SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 26, 2015 15:25:36 GMT -5
Only reason we would need a 2015 pg is if we lost either DSR or Tre...doesn't look like that is going to happen. 2016 however is a different story. I'd still like to have another one for depth. There will only be three guards on next year's team. Tre, DSR and Peak. That is not ideal.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 26, 2015 16:47:06 GMT -5
Paul White may as well be a guard. Isaac Copeland handles the ball as well. We have plenty of guys who can handle the ball coming back next season. That's the least of what we should be worrying about. And if we get Johnson, that's another ballhandler.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 26, 2015 17:22:34 GMT -5
I think we can get away with our current guards next year--we'll have two guys capable of playing the point in DSR and Tre that have experience doing so, and Paul White can slide over to the 2 (and Johnson could as well) for spot minutes. Even an injury wouldn't kill us like it did when Chris Wright got hurt.
The bigger problem with our guard depth is in 2016, which currently only has one PG on the roster. Even with a freshman back-up, I think we've seen ample evidence in the past that foul trouble and/or injuries can wreck a team that only has one non-freshman PG (Wright's injury, the correlation b/w Markel foul trouble and Hoya losses in Otto's last year). So, ideally we can sign another point in the spring, but obviously if that point isn't going to be able to contribute more in 2016 than a freshman PG, it may not be worth signing anyone in 2015.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 26, 2015 19:14:56 GMT -5
TBird we will still have Tre, PW, LJ and Ike. Plus (fingers crossed) Kaleb. If I remember correctly the FF team had JWall, JSapp and JRivers as guards on the squad that received playing time. Jeff, Pat and DaJuan helped and things went well.
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DoctorHoya
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 26, 2015 19:25:14 GMT -5
How did the visit go?
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 26, 2015 20:36:44 GMT -5
presumably it lasts through the game tomorrow
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 26, 2015 22:41:40 GMT -5
TBird we will still have Tre, PW, LJ and Ike. Plus (fingers crossed) Kaleb. If I remember correctly the FF team had JWall, JSapp and JRivers as guards on the squad that received playing time. Jeff, Pat and DaJuan helped and things went well. That is correct hoyazeke, but we also had Tyler Crawford. He didn't get a lot of minutes, true. But at least he was available to the team could practice with two guards on each five. And, we were lucky that Sapp, Wallace and Rivers stayed healthy. As I recall, they were rarely in serious foul trouble. Can we get through next season without another guard? Sure. Should we? If we can sign another guard... who can contribute... we should.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 26, 2015 23:29:11 GMT -5
A bonus to picking up Johnson would be the quality of his teammates. Quentin Jackson is obviously a 2016 guy getting recruited at a very high level and freshman PF Ian Steere has a chance to be special.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jan 27, 2015 0:23:12 GMT -5
Just because guys dribble the ball well as 6 ft 8 and 6 ft 9 forwards, does NOT make them guards,,especially point guards. It is also entirely possible Ike develops at an OTTO-like rate and is gone after two years. We need a point guard, if not 2015 then absolutely 2016.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Jan 27, 2015 0:37:10 GMT -5
Just because guys dribble the ball well as 6 ft 8 and 6 ft 9 forwards, does NOT make them guards,,especially point guards. It is also entirely possible Ike develops at an OTTO-like rate and is gone after two years. We need a point guard, if not 2015 then absolutely 2016. I tend to agree. I'm a huge PW fan - great feel for the game and love his instincts, but I think it's a stretch to think he can run the point routinely for us. He's not Kyle Anderson, try as we might...
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 27, 2015 0:44:25 GMT -5
The 2011 team is the best reason to hope for a PG to come in next year that can turn into a capable contributor as a sophomore. When Chris Wright went down, we didn't have a point guard that could step in for him--Clark was always more of a combo, Austin was a SG and Markel wasn't ready as a freshman. A sophomore Starks instead of a freshman Starks might have been enough to keep the team from collapsing.
Alternatively, we might avoid injuries, but lose games that our PG gets in foul trouble, which was a big part of what did in the 2012-13 team--if Starks was saddled with foul trouble, things went really poorly, he fouled out in their losses to Indiana, Nova and Cuse, and I'm pretty sure his third foul against FGCU coincided with their game deciding run.
Obviously, if our 2016 class includes a Tre type player that's able to step in and contribute right away, then a PG in this class isn't as important. But, it's much more likely, based on the guards we've been able to sign recently, that we'll bring in another Sapp / Starks type--a player that can be really good, but that isn't ready to contribute a lot from Day 1.
It might not matter if Tre, Peak and PW stay out of foul trouble and don't get hurt, but it's a risk we ideally can avoid--I want a capable PG waiting to step in, and it's poor risk management if you're counting on freshman. This argument might be moot if there isn't a high major PG available now or in the spring, but hopefully we can bring one in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 0:45:15 GMT -5
It’s not like the kid has to play 30 min of PG play.. Just spot minutes. No reason Paul can’t do that. IMO
It appears the staff is more interested in replacing some of the things Aaron and Jabril give us rather than adding another point. Not a bad strategy considering there aren’t many good PG’s left with a qualifying test score.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 27, 2015 0:48:53 GMT -5
It’s not like the kid has to play 30 min of PG play.. Just spot minutes. No reason Paul can’t do that. IMO It appears the staff is more interested in replacing some of the things Aaron and Jabril give us rather than adding another point. Not a bad strategy considering there aren’t many good PG’s left with a qualifying test score. No offense but you guys are clamoring for a PG that does not exist at this point... Yeah, I realize that there might not be a PG available in 2015 worth signing / able to be signed. And really, there's two schollies--if the staff think Kaleb's worth on of those two, that's fine by me.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 27, 2015 1:20:09 GMT -5
The 2011 team is the best reason to hope for a PG to come in next year that can turn into a capable contributor as a sophomore. When Chris Wright went down, we didn't have a point guard that could step in for him--Clark was always more of a combo, Austin was a SG and Markel wasn't ready as a freshman. A sophomore Starks instead of a freshman Starks might have been enough to keep the team from collapsing. Alternatively, we might avoid injuries, but lose games that our PG gets in foul trouble, which was a big part of what did in the 2012-13 team--if Starks was saddled with foul trouble, things went really poorly, he fouled out in their losses to Indiana, Nova and Cuse, and I'm pretty sure his third foul against FGCU coincided with their game deciding run. Obviously, if our 2016 class includes a Tre type player that's able to step in and contribute right away, then a PG in this class isn't as important. But, it's much more likely, based on the guards we've been able to sign recently, that we'll bring in another Sapp / Starks type--a player that can be really good, but that isn't ready to contribute a lot from Day 1. It might not matter if Tre, Peak and PW stay out of foul trouble and don't get hurt, but it's a risk we ideally can avoid--I want a capable PG waiting to step in, and it's poor risk management if you're counting on freshman. This argument might be moot if there isn't a high major PG available now or in the spring, but hopefully we can bring one in. Bottom line ...as of next year, we have two point guards....plus several guys who can handle the ball. We will be fine. It's not like jabril is that much better with the ball then the other guys who will be handling it. Again, we will be fine. We will bring in a '16 kid who will come in and play immediately as a back up to Tre. If we brought in a '15 kid at the point...he wouldn't see the court, that simple.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 27, 2015 1:22:33 GMT -5
The 2011 team is the best reason to hope for a PG to come in next year that can turn into a capable contributor as a sophomore. When Chris Wright went down, we didn't have a point guard that could step in for him--Clark was always more of a combo, Austin was a SG and Markel wasn't ready as a freshman. A sophomore Starks instead of a freshman Starks might have been enough to keep the team from collapsing. Alternatively, we might avoid injuries, but lose games that our PG gets in foul trouble, which was a big part of what did in the 2012-13 team--if Starks was saddled with foul trouble, things went really poorly, he fouled out in their losses to Indiana, Nova and Cuse, and I'm pretty sure his third foul against FGCU coincided with their game deciding run. Obviously, if our 2016 class includes a Tre type player that's able to step in and contribute right away, then a PG in this class isn't as important. But, it's much more likely, based on the guards we've been able to sign recently, that we'll bring in another Sapp / Starks type--a player that can be really good, but that isn't ready to contribute a lot from Day 1. It might not matter if Tre, Peak and PW stay out of foul trouble and don't get hurt, but it's a risk we ideally can avoid--I want a capable PG waiting to step in, and it's poor risk management if you're counting on freshman. This argument might be moot if there isn't a high major PG available now or in the spring, but hopefully we can bring one in. Bottom line ...as of next year, we have two point guards....plus several guys who can handle the ball. We will be fine. It's not like jabril is that much better with the ball then the other guys who will be handling it. Again, we will be fine. We will bring in a '16 kid who will come in and play immediately as a back up to Tre. If we brought in a '15 kid at the point...he wouldn't see the court, that simple. Kaleb on the other hand would get quite a bit of time and play an important role. Lots of minutes are freeing up.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 27, 2015 10:00:32 GMT -5
Not sure how this discussion turned into "either or". I, for one, was not suggesting a PG recruit instead of Kaleb Johnson. From everything I've read, KJ would be a terrific addition. And maybe he can play a combo guard role too. But I still think we would be wise to add another guard this year - if we find someone who can contribute and is available. It would not be wise to waste a schollie on a kid we don't believe will contribute over his four years at GU just to add depth for one year.
I love the kids we are on for 2016, but I also loved the kids we were on this year - like Crawford, Trier, Dozier et al..... we ended up with none. Suggesting we should pass on a kid we believe can contribute for the '15/'16 season because we hope we can sign someone better a year later? Just as a reminder, both DSR and Hayes will be departing following the '15/'16 season, so there will be at least two more schollies open then.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 27, 2015 11:16:56 GMT -5
Agree with SirSaxa--we can add Kaleb and a PG (if there's one worth adding) this year, b/c while that would, as of right now, leave only DSR and Hayes' scholarships for 2016, I don't think there's a single Hoya fan that does expect 1-3 more scholarships to open up by the end of next year. Maybe Copeland and Peak go pro? Maybe we get a transfer? Not sure, but I'd be shocked if there aren't 4 scholarships available for the 2016 class, even if we sign two more for 2015.
And that's putting aside whether Trey Mourning counts as a scholarship player / has to count as a scholarship player (or if he can be considered a walk-on like McBuckets was last year)
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CaliHoya
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Post by CaliHoya on Jan 27, 2015 11:17:58 GMT -5
We should get back to talking about the Kaleb Johnson visit...
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 27, 2015 11:25:15 GMT -5
We should get back to talking about the Kaleb Johnson visit... Fair enough. From what I've read, he seems like a Bowen replacement, which would be real nice to have.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 27, 2015 12:19:53 GMT -5
Not sure how this discussion turned into "either or". I, for one, was not suggesting a PG recruit instead of Kaleb Johnson. From everything I've read, KJ would be a terrific addition. And maybe he can play a combo guard role too. But I still think we would be wise to add another guard this year - if we find someone who can contribute and is available. It would not be wise to waste a schollie on a kid we don't believe will contribute over his four years at GU just to add depth for one year. I love the kids we are on for 2016, but I also loved the kids we were on this year - like Crawford, Trier, Dozier et al..... we ended up with none. Suggesting we should pass on a kid we believe can contribute for the '15/'16 season because we hope we can sign someone better a year later? Just as a reminder, both DSR and Hayes will be departing following the '15/'16 season, so there will be at least two more schollies open then. I hear ya sirsaxa. I think at the end of the day it comes down to who is available at this point. If there is a very good PG on the board like Bracey, then yes, we'd go hard for him....but Hardnett is not the same caliber. it's pretty slim pickens at this point, so looks like we are going to hold off for now. That said, love how Kale would round out a class with Derrickson, Govan and Agau.
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