hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445 
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Post by hoya95 on Jun 3, 2014 13:31:50 GMT -5
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 4, 2014 6:56:21 GMT -5
It must have been the media who neglected those kids and threw them in the septic tank after they died. Always trying to make the Church look bad. |
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 4, 2014 12:29:37 GMT -5
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 4, 2014 23:31:55 GMT -5
This thread is a great reminder of how despicable and straight crazy hoyaloya's rants on this site are.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 5, 2014 18:54:05 GMT -5
Probably there are some of these around the world where there is an abusive priest still functioning as a priest but please don't say the Church is still moving and protecting them. I think the Church is making a real effort to rid itself of this sort of thing and, while loudly condemning what it did in the past, should be given credit for its efforts to change. I recognize the discovery of the bodies in Ireland is a tragic reminder of how bad it was, so please don't think I, for one, am trying to sweep this under the rug with the above comment. |
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 5, 2014 21:07:55 GMT -5
Nope, no credit is due at all. As long as stories like the above continue to turn up and as long as Bernard Law is protected in the Vatican, there is absolutely no reason to think the church is doing anything more than paying lip service to the problem.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,314
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Post by tashoya on Jun 6, 2014 7:42:07 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying EasyEd and I hope you're right about making a real effort to fix the issues. It's difficult to find good news on any topic much less a religious organization. That said, they deserve zero credit for doing what should have been done from the beginning.
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,603
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Post by hoyatables on Jun 6, 2014 14:09:37 GMT -5
Everyone is deserving of forgiveness.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,645
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Post by seaweed on Jun 6, 2014 15:32:15 GMT -5
Forgiveness does not come from the people on your own team but from those you hurt. And it only comes when you show repentance, which Law has not done. Sorry tables, but that high road is closed till then.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,314
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Post by tashoya on Jun 7, 2014 21:26:26 GMT -5
I agree with seaweed. And there's a difference between forgiveness and credit. It's going to be a long road still. We're not talking about a lack of oversight or administrative control or some minor infractions or transgressions. We're talking about institutionally-aided atrocities and hypocrisy by an organization that espouses itself as being a beacon of moral behavior worth following. And, if they're "loudly condemning" their past actions, how many of the implicated priests have gone to jail?
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DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,630
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Post by DallasHoya on Jun 21, 2014 17:15:58 GMT -5
It must have been the media who neglected those kids and threw them in the septic tank after they died. Always trying to make the Church look bad. From the other than that, the story was correct department: DUBLIN (AP) — In stories published June 3 and June 8 about young children buried in unmarked graves after dying at a former Irish orphanage for the children of unwed mothers, The Associated Press incorrectly reported that the children had not received Roman Catholic baptisms; documents show that many children at the orphanage were baptized. The AP also incorrectly reported that Catholic teaching at the time was to deny baptism and Christian burial to the children of unwed mothers; although that may have occurred in practice at times it was not church teaching. In addition, in the June 3 story, the AP quoted a researcher who said she believed that most of the remains of children who died there were interred in a disused septic tank; the researcher has since clarified that without excavation and forensic analysis it is impossible to know how many sets of remains the tank contains, if any. The June 3 story also contained an incorrect reference to the year that the orphanage opened; it was 1925, not 1926. americamagazine.org/content/all-things/associated-press-issues-correction-based-america-query |
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,645
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Post by seaweed on Jun 21, 2014 17:39:59 GMT -5
It must have been the media who neglected those kids and threw them in the septic tank after they died. Always trying to make the Church look bad. From the other than that, the story was correct department: DUBLIN (AP) — In stories published June 3 and June 8 about young children buried in unmarked graves after dying at a former Irish orphanage for the children of unwed mothers, The Associated Press incorrectly reported that the children had not received Roman Catholic baptisms; documents show that many children at the orphanage were baptized. The AP also incorrectly reported that Catholic teaching at the time was to deny baptism and Christian burial to the children of unwed mothers; although that may have occurred in practice at times it was not church teaching. In addition, in the June 3 story, the AP quoted a researcher who said she believed that most of the remains of children who died there were interred in a disused septic tank; the researcher has since clarified that without excavation and forensic analysis it is impossible to know how many sets of remains the tank contains, if any. The June 3 story also contained an incorrect reference to the year that the orphanage opened; it was 1925, not 1926. americamagazine.org/content/all-things/associated-press-issues-correction-based-america-queryWell then it is all OK. I mean, especially that detail about the year it opened - that distinction makes all the ensuing actions blameless. Fretting the corrections raises the question, how many baptized kids in a septic tank is OK, and is it fewer or more than un-baptized kids? |
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hoyaloya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 156
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Post by hoyaloya on Jun 22, 2014 16:49:03 GMT -5
Few of the facts in the opening post were contested. As Easy Ed predicted early on, more than 2 dozen posts consisted of invective, rather than analysis, and several revealed lack of awareness of the definition of pedophilia. So it was somewhat encouraging to see a recent attempt at factual refutation. However, perhaps a source other than the Washington Post should be found. [not Al Jazeera which also ran with the Post version.] Please see www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-the-trouble-with-the-septic-tank-story-1.1823393?page=1There the source of the Post story, Catherine Corliss, is interviewed: “I never said to anyone that 800 bodies were dumped in a septic tank. That did not come from me at any point.” 796 children, most of them infants, died between 1925 and 1961, the 36 years that the home, run by Bon Secours, existed … publicly available death certificates [showed] the children … as having died variously of tuberculosis, convulsions, measles, whooping cough, influenza, bronchitis and meningitis, among other illnesses. Their numbers are a stark reflection of a period in Ireland when infant mortality in general was very much higher than today, particularly in institutions, where infection spread rapidly” Corliss wrote in her article about hearing of boys who, in 1975, came upon a sort of crypt in the ground, and on peering in saw several small skulls. One of those boys was located. “But there was no way there were 800 skeletons down that hole. Nothing like that number. I don’t know where the papers got that.” How many skeletons does he believe there were? “About 20.” It is not surprising that the mass media speedily spread the Post version. It is disappointing that Georgetown graduates joined in so readily. As to “OH. SO. SPOT. ON”, I submit that making a partisan post in a forum of which one is the moderator is a conflict of interest and a contradiction in terms It is tantamount to a referee joining one fighter in punching his opponent. I commend to everyone’s attention www.inprogressweb.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/11/10-Rules-for-Being-a-Great-Moderator.pdfRule 1 states in pertinent part: “Be neutral and objective: as a moderator you are not supposed to participate in the discussion or share your own views, but to be an objective, impartial voice. If you have a lot of things to say, then you should be part of the panel, and not the moderator. You have every right to have an opinion. If you put it on the table, however, you would be taking sides.” Finally, for an interesting example of the opening post’s assertion concerning progressive/liberal control over even elementary school education, please see townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2014/06/19/jesus-republicans-and-nra-banned-on-school-website-n1853605/page/full |
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 22, 2014 22:05:37 GMT -5
Stop spamming the board accusing people of "invective"
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,603
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Post by hoyatables on Jun 24, 2014 21:23:41 GMT -5
Get over this crap about the moderators. They've done a herculean job of creating and maintaining this forum for communication, and they have the same right to participate and enjoy as anyone else. When they post as individuals, they do just that. When they post as moderators, they use the admin name and make it clear they are doing so as moderators. The rest of us get that. Why can't you?
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,314
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Post by tashoya on Jun 24, 2014 23:28:28 GMT -5
Hoyatables, that sounds like invective to me. Ero, eris, erit, erimus, eritis, erunt.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,645
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Post by seaweed on Jun 25, 2014 8:16:16 GMT -5
I will admit that I "invective" church abuses
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Post by rustyshackleford on Jun 25, 2014 16:09:47 GMT -5
From the other than that, the story was correct department: DUBLIN (AP) — In stories published June 3 and June 8 about young children buried in unmarked graves after dying at a former Irish orphanage for the children of unwed mothers, The Associated Press incorrectly reported that the children had not received Roman Catholic baptisms; documents show that many children at the orphanage were baptized. The AP also incorrectly reported that Catholic teaching at the time was to deny baptism and Christian burial to the children of unwed mothers; although that may have occurred in practice at times it was not church teaching. In addition, in the June 3 story, the AP quoted a researcher who said she believed that most of the remains of children who died there were interred in a disused septic tank; the researcher has since clarified that without excavation and forensic analysis it is impossible to know how many sets of remains the tank contains, if any. The June 3 story also contained an incorrect reference to the year that the orphanage opened; it was 1925, not 1926. americamagazine.org/content/all-things/associated-press-issues-correction-based-america-queryWell then it is all OK. I mean, especially that detail about the year it opened - that distinction makes all the ensuing actions blameless. Fretting the corrections raises the question, how many baptized kids in a septic tank is OK, and is it fewer or more than un-baptized kids? What an embarrassment by the AP. None of that absolves the church from their other scandals, homophobia, or past history of persecution but it's amazing how much it takes some of the people here to acknowledge when a particular bit of news does turn out to be wrong. |
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Jul 7, 2014 9:16:42 GMT -5
Probably there are some of these around the world where there is an abusive priest still functioning as a priest but please don't say the Church is still moving and protecting them. I think the Church is making a real effort to rid itself of this sort of thing and, while loudly condemning what it did in the past, should be given credit for its efforts to change. Question - if the church is trying so hard to make things right, why are they refusing to cooperate with the official inquiry in Australia? www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-05/vatican-wont-give-all-child-abuse-documents-royal-commission/5574192 |
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hoyaloya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 156
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Post by hoyaloya on Aug 17, 2014 0:48:25 GMT -5
When I posted the facts exposing yet another Philomena fraud - the “800 babies in the septic tank” story – I commented “It is not surprising that the mass media speedily spread the Post version. It is disappointing that Georgetown graduates joined in so readily. “
In checking the site, after 8 weeks, I found no apologies or expression of remorse from the posters who spread the false story. Rather the invective and ad hominem attacks continued.
Adam Bellow editor at Harper Collins recently wrote:
The Left has always demonized conservatives… Those who cannot win an argument often fall back on ad hominem attacks. … Those who dissent from the prevailing liberal dogma are quickly branded as extremists and declared to be bad people. Do you support the traditional view of marriage? You’re a homophobe who wants to deny equal rights to gay Americans. … Do you believe a human fetus has legal and natural rights? You are a misogynist who wants to control women’s bodies. …Do you oppose any aspect of Barack Obama’s transformative agenda for America? You’re a racist, racist, racist!”
At least, the media do not attack anonymously but identify themselves.
Richard M. Coleman
Georgetown AB ’57; LL.M. ‘61
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