|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 12, 2015 11:45:17 GMT -5
You could say that, or you could say that we played very badly against Xavier, not great against providence, and good enough to be 9-1 against the rest of the league. Also a reality. I think a better measure of the potential of this team is to assess how they have fared against opponents that are in the running for NCAA bids. At present, it appears the Big East has only 5 candidates: Nova, Butler, Providence, Xavier, and Georgetown. Maybe St. John's, but we have not played them yet. Against these teams, we have posted a 2-6 record, with only one game remaining at Butler. Out of conference, we went 1-2 against Top 65 RPI teams. In total, we are 3-8 against NCAA tournament level teams. So, I am more pumped after the Seton Hall victory, but I need to temper my enthusiasm with the facts, which is that this has been an erratic, inconsistent team that has played poorly in long stretches against our stiffest competition. It's not the type of resume you can use to argue that we are destined for a deep NCAA tourney run. Perhaps the emergence of Copeland and the new lineup will shake things up and provide more consistent play. Seton Hall is still in the running for a bid. They were one of the last 4 teams in before we beat them and are currently one of the last 4 out. We're 3-8 against top 50 teams, But you could expand it to bubble teams Below 70 RPI and we're 5-8.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 12, 2015 11:46:08 GMT -5
This team, particularly Smith/Hopkins and maybe Trawick needs an attitude adjustment to be successful. They are undisciplined when it comes to fouls as has been obvious to us all. These players and JTIII spend way too much time and energy complaining to referees and exhibiting lousy body language and it hurts them and the team - if I were a ref, I'd be looking at ways to blow the whistle because the team shows such little respect, even when things are generally going well as in the Seton Hall game. Not true for everyone, but it is out of control and frankly makes it hard to root for some of the players. I hope JTIII addresses it going forward. I love the younger players, DSR and Bowen though. Go Hoyas. This is a post from some bizarro universe. Yeah seriously.
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 12, 2015 11:51:11 GMT -5
This team, particularly Smith/Hopkins and maybe Trawick needs an attitude adjustment to be successful. They are undisciplined when it comes to fouls as has been obvious to us all. These players and JTIII spend way too much time and energy complaining to referees and exhibiting lousy body language and it hurts them and the team - if I were a ref, I'd be looking at ways to blow the whistle because the team shows such little respect, even when things are generally going well as in the Seton Hall game. Not true for everyone, but it is out of control and frankly makes it hard to root for some of the players. I hope JTIII addresses it going forward. I love the younger players, DSR and Bowen though. Go Hoyas. Hold up. Josh Smith spends way too much time and energy complaining to referees? Guy gets abused just about worse than anybody not named Mike Sweetney down in the paint and hasn't said a word to the refs or showed an ounce of frustration all season. If anything, it is nothing short of amazing that he's been able to keep his composure up to this point. I would throw Hop into this group too; has anyone other than Jabril drawn a technical all season? JTIII has done a better job of protecting his players this year from poor officiating, but I think he could stand to do even a little more in this regard. I don't think refs in general have an inherent bias against Georgetown, but really a large percentage of them are incompetent and either don't know the rules or are lousy at enforcing them consistently throughout the course of a game.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
|
Post by Cambridge on Feb 12, 2015 12:00:05 GMT -5
This team, particularly Smith/Hopkins and maybe Trawick needs an attitude adjustment to be successful. They are undisciplined when it comes to fouls as has been obvious to us all. These players and JTIII spend way too much time and energy complaining to referees and exhibiting lousy body language and it hurts them and the team - if I were a ref, I'd be looking at ways to blow the whistle because the team shows such little respect, even when things are generally going well as in the Seton Hall game. Not true for everyone, but it is out of control and frankly makes it hard to root for some of the players. I hope JTIII addresses it going forward. I love the younger players, DSR and Bowen though. Go Hoyas. Hold up. Josh Smith spends way too much time and energy complaining to referees? Guy gets abused just about worse than anybody not named Mike Sweetney down in the paint and hasn't said a word to the refs or showed an ounce of frustration all season. If anything, it is nothing short of amazing that he's been able to keep his composure up to this point. I would throw Hop into this group too; has anyone other than Jabril drawn a technical all season? JTIII has done a better job of protecting his players this year from poor officiating, but I think he could stand to do even a little more in this regard. I don't think refs in general have an inherent bias against Georgetown, but really a large percentage of them are incompetent and either don't know the rules or are lousy at enforcing them consistently throughout the course of a game. I will admit that Josh can throw some serious shade with his signature smirk (and occasionally a slight head shake) after a questionable foul call, but considering the number of questionable calls thrown his way he's pretty amazingly composed. Of course, he did nearly murder Chvotkin when he kicked the press table at Seton Hall...
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 12, 2015 12:13:56 GMT -5
This team, particularly Smith/Hopkins and maybe Trawick needs an attitude adjustment to be successful. They are undisciplined when it comes to fouls as has been obvious to us all. These players and JTIII spend way too much time and energy complaining to referees and exhibiting lousy body language and it hurts them and the team - if I were a ref, I'd be looking at ways to blow the whistle because the team shows such little respect, even when things are generally going well as in the Seton Hall game. Not true for everyone, but it is out of control and frankly makes it hard to root for some of the players. I hope JTIII addresses it going forward. I love the younger players, DSR and Bowen though. Go Hoyas. Have you watched guys on other teams complaining about calls? Our guys - including Josh, Hop and bril - are quite composed in comparison. And JTIII comes nowhere close to Mack, Purnell, McDermott, even Cooley in his demeanor with refs.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 12, 2015 12:29:21 GMT -5
A typical Dhall post...
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 12, 2015 12:55:26 GMT -5
This team, particularly Smith/Hopkins and maybe Trawick needs an attitude adjustment to be successful. They are undisciplined when it comes to fouls as has been obvious to us all. These players and JTIII spend way too much time and energy complaining to referees and exhibiting lousy body language and it hurts them and the team - if I were a ref, I'd be looking at ways to blow the whistle because the team shows such little respect, even when things are generally going well as in the Seton Hall game. Not true for everyone, but it is out of control and frankly makes it hard to root for some of the players. I hope JTIII addresses it going forward. I love the younger players, DSR and Bowen though. Go Hoyas. I don't really understand this post. Based on actual quotes and statements from both John Thompson III and the players, it seems as though the players generally have good attitudes, and JTIII has commented this year that the team has good chemistry. On HoyaTalk, if anything, the main criticism is that JTIII doesn't light into the referees ENOUGH. Personally, I think he does that more than people give him credit, and I have no problem with it at all. The fact is our players, especially Smith, have been called for ridiculous fouls all year. I do realize sometimes the players will grin or smirk after a foul, but sometimes it's warranted given how absurd the calls have been. I think our players are fine, respectful, and professional. This isn't Seton Hall.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 12, 2015 13:51:57 GMT -5
I think a better measure of the potential of this team is to assess how they have fared against opponents that are in the running for NCAA bids. At present, it appears the Big East has only 5 candidates: Nova, Butler, Providence, Xavier, and Georgetown. Maybe St. John's, but we have not played them yet. Against these teams, we have posted a 2-6 record, with only one game remaining at Butler. Out of conference, we went 1-2 against Top 65 RPI teams. In total, we are 3-8 against NCAA tournament level teams. So, I am more pumped after the Seton Hall victory, but I need to temper my enthusiasm with the facts, which is that this has been an erratic, inconsistent team that has played poorly in long stretches against our stiffest competition. It's not the type of resume you can use to argue that we are destined for a deep NCAA tourney run. Perhaps the emergence of Copeland and the new lineup will shake things up and provide more consistent play. Seton Hall is still in the running for a bid. They were one of the last 4 teams in before we beat them and are currently one of the last 4 out. We're 3-8 against top 50 teams, But you could expand it to bubble teams Below 70 RPI and we're 5-8. The chances that Seton Hall make the NCAA dance now are incredibly slim. I don't think they are seriously in the running anymore.
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
|
Post by Filo on Feb 12, 2015 14:04:26 GMT -5
Well, the entertainment value of this thread has definitely taken an uptick thanks to the bizarro post and those taking the bait. Hoyatalk always entertains...
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Feb 12, 2015 14:17:32 GMT -5
Anyone know how bad Obekpa's sprained ankle is? Didn't play last night vs. DePaul. SJU has another game at Xavier on Saturday before they face us, but I wonder if he will be ready in time for our game.
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,773
|
Post by njhoya78 on Feb 12, 2015 14:25:34 GMT -5
Obekpa was a "game time" decision according to Steve Lavin. Lavin has said, though, that Obekpa will not be starting when he returns, and will come off of the bench for St. John's. The Johnnies play at Xavier on Saturday, so we'll probably know more about Obekpa's status for our game during the course of that game.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 12, 2015 14:27:55 GMT -5
I really hope that SJU wins on Saturday versus Xavier. The less desperate and angry they are, the better it would be for the Hoyas.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Feb 12, 2015 14:30:53 GMT -5
Wow, I lost track of SJU. They must be playing pretty well to win without Obekpa. Last I heard they basically had a 5 man rotation. I was hoping this game was going to be easier than it appears to be. I really dislike Harrison, I would love to take him down again.
|
|
Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by Dhall on Feb 12, 2015 14:51:04 GMT -5
This team, particularly Smith/Hopkins and maybe Trawick needs an attitude adjustment to be successful. They are undisciplined when it comes to fouls as has been obvious to us all. These players and JTIII spend way too much time and energy complaining to referees and exhibiting lousy body language and it hurts them and the team - if I were a ref, I'd be looking at ways to blow the whistle because the team shows such little respect, even when things are generally going well as in the Seton Hall game. Not true for everyone, but it is out of control and frankly makes it hard to root for some of the players. I hope JTIII addresses it going forward. I love the younger players, DSR and Bowen though. Go Hoyas. I don't really understand this post. Based on actual quotes and statements from both John Thompson III and the players, it seems as though the players generally have good attitudes, and JTIII has commented this year that the team has good chemistry. On HoyaTalk, if anything, the main criticism is that JTIII doesn't light into the referees ENOUGH. Personally, I think he does that more than people give him credit, and I have no problem with it at all. The fact is our players, especially Smith, have been called for ridiculous fouls all year. I do realize sometimes the players will grin or smirk after a foul, but sometimes it's warranted given how absurd the calls have been. I think our players are fine, respectful, and professional. This isn't Seton Hall. I'm sitting near court side at the home games and of course have the same view as everyone on TV for away games. If you watch closely, you will see the refs warning at least two of Smith, Trawick, Hopkins and JTIII every game for their reactions. Also multiple times when we don't get a foul on the offensive end, our guy reacts like a spoiled brat, and then he gets a foul called against him in the next minute either because he is frustrated or the ref didn't like the earlier reaction. I agree the college refs are lousy, but you have to live with it or at least let JTIII handle it himself. If you don't believe this, fine, then I guess the reason they are in foul trouble every game is just because they are lazy unintelligent defenders who can't seem to figure out how not to foul. Take your pick, both reflect a poor attitude or basketball IQ and if it doesn't change this team is going nowhere. Sure, this is a negative post calling out a few players. But imagine this team with those guys, who are all talented in different ways, not committing so many dumb fouls. JTIII would have flexibility to use the depth we have on a strategic basis rather than being forced into lineups he might not want. The other team doesn get to the free throw line as much. There is a chance to be more aggressive in the later part of the game. We have more scoring opportunities (for offensive fouls which are turnovers). We would be so much better than we have been.
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,773
|
Post by njhoya78 on Feb 12, 2015 14:53:12 GMT -5
St. John's isn't playing all that great without Opekba; it's more a function of match ups and who they've played. Here's their last ten games:
Villanova L 72-90 at Providence W 83-70 at DePaul L 67-71 OT Marquette W 60-57 Duke L 68-77 at Creighton L 74-77 Providence W 75-66 at Butler L 62-85 Creighton W 84-66 DePaul W 86-78
They have beaten Providence twice (more than we can say), but split with DePaul and Creighton. They were blown out at Butler. I think they've been fortunate to have Creighton and DePaul in their last two games. The game at Xavier will be a much better indicator of what type of team the Johnnies presently have.
|
|
Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by Dhall on Feb 12, 2015 14:54:36 GMT -5
We are 290th in fouls per game by the way. In this case, that means 290th best, where being ranked 1st is least fouls and 350th most.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
|
Post by Cambridge on Feb 12, 2015 15:22:56 GMT -5
We are 290th in fouls per game by the way. In this case, that means 290th best, where being ranked 1st is least fouls and 350th most. And you believe that this is a result of JTIII, Smith, Hop and Trawick complaining too much?
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 12, 2015 19:28:02 GMT -5
I can't believe that SJU beat Providence twice and we lost to them twice. Incredible.
Anyway, we can't take the Johnnies lightly at all. They are athletic and explosive. At their best, they can challenge anyone in the conference. To their detriment, however, they are undisciplined and erratic.
We need to play very soundly on offense with limited turnovers and disrupt them on defense without giving up open 3s to Harrison.
It will be tough to beat them twice, but we can do it.
|
|
|
Post by grandmahoya on Feb 12, 2015 19:45:11 GMT -5
We are 290th in fouls per game by the way. In this case, that means 290th best, where being ranked 1st is least fouls and 350th most. And you believe that this is a result of JTIII, Smith, Hop and Trawick complaining too much? I think that we get called for fouls a lot on the road because of our Hoya / Paranoia history rather than the play of the actual players that we have. Also, at home I don't think, except for the Villanova game we get the crowd mania that we need. Plus, JTIII doesn't work the refs like other coaches. And we all know who they are. Obviously, home court advantage isn't just the crowd. A quote I just read by the late Jerry Tarkanian, "Nine out of ten teams cheat and the tenth team is in last place." A little something to think about.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,326
|
Post by tashoya on Feb 12, 2015 19:53:26 GMT -5
I can't believe that SJU beat Providence twice and we lost to them twice. Incredible. Anyway, we can't take the Johnnies lightly at all. They are athletic and explosive. At their best, they can challenge anyone in the conference. To their detriment, however, they are undisciplined and erratic. We need to play very soundly on offense with limited turnovers and disrupt them on defense without giving up open 3s to Harrison. It will be tough to beat them twice, but we can do it. The good news is that our "small" line-up that was used against the Hall could have some success against the Johnnies as well as they are better able to hang in the running game. If St. John's can't speed you up and can't run, they have little chance of winning. I can't decide if I like the Obekpa/Josh matchup but I'm leaning towards not so much. Obekpa does have a bit of a jumper now that he uses more regularly and with which he's more consistent than in years past that will force Josh to move more. Depending on which side of the "attitude" problem with our guys one falls (I disagree that there is one), St. John's is on a whole different level in that regard. Our guys will look like choir boys in comparison. Same goes for Lavin/JT3. On a related note, if Josh smirking after some of the calls against him is bothersome to any of our fans under the age of 60, I can't imagine those same people watching any competitive sport at any level in the past 10 years or so and enjoying any part of them. I can't believe Joshua hasn't gotten T'd up multiple times this year. The corollary to the "attitude" argument is that the refs are calling nonexistent fouls because they don't like the attitude of the kids they're officiating. Chicken or the egg? Is the attitude because of the calls or the calls because of the attitude? It's funny, however, that a big complaint on this board is that, oftentimes, people think our guys don't look energetic or like they're into the game. Which is it? Is Coach too quiet or is he too whiny? Body language is poor? Body language? Really? I do remember that DaJuan and Austin didn't smile enough. I can't believe they didn't get called for more fouls. If the refs don't like the attitude, call a tech. That's what they're for. Otherwise, call a clean game. It is, after all, what they're there to do. Surely, since the attitude has been so bad, we must've been rung up a bunch of times for it, right? Oh, wait. We haven't. If anything, our fans have asked for more T's. On purpose.
|
|