Jeff and Ike. Copeland looked smooth knocking down 2-3 pull up jumpers and a clutch 3 at the end. In the Tombs game, the refs called a bench technical for reasons I couldn't see or here that led to the other guys shooting 6 FTs in a row (they missed 5). It was perplexing enough that Big John got up out of his chair, walked to the court and called the ref over for an explanation. Stopped the game for several minutes. Never saw that before. What happened there was the ref called two quick techs on Patrick Ewing Jr meaning he was ejected from the game. The refs were expecting security to escort him off the court. But the GODFATHER Security Guard(I don't know his name, but he's the bald guy you always see at Kenner League games in shorts telling security what to do and he's always around JTII, he seems to be at every Hoya game sitting near the bench in a suit), he went up to the refs saying that Patrick Jr isn't going anywhere, then Big John walked over there and may have "spoke in tongue's" and told the refs that Patrick Ewing Jr. isn't allowed to be ejected!! Ewing stayed on the bench, but wasn't doing any coaching. The only coach I ever saw get ejected from the Kenner League, was Kenner League Legend...COACH RODNEY!!! The security escorted him off the floor too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 10:34:40 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 11:07:12 GMT -5
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Jul 19, 2015 11:34:40 GMT -5
Was there for all 5 games on Sat. Here are my observations fwiw:
1. Tre Campbell had easily the best day among all Hoyas and in fact all participants. In a losing effort, Tre put up 35 points, missed only three shots, banged 4 3s, made all seven of his free throws and did not have a TO. He is extremely quick and looks to have improved both his stroke and handle. Given our dearth of guards, I think it's going to very tough to keep him out of the starting 5.
On the negative side, Tre had zero assists yday, and he doesn't routinely use his quickness to create shots for his teammates. But make no mistake, Tre is going to be a major impact guy and appears to be playing with a real air of confidence.
2. Trey Mourning - while I'm on the last game, I was really looking forward to seeing TM given the reports of his leap forward. One game clearly isn't a fair sample, but Trey does seem far more comfortable and assertive. Given our wealth of bigs, I don't expect him to be a major factor this year. I'd say he's jumped past Hayes and I now think he has the chance to be in the top 7 his jr year.
3. Agau was a really unexpected surprise. Most of the discussion of his Kenner play was fairly muted, but he was really impressive yday. His hustle was remarkable. His passing ability was superb for a big guy. He is very quick up and down the floor. And he was by far the most adept defensive big among our guys on the day. Given our real need for a blue-collar rim protector and rebounder, I think AA has been really undervalued by the board to date.
4. Govan is huge and has great hands and a nice touch. On Saturday, he also had no interest in rebounding or playing defense. Yes, it's summer league, but he's got a lot more work to do on the D end than the offensive end to have the massive impact we are hoping for from him.
5. Johnson - As was noted higher up, Kaleb is going to surprise some folks. He's a superb athlete with a very high motor and better skills than expected. Good glue guy who could be a better version of Bowen.
6. Derrickson - First off, dude is huge. Very smooth stroke from deep and just a thick, thick build. I don't really like the Danya Abrams comparison someone made earlier, because his game has very few blue collar bits and pieces. Actually, he's like the anti-Abrams - he's got good stroke and handle but is a mediocre rebounder and post grinder given his size and length and strength. I don't know exactly where he fits in, because he's like a 5th 3/4 on our roster. But he's got so many tools and such great size that he's going to be a factor immediately.
7. Cope - pretty much as expected. Release is just devilishly quick. Handle is improved. Going to be interesting to see how JT3 divvies up minutes with all these extremely skilled 3/4s. At first blush, we have a bunch of guys who can score but I expect one of the real deciding factors relative to minutes to be rewarding guys who are willing to go all in on the defensive end.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 19, 2015 12:47:12 GMT -5
Nice recap, Smokey, and thanks for it!
So we have interchangeable 1 and 2s in DSR, Tre and LJ? Good! With all the speed and aggressiveness, Tre is playing more and more like I thought LJ would.
I do not agree that Trey will jump Hayes, but the more solid competition, the better for the team (and for us). We'll see soon enough.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 19, 2015 14:29:26 GMT -5
Was there for all 5 games on Sat. Here are my observations fwiw: 1. Tre Campbell had easily the best day among all Hoyas and in fact all participants. In a losing effort, Tre put up 35 points, missed only three shots, banged 4 3s, made all seven of his free throws and did not have a TO. He is extremely quick and looks to have improved both his stroke and handle. Given our dearth of guards, I think it's going to very tough to keep him out of the starting 5. On the negative side, Tre had zero assists yday, and he doesn't routinely use his quickness to create shots for his teammates. But make no mistake, Tre is going to be a major impact guy and appears to be playing with a real air of confidence. 2. Trey Mourning - while I'm on the last game, I was really looking forward to seeing TM given the reports of his leap forward. One game clearly isn't a fair sample, but Trey does seem far more comfortable and assertive. Given our wealth of bigs, I don't expect him to be a major factor this year. I'd say he's jumped past Hayes and I now think he has the chance to be in the top 7 his jr year. 3. Agau was a really unexpected surprise. Most of the discussion of his Kenner play was fairly muted, but he was really impressive yday. His hustle was remarkable. His passing ability was superb for a big guy. He is very quick up and down the floor. And he was by far the most adept defensive big among our guys on the day. Given our real need for a blue-collar rim protector and rebounder, I think AA has been really undervalued by the board to date. 4. Govan is huge and has great hands and a nice touch. On Saturday, he also had no interest in rebounding or playing defense. Yes, it's summer league, but he's got a lot more work to do on the D end than the offensive end to have the massive impact we are hoping for from him. 5. Johnson - As was noted higher up, Kaleb is going to surprise some folks. He's a superb athlete with a very high motor and better skills than expected. Good glue guy who could be a better version of Bowen. 6. Derrickson - First off, dude is huge. Very smooth stroke from deep and just a thick, thick build. I don't really like the Danya Abrams comparison someone made earlier, because his game has very few blue collar bits and pieces. Actually, he's like the anti-Abrams - he's got good stroke and handle but is a mediocre rebounder and post grinder given his size and length and strength. I don't know exactly where he fits in, because he's like a 5th 3/4 on our roster. But he's got so many tools and such great size that he's going to be a factor immediately. 7. Cope - pretty much as expected. Release is just devilishly quick. Handle is improved. Going to be interesting to see how JT3 divvies up minutes with all these extremely skilled 3/4s. At first blush, we have a bunch of guys who can score but I expect one of the real deciding factors relative to minutes to be rewarding guys who are willing to go all in on the defensive end. If you don't think Trey will be much of a factor, and that he has passed Hayes, you think Hayes will be NO factor this year?
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Jul 19, 2015 16:05:21 GMT -5
No, I really don't think Hayes will be much of a factor this year. Govan is pretty special from a size and ceiling perspective, so I think he starts from Day 1. And I think Agau is well ahead of Hayes and Mourning as well, particularly in the dirty work category where I think AA becomes an interchangeable part with any number of personnel groupings.
Govan gives you a nasty offensive threat who almost has to be doubled (think Josh last season), even though he still needs a lot of work defensively.
When we go smaller and more defensive in the post, I see that being AA, because he proved to me in one game yday that he can rebound out of space and defend goul line extended - a current disaster for Mourning and I'm betting my house not a strong suit for Hayes either.
For me, it's pretty simple - how many times do we need to counter an opposing true 6-10/7-0 post presence with a similar body? Not often. If Govan or Hayes or Mourning had Obepka-like quickness than they could also be extremely valuable protecting the rim from jitterbugs on help. But none of the three is remotely quick enough. IMO you are far better going smaller and quicker with guys like AA and Cope than bigger and slower.
Plus, AA runs the floor and passes better than Hayes or Mourning. I could absolutely be wrong, but I see a rotation of Tre, DSR, Peak, Cope, Govan, White, Derrickson, AA and occasionally Johnson with essentially zero time going to Cameron, Hayes and Mourning.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jul 19, 2015 17:23:59 GMT -5
No, I really don't think Hayes will be much of a factor this year. Govan is pretty special from a size and ceiling perspective, so I think he starts from Day 1. And I think Agau is well ahead of Hayes and Mourning as well, particularly in the dirty work category where I think AA becomes an interchangeable part with any number of personnel groupings. Govan gives you a nasty offensive threat who almost has to be doubled (think Josh last season), even though he still needs a lot of work defensively. When we go smaller and more defensive in the post, I see that being AA, because he proved to me in one game yday that he can rebound out of space and defend goul line extended - a current disaster for Mourning and I'm betting my house not a strong suit for Hayes either. For me, it's pretty simple - how many times do we need to counter an opposing true 6-10/7-0 post presence with a similar body? Not often. If Govan or Hayes or Mourning had Obepka-like quickness than they could also be extremely valuable protecting the rim from jitterbugs on help. But none of the three is remotely quick enough. IMO you are far better going smaller and quicker with guys like AA and Cope than bigger and slower. Plus, AA runs the floor and passes better than Hayes or Mourning. I could absolutely be wrong, but I see a rotation of Tre, DSR, Peak, Cope, Govan, White, Derrickson, AA and occasionally Johnson with essentially zero time going to Cameron, Hayes and Mourning. Not sure you are right about AA as backup center,but greatly appreciate the recaps and opinions, as well.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 19, 2015 18:26:47 GMT -5
Was there for all 5 games on Sat. Here are my observations fwiw: 1. Tre Campbell had easily the best day among all Hoyas and in fact all participants. In a losing effort, Tre put up 35 points, missed only three shots, banged 4 3s, made all seven of his free throws and did not have a TO. He is extremely quick and looks to have improved both his stroke and handle. Given our dearth of guards, I think it's going to very tough to keep him out of the starting 5. On the negative side, Tre had zero assists yday, and he doesn't routinely use his quickness to create shots for his teammates. But make no mistake, Tre is going to be a major impact guy and appears to be playing with a real air of confidence. 2. Trey Mourning - while I'm on the last game, I was really looking forward to seeing TM given the reports of his leap forward. One game clearly isn't a fair sample, but Trey does seem far more comfortable and assertive. Given our wealth of bigs, I don't expect him to be a major factor this year. I'd say he's jumped past Hayes and I now think he has the chance to be in the top 7 his jr year. 3. Agau was a really unexpected surprise. Most of the discussion of his Kenner play was fairly muted, but he was really impressive yday. His hustle was remarkable. His passing ability was superb for a big guy. He is very quick up and down the floor. And he was by far the most adept defensive big among our guys on the day. Given our real need for a blue-collar rim protector and rebounder, I think AA has been really undervalued by the board to date. 4. Govan is huge and has great hands and a nice touch. On Saturday, he also had no interest in rebounding or playing defense. Yes, it's summer league, but he's got a lot more work to do on the D end than the offensive end to have the massive impact we are hoping for from him. 5. Johnson - As was noted higher up, Kaleb is going to surprise some folks. He's a superb athlete with a very high motor and better skills than expected. Good glue guy who could be a better version of Bowen. 6. Derrickson - First off, dude is huge. Very smooth stroke from deep and just a thick, thick build. I don't really like the Danya Abrams comparison someone made earlier, because his game has very few blue collar bits and pieces. Actually, he's like the anti-Abrams - he's got good stroke and handle but is a mediocre rebounder and post grinder given his size and length and strength. I don't know exactly where he fits in, because he's like a 5th 3/4 on our roster. But he's got so many tools and such great size that he's going to be a factor immediately. 7. Cope - pretty much as expected. Release is just devilishly quick. Handle is improved. Going to be interesting to see how JT3 divvies up minutes with all these extremely skilled 3/4s. At first blush, we have a bunch of guys who can score but I expect one of the real deciding factors relative to minutes to be rewarding guys who are willing to go all in on the defensive end. If you don't think Trey will be much of a factor, and that he has passed Hayes, you think Hayes will be NO factor this year?Hayes is injured. Had a cast on his forearm from elbow to his thumb. Looks like wrist or arm so he's probably out anywhere from a month to two months depending on the injury and severity.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 19, 2015 20:31:59 GMT -5
If you don't think Trey will be much of a factor, and that he has passed Hayes, you think Hayes will be NO factor this year?Hayes is injured. Had a cast on his forearm from elbow to his thumb. Looks like wrist or arm so he's probably out anywhere from a month to two months depending on the injury and severity. Not good. Hopefully it's off by Italy trip
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