nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by nathanhm on Aug 17, 2014 5:29:46 GMT -5
The right plays the victim card all the time.
And now you're doing the exact same name calling you accuse the left of doing.
Check out Fox News or rush or Sarah, there is plenty of name calling and demonization.
Both sides get nasty with each other - that's how politics work in this country. But once we all get over our hurt feelings the issues still remain.
The Catholic Church failed in its duty to protect children, allow justice to come to child molesters, or shine any kind of light on the terrible atrocities it's leaders were performing for generations.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Aug 24, 2014 15:03:58 GMT -5
Hoyaloya has made his case point by point with fact and argument whereas your crushing response is a repetition of vague generalities unsupported by a single citation or fact.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Aug 24, 2014 16:03:26 GMT -5
Hoyaloya has made his case point by point with fact and argument whereas your crushing response is a repetition of vague generalities unsupported by a single citation or fact. Since when did there is mass anti catholic media conspiracy become a fact? Almost every "truth" spouted as fact has been disputed by prominent Catholics who are more concerned with working to improve the way things are than blaming everyone but the people responsible. Don't take my word for it: here is the National Catholic Reporter ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/vatican-abuse-summit-22-billion-and-100000-victims-us-alone
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Sept 2, 2014 17:14:47 GMT -5
If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it and you will even come to believe it yourself. Attributed to Joseph Goebbels
This appears applicable to the oft repeated but never substantiated [because it cannot be] claim that the Catholic priest scandal was pedophilia.
From the Catholic League September 2. 2014:
Bill Donohue corrects the record: An editorial in today's New York Times cites the Vatican's disciplinary action against its former ambassador to the Dominican Republic, the now-defrocked Archbishop Jozef Wesolowski. It invokes Pope Francis' promise that "in the pedophilia scandal 'there are no privileges.'" The Times erred again by repeating the myth of a pedophilia scandal: 100 percent of the victimizers were male; 81 percent of the victims were male; and 78 percent were postpubescent. That would make it a homosexual scandal. Indeed, less than 5 percent of these cases involve pedophilia. The boys the archbishop abused were teenagers, meaning that homosexuality, not pedophilia, was in play. The distinction is important.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Sept 2, 2014 18:35:14 GMT -5
If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it and you will even come to believe it yourself. Attributed to Joseph Goebbels This appears applicable to the oft repeated but never substantiated [because it cannot be] claim that the Catholic priest scandal was pedophilia. From the Catholic League September 2. 2014: Bill Donohue corrects the record: An editorial in today's New York Times cites the Vatican's disciplinary action against its former ambassador to the Dominican Republic, the now-defrocked Archbishop Jozef Wesolowski. It invokes Pope Francis' promise that "in the pedophilia scandal 'there are no privileges.'" The Times erred again by repeating the myth of a pedophilia scandal: 100 percent of the victimizers were male; 81 percent of the victims were male; and 78 percent were postpubescent. That would make it a homosexual scandal. Indeed, less than 5 percent of these cases involve pedophilia. The boys the archbishop abused were teenagers, meaning that homosexuality, not pedophilia, was in play. The distinction is important. So just to clarify if you had sex with a 14 year old girl it wouldn't make you a pedophile as long as she'd had her period? I get your boy bill Donohue is all about blaming this on gays but the crazy thing is the Pope doesn't seem to agree. Now I'm not Catholic so maybe I'm misinformed but seems like Pope trumps catholic league prez, please correct me if I'm misinformed. Here is what the Pope has said: 2% of clergy are pedophiles, which translates to over 8,000 clergy. Explain to me how that isn't a pedophilia crisis?
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Sept 2, 2014 20:13:53 GMT -5
Please cite your sources
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Sept 2, 2014 20:53:04 GMT -5
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 2, 2014 21:00:14 GMT -5
Can we compromise and call it a "Rape Scandal (not homosexual - 19% female is not a rounding error) with a significant pedophilia component"?
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Sept 3, 2014 7:19:17 GMT -5
Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children.www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/pedophiliaThank you for the cites. Will check them out. Richard M. Coleman Georgetown A.B. '57. LL.M.'61[/font]
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Sept 3, 2014 19:23:27 GMT -5
Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children.www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/pedophiliaThank you for the cites. Will check them out. Richard M. Coleman Georgetown A.B. '57. LL.M.'61 How dare you call all of the molesters pedophiles. Not all of the molesters were pedophiles. SMH.
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hoyaloya
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Post by hoyaloya on Sept 4, 2014 5:53:56 GMT -5
Nathanhm: Again thank you for providing the 3 sites on which you relied: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28282050www.washingtonpost.com/local/some-say-popes-reported-claim-that-2-percent-of-priests-are-pedophiles-is-low/2014/07/14/c61733a4-0b5e-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.htmlwww.reuters.com/article/2014/07/13/us-pope-abuse-idUSKBN0FI0R020140713I opened all three and found that each referenced the same thing, a July interview with Pope Francis in which the author of the piece quoted the Pope as saying: "Among the 2% who are paedophiles are priests, bishops and cardinals.”
One of the sites referenced 2 other sites which you did not call to our attention. Those sites are: www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vatican-disputes-claim-pope-told-interviewer-2-of-priests-are-paedophiles-9605058.htmlwww.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/14/pope-francis-priests-paedophiles-la-repubblicaThere I discovered that the quote is disputed and the author had not recorded it. I also learned that the author is one Eugenio Scalfari, a 90 year old self- professed atheist with a history of allegedly misquoting the Pope. Regarding what the Vatican termed an “analogous” earlier incident, The Guardian stated this: “Questioned by fellow journalists, Scalfari was unable to mount a convincing defence, conceding he had not bothered to take notes during the interview, let alone record it. It was very possible, he added, that ‘some of the pope's words I reported were not shared by Pope Francis’".In the articles cited, the term pedophilia is used broadly, including both prepubescent and postpubescent victims, which does justify your use of the term in the same manner. The question remains whether it is useful to distinguish between those two classes of victims, as in the definition from Psychology Today cited above. Since Psychology and Psychiatry make distinctions between the classes of victims, the statistics cited by the Catholic League are relevant: “. … less than 5 percent of these cases involve pedophilia.”
Richard M. Coleman Georgetown A.B. '57. LL.M.'61
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Sept 4, 2014 9:18:12 GMT -5
You can split hairs all you want as though adult men raping 11-14 year old boys is a homosexuality issue and not a pedophilia issue but outside of the Catholic League, no one else is making that argument. In fact I can't find a single Catholic official on record making that argument.
By your same logic any time a man rapes a post-prebescent girl it must be a hetrosexuality issue. Do you blame all the male middle school teachers who rape their female students as a hetrosexuality issue?
These priests are evil and sick and your desire to somehow need to point the blame at gays is baffling. If you don't want to call them pedophiles than call them child rapists. Pointing the issue at gays is inherently dishonest.
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pertinax
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Post by pertinax on Sept 6, 2014 13:43:58 GMT -5
Citing facts is not splitting hairs.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Sept 6, 2014 15:40:07 GMT -5
Blaming gays for child rape isn't a fact. Arguing the dictionary definition vs the medical definition of a word as an excuse to continually cite a fringe viewpoint isn't fact. These are viewpoints.
I keep hearing from your side to cite facts but your side only cites the same source (the catholic league) and like I challenged before provide me some examples where the Church has agreed with any of these viewpoints.
If you all really believe this argument that a man raping a 12 year old boy is a gay issue than you would also agree that a male teacher raping a 12 year old girl is a straight issue. State it for the record.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 7, 2014 21:59:55 GMT -5
The one time I ate at Filomena, I thought the food was delicious, and the check was exactly as expected. No fraud whatsoever.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 8, 2014 7:53:13 GMT -5
The one time I ate at Filomena, I thought the food was delicious, and the check was exactly as expected. No fraud whatsoever. This is the biggest crock I have ever read on this board. Filomena is overrated and overpriced! It is a complete mockery of authentic Italian cuisine. I'd practically rather eat at Olive Garden. All due respect, strummer, but your point is completely invalid, you are an utter troll, and you and your progeny should be ashamed of yourselves for all eternity.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 8, 2014 17:49:04 GMT -5
The one time I ate at Filomena, I thought the food was delicious, and the check was exactly as expected. No fraud whatsoever. All due respect, strummer, but your point is completely invalid, you are an utter troll, and you and your progeny should be ashamed of yourselves for all eternity. Pure ad hominem with no fact refutation whatsoever. It's like you didn't even take the logic seminar that was a required part of the College's curriculum in 1958.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Sept 8, 2014 18:28:25 GMT -5
All due respect, strummer, but your point is completely invalid, you are an utter troll, and you and your progeny should be ashamed of yourselves for all eternity. Pure ad hominem with no fact refutation whatsoever. It's like you didn't even take the logic seminar that was a required part of the College's curriculum in 1958. Invective!!
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Sept 8, 2014 20:28:15 GMT -5
The one time I ate at Filomena, I thought the food was delicious, and the check was exactly as expected. No fraud whatsoever. This is the biggest crock I have ever read on this board. Filomena is overrated and overpriced! It is a complete mockery of authentic Italian cuisine. I'd practically rather eat at Olive Garden. All due respect, strummer, but your point is completely invalid, you are an utter troll, and you and your progeny should be ashamed of yourselves for all eternity. I got lost in your analogy. Is the Olive Garden supposed to represent gay priests or the episcopal church? It probably would have been clearer if you had cited your sources...
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Sept 8, 2014 20:31:36 GMT -5
I thought the Olive Garden was abortion.
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