Just Cos
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Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Jan 20, 2015 4:44:46 GMT -5
At the game and when it happened I thought it was worth review. I had the benefit of a TV in front of me and definitely thought it was worth review. I don't think enough of you understand the new way this is being called and an elbow to the face in a non basketball move is a flagrant. That's how they call it now.
His non driving arm came around and whipped Jabril in the face. No matter what it is worth a review.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 6:32:23 GMT -5
Intentional or not, I'm not sure why the refs didn't at least give it a look. With all of the emphasis on blows to the head, it seemed like an obvious moment to take the time. Far more so than when they looked at the "foul" that Copeland "committed" on Ennis' missed dunk.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 20, 2015 7:42:26 GMT -5
Yes I know that, but I'm referring to the special attention players like Jabril get based on reputation. He doesn't have that same reputation thought I believe he clearly deserves it. To put it another way, had that play been Jabril elbowing/arm smacking him it definitely would have at least been reviewed. I really have no idea how you can have a player elbowed in the eye/nose to the point where his nose is bleeding and they don't even review it with these current elbow rules. Yup, that's all I'm saying. NCAA and refs need to be aware of it. Hart's doing things which are really dangerous compared to Jabril (especially the leg whip on Delgado) and the refs need to give equal attention to watching Hart. I'm just surprised Hart's antics still fly under the radar when Jabril's every move is scrutinized. Professor you need to go back into the archives and watch the Gtown/Pitt game from two yrs ago. Brilly shoots a elbow to the pg's neck. He wasn't looking but you can't convince me that he didn't know he was there. While I don't advocate that style of play, I do recognize the need for an enforcer on the court. We can't have it both ways. Our tough guy is a Hoya so he's ok but that other guy is dirty so suspend him forever. The play was dirty by Hart but Brilly crosses that line too.......often
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 20, 2015 8:44:25 GMT -5
For what it's worth (that is, not much), in my view, it wasn't intentional. Whether Hart is nonetheless a dirty player is a separate issue. So, too, is the issue of whether it should have been checked for a flagrant. To that end, I couldn't quite tell what was said to the official, but it looked like when the ref came over to check on Bril, Bril told him that he got hit in the eye on Hart's way down. It could be that Bril was conceding that in his view it wasn't purposeful and, thus, the referee determined that there was no need to look at it. Just a thought.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 20, 2015 8:52:22 GMT -5
After watching the replay a couple of times as well as seeing it (from behind) live, it looked to me like an arm flail from a guy falling backwards losing his balance. Unless Hart has eyes in the back of his head, hard to say it was intentional. Guys get raked across the face regularly in games.
As for whether it should have been reviewed, there were at least 3 head shots (that one included) that left us mystified as to why there was not a flagrant monitor review. There sure have been enough reviewed for the Hoyas this year. Then again, this crew had 2 guys no greater than 8 feet from that out of bounds play in front of the Nova bench in the second half which was clearly either a Nova foul or out of bounds on Nova and they couldn't figure it out without calling in the third guy and discussing it for 5 minutes.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 20, 2015 9:38:24 GMT -5
Yup, wasn't his elbow at all. He threw his arm out there intentionally and hit him in the eye. He knew exactly what he was doing. LOL, it was an accident. Can we just celebrate a really good win for once without manufacturing something to be mad about. It wasn't an accident. Nobody reverse pivots and flails their arms like that, especially after going up strong.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 20, 2015 9:45:40 GMT -5
In the Butler game Saturday, Jabril (apparently) took out a Butler player with a shot to the fellas. It's been his M.O. for most of his career as a Hoya and I love him. Josh Hart has a little ways to go before we know if he's a dirty player. Imo Which Butler player? If you don't know Hart is a dirty player by now then you're just choosing to ignore it.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 20, 2015 10:13:31 GMT -5
After watching the replay a couple of times as well as seeing it (from behind) live, it looked to me like an arm flail from a guy falling backwards losing his balance. Unless Hart has eyes in the back of his head, hard to say it was intentional. Guys get raked across the face regularly in games. As for whether it should have been reviewed, there were at least 3 head shots (that one included) that left us mystified as to why there was not a flagrant monitor review. There sure have been enough reviewed for the Hoyas this year. Then again, this crew had 2 guys no greater than 8 feet from that out of bounds play in front of the Nova bench in the second half which was clearly either a Nova foul or out of bounds on Nova and they couldn't figure it out without calling in the third guy and discussing it for 5 minutes. In slow motion, it's really unnatural. Perhaps that's just a product of slow motion making things look weird, but his flail seems to come after anything that would cause it. At best case, it looks like a flop, trying to draw a foul. At worst case, it looks like he's trying to hit someone. Like I said, if it was any other player, I'd think it was unintentional. Since it was Nkamadong Hart, I tend to question.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 20, 2015 10:17:10 GMT -5
Maybe he was reckless on the play, but he isn't coordinated enough to whip around and hit Trawick in the face on purpose. He may well be dirty in general but that play was just a thing that happens sometimes.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 20, 2015 10:41:32 GMT -5
I tend to agree it might not be intentional but after what I saw him do to Delgado I just think he is a dirty player who takes cheap shots. When he leg whipped him that was unnatural movement that was trying to hide intentions too looking like he was kicking at the ball.
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ksf42001
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by ksf42001 on Jan 20, 2015 10:48:30 GMT -5
Maybe he was reckless on the play, but he isn't coordinated enough to whip around and hit Trawick in the face on purpose. He may well be dirty in general but that play was just a thing that happens sometimes. I don't think it was a laser-focused attack that required black-belt coordination. Personally, I think he was upset about being blocked, knew Jabril was behind him, and threw his arm back with a little more force than was necessary. It was a lucky shot that he hit Jabril so flush on the face, not 100% intentional but not 100% accident either.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 20, 2015 10:48:30 GMT -5
I suspect that if the refs had not required the ridiculous review of Ike's non-foul/brush foul, we would not have been so outraged that they did not even bother to review Hart's contact - nor the play when Ochefu backed into Ike on the lob and made far more contact than Ike had made. I believe the refs are required to review any contact above the shoulders unless they clearly see that it is part of a "basketball action", so they should have reviewed Hart's contact. On review I don't think you can say it was flagrant, but they should have looked at it.
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Post by dungeon ball on Jan 20, 2015 11:10:35 GMT -5
I felt like it was a "Dwayne Wade-sian" type play. Out of frustration, lets his body go, not knowing exactly what he'll hit, but seeking to cause some kind of disruption or harm.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 20, 2015 14:19:52 GMT -5
Not an issue. Contact sport. Play on.
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Post by JWallsTreBalls on Jan 20, 2015 16:13:57 GMT -5
The Hart play didn't seem dirty but I have no idea why it wasn't looked it. It seems like over the past two years we've had about half a dozen inadvertent elbow flagrants called on us, not sure why this one wasn't reviewed.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 20, 2015 17:23:07 GMT -5
The Hart play didn't seem dirty but I have no idea why it wasn't looked it. It seems like over the past two years we've had about half a dozen inadvertent elbow flagrants called on us, not sure why this one wasn't reviewed. My thoughts exactly. Refs are reviewing EVERYTHING these days with regards to hits to the head. Clearly Jabril took a shot in the head area. Just go check it out. Maybe they just assumed he got poked in the eye? Either way, I really have trouble believing this was done intentionally.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Jan 20, 2015 17:59:50 GMT -5
I think Nova wants to play a scrappy, physical game - but I think they often get chippy and borderline dirty when things aren't going their way. I wouldn't single out one player though - I think it's a team thing, obviously endorsed by Jay Wright. This - along with his constant whining to the refs - is very annoying. However he has always been a very good cheerleader for the league, and in interviews he always hypes up the other teams in the league, especially us I have to say. So I have mixed feelings about him. I also like his stubborn reliance on a man-to-man D that we are shredding.
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Post by wrestlemania on Jan 20, 2015 18:55:50 GMT -5
is this seriously a thread? Anyone who thinks that was intentional never played basketball. Or at least never played pickup at Yates Field House. I think that's where MMA came from.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jan 20, 2015 20:05:07 GMT -5
I think Nova wants to play a scrappy, physical game - but I think they often get chippy and borderline dirty when things aren't going their way. I wouldn't single out one player though - I think it's a team thing, obviously endorsed by Jay Wright.... Reading this makes me chuckle. Very easily could have been an apt description of Big John's teams -- and I loved their swagger! Villanova doesn't even come close.
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Post by detmut on Jan 20, 2015 21:22:14 GMT -5
“I just got hit in the eye,” Trawick said. “It was bothering me for a little bit, but I’m fine.”
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