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Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 5, 2015 14:12:31 GMT -5
Why do I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. Got to dream big, fellas. Can't stay sequestered in our Catholic 9+1 construction right now. Must work like the dickens to expand and build a national brand.
We can lead this emerging movement toward a hoops-first mega conference. I hope we do.
To me, VCU is a no-brainer with or without Shaka. Once in the Big East, Shaka is likely to stay longer. And if he leaves, it will be easier for VCU to attract the next Shaka. Stevens departure from Butler was a blip. They are back and recruiting well for future teams, mostly because they can sell the hoops-first Big East idea to legit recruits.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 5, 2015 14:25:02 GMT -5
Maybe, ranch, you are banging your head against a wall. Maybe if you stop for a while you'll feel better.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 5, 2015 14:30:36 GMT -5
To me, VCU is a no-brainer with or without Shaka. Once in the Big East, Shaka is likely to stay longer. And if he leaves, it will be easier for VCU to attract the next Shaka. Stevens departure from Butler was a blip. They are back and recruiting well for future teams, mostly because they can sell the hoops-first Big East idea to legit recruits. VCU without Shaka looks more like George Mason that we may want to admit. And though people want to be kind, adding Butler was a mistake in that the Big East was more interested in Brad Stevens and the two Final Fours than Butler's intrinsic strength as a program. Conference realignment isn't over yet. Not even for Georgetown, in certain scenarios.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Feb 5, 2015 14:52:13 GMT -5
Given what Chris Holtmann is getting out of his roster right now, I wouldn't be so quick to call that addition a mistake.
What was the alternative anyway, SLU?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2015 15:01:13 GMT -5
As DFW says, conference realignment is still evolving. Makes little sense to rush into expansion after less than 2 years. We need to let everything shake out and see what options exist. May be bigger options than exist right now.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 5, 2015 19:17:25 GMT -5
100% disagree. This is exactly the moment to be aggressive. You stay passive and allow things to shake out around you, you lose control and will be left standing on the sideline.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 5, 2015 19:52:24 GMT -5
100% disagree. This is exactly the moment to be aggressive. You stay passive and allow things to shake out around you, you lose control and will be left standing on the sideline. If you can deliver Shaka Smart (make him sign a long term unbreakable deal with VCU) then I'm all for letting them in.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Feb 5, 2015 20:25:33 GMT -5
Ranch, assuming VCU needs a partner and it's not going to be Gonzaga or any school with a football team, who else do you extend the invite to?
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Feb 5, 2015 20:25:47 GMT -5
100% disagree. This is exactly the moment to be aggressive. You stay passive and allow things to shake out around you, you lose control and will be left standing on the sideline. What is going to shake out around us? VCU, and every other non-FBS school bandied about as a potential add, would jump at the chance to join the Big East and there are no other options out there for those schools. Are you worried the ACC is going to grab VCU? Well, okay, but the ACC could grab VCU even if VCU were in the Big East. Look, folks, the best possible additions for this league are UCONN and Memphis. There is a slight chance (1) those schools are both left out of the next round of realignment and (2) they decide to drop football as it becomes more and more expensive to run a program under the new stipend rules (e.g., UAB). Because there is a slight chance of that happening---which I emphasize as slight---we have to wait for the next round to run its course. Adding VCU and, say, SLU probably precludes us from later adding UCONN or Memphis. Plus I don't really want a 14-team conference. And adding VCU and SLU doesn't really move the needle that much in the short term. I get having a shiny new ranked team in the conference (VCU) seems like a great idea. But the conference has to be thinking much longer term than that.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 5, 2015 20:28:31 GMT -5
100% disagree. This is exactly the moment to be aggressive. You stay passive and allow things to shake out around you, you lose control and will be left standing on the sideline. I actually agreed with this 3-4 years ago when the old version of the Big East fell apart rather than being aggressive by seeking Big 12 or ACC schools (especially when the Big 12 looked on the verge of dissolving). I really think the Big East blew it but that's the past. The reason why I felt that way 3-4 years ago was that the most aggressive actors (ACC) were bound to survive. Now that's not true. Nothing the football schools do will hugely impact us because those programs aren't coming to to the Big East and we are far and away the richest non-football school which means that we will have no problem taking on more schools when we want. Where else are they going to go? I might agree with you if we were headed toward a 2 bid outcome this year but we will almost certainly get 5 teams into the tournament and maybe more. That's hugely successful considering this is only year 2. There's no reason to mess with that.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 5, 2015 20:39:55 GMT -5
Why do I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. Got to dream big, fellas. Can't stay sequestered in our Catholic 9+1 construction right now. Must work like the dickens to expand and build a national brand. We can lead this emerging movement toward a hoops-first mega conference. I hope we do. To me, VCU is a no-brainer with or without Shaka. Once in the Big East, Shaka is likely to stay longer. And if he leaves, it will be easier for VCU to attract the next Shaka. Stevens departure from Butler was a blip. They are back and recruiting well for future teams, mostly because they can sell the hoops-first Big East idea to legit recruits. I'm with you Ranch, I've said it multiple times that VCU is worth the add regardless of Smart.. Actually I think you may be on to something with saying he's likely to stay with a move to the BE.. If VCU joins the BE their basketball program will instantly get an additional 3.65 million dollars in TV money which could help them match offers from all these so called "big" programs so many of you are scared will steal him away.. In the event Smart does leave VCU will have a lot to offer a potential coach.. Isn't there a provision in the contract with Fox about going to 12 teams? Thought it gave the league more money..
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 5, 2015 20:45:32 GMT -5
100% disagree. This is exactly the moment to be aggressive. You stay passive and allow things to shake out around you, you lose control and will be left standing on the sideline. What is going to shake out around us? VCU, and every other non-FBS school bandied about as a potential add, would jump at the chance to join the Big East and there are no other options out there for those schools. Are you worried the ACC is going to grab VCU? Well, okay, but the ACC could grab VCU even if VCU were in the Big East. Look, folks, the best possible additions for this league are UCONN and Memphis. There is a slight chance (1) those schools are both left out of the next round of realignment and (2) they decide to drop football as it becomes more and more expensive to run a program under the new stipend rules (e.g., UAB). Because there is a slight chance of that happening---which I emphasize as slight---we have to wait for the next round to run its course. Adding VCU and, say, SLU probably precludes us from later adding UCONN or Memphis. Plus I don't really want a 14-team conference. And adding VCU and SLU doesn't really move the needle that much in the short term. I get having a shiny new ranked team in the conference (VCU) seems like a great idea. But the conference has to be thinking much longer term than that. Why Memphis? is it a big TV market?
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Feb 5, 2015 21:00:57 GMT -5
What is going to shake out around us? VCU, and every other non-FBS school bandied about as a potential add, would jump at the chance to join the Big East and there are no other options out there for those schools. Are you worried the ACC is going to grab VCU? Well, okay, but the ACC could grab VCU even if VCU were in the Big East. Look, folks, the best possible additions for this league are UCONN and Memphis. There is a slight chance (1) those schools are both left out of the next round of realignment and (2) they decide to drop football as it becomes more and more expensive to run a program under the new stipend rules (e.g., UAB). Because there is a slight chance of that happening---which I emphasize as slight---we have to wait for the next round to run its course. Adding VCU and, say, SLU probably precludes us from later adding UCONN or Memphis. Plus I don't really want a 14-team conference. And adding VCU and SLU doesn't really move the needle that much in the short term. I get having a shiny new ranked team in the conference (VCU) seems like a great idea. But the conference has to be thinking much longer term than that. Why Memphis? is it a big TV market? It's a national name and has a decent market. Every other option is a mid-major except maybe VCU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 21:41:23 GMT -5
Memphis finished first in the AAC this year with a record of 10-3, won its Bowl game over BYU and ended the season ranked at #25. The new coach (Justin Fuente) was a great hire from TCU.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Feb 5, 2015 21:47:11 GMT -5
Isn't there a provision in the contract with Fox about going to 12 teams? Thought it gave the league more money.. Believe it calls for a proportionate increase - pot gets bigger but teams make the same amount. The real aim of getting more teams is to get more teams ranked and a better chance for a deep run, build the brand that way. Like it or not, the absolute number of successful teams is as, if not more, relevent to the national audience than the league's ratio of good-to-bad teams. The Big East certainly can't afford to bring on any more teams that are going be a drag on the conference, but I think adding teams that hover around 30-40 in the polls or are always on the bubble would be bad too. That fuels the narrative that we're mid-major, maybe the best collection of teams ranked 20 - 120 in the nation but not the top talent folks want to see. I mean, our own students don't even want to see a game against Xavier or Providence. Hopefully it'll come from the 10 we already have, but gotta get more ranked Top 10, advancing to the Elite 8.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 6, 2015 7:16:27 GMT -5
Add VCU and no others. What is so bad about an odd number of teams?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 6, 2015 8:03:26 GMT -5
Add VCU and no others. What is so bad about an odd number of teams? I wouldn't proactively expand at all. But if UConn came knocking on the door, I'd have to think long and hard about saying no. Sure, one of the big conferences could gobble them up in the future, but if you were completely up front about that possibility in public when they joined, it wouldn't be a PR hit if it actually happened (and you'd just go back to 10). And with 11 teams (unlike 12) you probably could still get away with a true round robin (although I admit it would be hard). I understand the reasons to not do it, I really do. But I just think what they add outweighs those (a big, enthusiastic fanbase; a now-long tradition of excellence; the ability to sell-out MSG for the BET; a traditional rivalry; a big-time program in our primary footprint). And if UConn struggles again next year and doesn't get a bid, you can be sure they'll be desperately looking to do something. Needless to say this doesn't fit what I'll call the "Ranch-if they join they'll become good--basketball-only model," and I agree that a basketball-only school would be ideal, but I just don't see a school that makes enough sense within that model to outweigh the benefits here.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 6, 2015 9:01:00 GMT -5
Add VCU and no others. What is so bad about an odd number of teams? OK, I've got to ask. What is the unnatural attraction of this board to a downtown school in Richmond with 31,000 students, an median SAT of 1000, a gym not much larger than the (former) DuPont Pavilion, and absolutely no connection to Georgetown whatsoever? Last I checked the name of the school was not Shaka Smart University--when he gets recruited away, then what? No more A-10 teams, please.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 6, 2015 9:26:57 GMT -5
Add VCU and no others. What is so bad about an odd number of teams? OK, I've got to ask. What is the unnatural attraction of this board to a downtown school in Richmond with 31,000 students, an median SAT of 1000, a gym not much larger than the (former) DuPont Pavilion, and absolutely no connection to Georgetown whatsoever? Last I checked the name of the school was not Shaka Smart University--when he gets recruited away, then what? No more A-10 teams, please. For once I can get behind what you're preaching DFW. Totally agree. Ridiculous.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 6, 2015 9:45:12 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind about VCU is that the AD that hired Capel, Grant and Smart isn't there any more--he's at Minnesota. The new AD is from Niagara. So while the school's track record with hiring new head coaches is good, its AD's track record is non-existent (literally--the head basketball coach while he was at Niagra was hired before he got there).
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