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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Jun 13, 2016 16:13:09 GMT -5
And maybe like a lot of kids he simply wanted to get away from home for his college experience. Picked a strong team, great city and will be playing in the ACC on television every week. Hard to argue with his choice. From the Hoya's perspective, I am actually relieved. I was never convinced that he was going to unilaterally turn things around and I am still a proponent of bigger and taller guards, even if this kid was truly amazing. I also like the bigger guards, 6-3/ 6-5 type with wheels and if we could just get one in the NBA it would open up doors in regards to our recruiting.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jun 13, 2016 16:33:20 GMT -5
Although I never underestimate the value--both real and perceived--of highly ranked recruits, it does occur to me that some of the lower ranked "hidden gems" have been extremely valuable assets to the Hoyas and other schools. Recently, Jabril Trawick was an essential part of the Hoya success in going to the tournament and overall contributed as much or more than much higher ranked recruits.
The loss of a highly valued guard who was apparently a priority is nothing to dismiss, but this team has plenty of time left. Besides, in only a handful of years--3 seasons ago comes to mind--have the Hoyas not been competitive from a talent perspective. Most of the trouble has been injury, suspension and failure to develop talented players as quickly as expected. Some of that could be coaching, but it could just as easily be that a kid does not put in the work, changes priorities or simply levels off.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 13, 2016 16:36:17 GMT -5
Just a continuation of our poor recruiting efforts. Given our coaching deficiencies, we need to recruit at a top 10 level to have the talent to overcome it. Instead, we can't even land fringe top-100 kids in our backyard. How was our recruiting effort poor? Please provide specifics of what the coaches actually did wrong.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 13, 2016 17:01:57 GMT -5
Just a continuation of our poor recruiting efforts. Given our coaching deficiencies, we need to recruit at a top 10 level to have the talent to overcome it. Instead, we can't even land fringe top-100 kids in our backyard. How was our recruiting effort poor? Please provide specifics of what the coaches actually did wrong. I don't think he's saying the staffs recruitment of Lykes was poor, he's saying the staffs continued failure to land lead/ball handling type guards has been poor.. That's how it read to me anyway..
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 14, 2016 0:08:57 GMT -5
2003, I feel like we are always pointing to the "next" recruiting class though. Our rising junior and sophomore class are really strong and even though we will likely lose pieces, they should carry us for two more years. The pipeline needs to be more balanced though. That is how Nova has gotten to where they are by bringing in steady groups that fit their profile. Oh, I totally agree with you. I absolutely have not given up on the class of 2017. I think we very much have the opportunity to add a few more pieces in addition to Tyler Foster (I realize he's not a Lykes style PG, but people seem to sometimes forget we already have a guard committed in the class of 2017). I would love a solid three person class like the rising sophomores (Johnson, Govan, Derrickson). I agree it's hugely important to get some good talent in the class of 2017, and as Yaboy pointed out, most of them are uncommitted, so there is plenty of work to do here. Given the recent change in the coaching staff, I do think we are probably a bit behind where we otherwise would be, but Solomon especially has a ton of experience, and I imagine he will use his previous efforts to get us in on some people that had otherwise been off the radar, in addition to the work already being done by JT3, Broadus, and also Waheed. The only reason I specifically mentioned 2018 is because it seems like it will be a larger class and we will be losing more potentially, so that'll be a key year for filling the coffers. But, I absolutely do not think that missing Lykes means we look to 2018. There's way too much time left in the class of 2017 period for us to give up now.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 14, 2016 9:22:59 GMT -5
And maybe like a lot of kids he simply wanted to get away from home for his college experience. Picked a strong team, great city and will be playing in the ACC on television every week. Hard to argue with his choice. From the Hoya's perspective, I am actually relieved. I was never convinced that he was going to unilaterally turn things around and I am still a proponent of bigger and taller guards, even if this kid was truly amazing. I also like the bigger guards, 6-3/ 6-5 type with wheels and if we could just get one in the NBA it would open up doors in regards to our recruiting. Fingers crossed Mulmore is our first guard that gets more than a cup of coffee in the NBA. Among the many reasons why it sucks Chris Wright got MS, is that it's one of the biggest reason he didn't get the same kind of opportunities that Hollis, Henry and Summers did.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jun 14, 2016 10:12:04 GMT -5
I also like the bigger guards, 6-3/ 6-5 type with wheels and if we could just get one in the NBA it would open up doors in regards to our recruiting. Fingers crossed Mulmore is our first guard that gets more than a cup of coffee in the NBA. Among the many reasons why it sucks Chris Wright got MS, is that it's one of the biggest reason he didn't get the same kind of opportunities that Hollis, Henry and Summers did. Oh come on. Hollis, Henry and Summers all had one thing that Wright does not---height. Wright was a small guard who while very good in college, never really developed nor rose to the McD levels he was projected to (although to be fair, perhaps the MS had something to do with that too). Wright didn't get a shot because in order to make it as a 6'1" guard in the NBA you have to be beyond incredible in college. The MS was unfortunate, and may have kept him from getting a second look, but frankly Wright was not all that better in college than was Markel, and Markel with no illness present, didn't even get a sniff. The reality is that JTIII has put exactly zero guards (excluding wings) into the NBA. Maybe Solomon is the magic ingredient to actually develop guards here, but at the moment I would say without a doubt smaller guards with high ceilings are staying away.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 14, 2016 11:09:43 GMT -5
Fingers crossed Mulmore is our first guard that gets more than a cup of coffee in the NBA. Among the many reasons why it sucks Chris Wright got MS, is that it's one of the biggest reason he didn't get the same kind of opportunities that Hollis, Henry and Summers did. Oh come on. Hollis, Henry and Summers all had one thing that Wright does not---height. Wright was a small guard who while very good in college, never really developed nor rose to the McD levels he was projected to (although to be fair, perhaps the MS had something to do with that too). Wright didn't get a shot because in order to make it as a 6'1" guard in the NBA you have to be beyond incredible in college. The MS was unfortunate, and may have kept him from getting a second look, but frankly Wright was not all that better in college than was Markel, and Markel with no illness present, didn't even get a sniff. The reality is that JTIII has put exactly zero guards (excluding wings) into the NBA. Maybe Solomon is the magic ingredient to actually develop guards here, but at the moment I would say without a doubt smaller guards with high ceilings are staying away. Umm...except the Princeton kind of held him back, which is evident by his substantial improvement after leaving college. That, and the fact that he was a top producer at the PG position in the D-League? He absolutely had ability, and much more NBA potential than any other guard we've recently had at that position really. Chris was a totally different/better player even two years out. Ty Lawson-lite.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 14, 2016 11:39:26 GMT -5
Oh come on. Hollis, Henry and Summers all had one thing that Wright does not---height. Wright was a small guard who while very good in college, never really developed nor rose to the McD levels he was projected to (although to be fair, perhaps the MS had something to do with that too). Wright didn't get a shot because in order to make it as a 6'1" guard in the NBA you have to be beyond incredible in college. The MS was unfortunate, and may have kept him from getting a second look, but frankly Wright was not all that better in college than was Markel, and Markel with no illness present, didn't even get a sniff. The reality is that JTIII has put exactly zero guards (excluding wings) into the NBA. Maybe Solomon is the magic ingredient to actually develop guards here, but at the moment I would say without a doubt smaller guards with high ceilings are staying away. Umm...except the Princeton kind of held him back, which is evident by his substantial improvement after leaving college. That, and the fact that he was a top producer at the PG position in the D-League? He absolutely had ability, and much more NBA potential than any other guard we've recently had at that position really. Chris was a totally different/better player even two years out. Ty Lawson-lite. IMO, his improvement was a natural progression and had more to do with the fact that basketball became his full time job rather than any perceived disadvantages of the offense we run.
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jld
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Post by jld on Jun 14, 2016 11:49:46 GMT -5
Not heartbroken about Lykes' decision. It will take some time for the new staff to make contact/connections.
We do need a PG for 2017 -- the Washington kid from St. Raymond's?
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jun 14, 2016 11:54:07 GMT -5
Oh come on. Hollis, Henry and Summers all had one thing that Wright does not---height. Wright was a small guard who while very good in college, never really developed nor rose to the McD levels he was projected to (although to be fair, perhaps the MS had something to do with that too). Wright didn't get a shot because in order to make it as a 6'1" guard in the NBA you have to be beyond incredible in college. The MS was unfortunate, and may have kept him from getting a second look, but frankly Wright was not all that better in college than was Markel, and Markel with no illness present, didn't even get a sniff. The reality is that JTIII has put exactly zero guards (excluding wings) into the NBA. Maybe Solomon is the magic ingredient to actually develop guards here, but at the moment I would say without a doubt smaller guards with high ceilings are staying away. Umm...except the Princeton kind of held him back, which is evident by his substantial improvement after leaving college. That, and the fact that he was a top producer at the PG position in the D-League? He absolutely had ability, and much more NBA potential than any other guard we've recently had at that position really. Chris was a totally different/better player even two years out. Ty Lawson-lite. Ok fine, that doesn't contradict my point, which was that his time in college did not turn him into an NBA-ready talent. And as such, JTIII has not sent a single guard to the NBA.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jun 14, 2016 11:55:03 GMT -5
Not heartbroken about Lykes' decision. It will take some time for the new staff to make contact/connections. We do need a PG for 2017 -- the Washington kid from St. Raymond's? I would hope we aren't starting from square one in the PG hunt.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 14, 2016 13:36:16 GMT -5
It always amazes me when people focus on former players (like Chris Wright), talk about how they improve after they graduate, and somehow act like this indicates that somehow it's Georgetown's fault, the coaching staff's fault, etc. By nature of the game and athleticism, college basketball players are rarely, if ever, at their peak form when they are 21 or so and leave college (or younger if they leave sooner).
Granted, some schools are easier than others (ahem...UNC..ahem), but until players leave school, their 100% focus is not on basketball, nor should it be. Thus, it completely makes sense when players graduate, focus entirely on basketball, and they get better. Not to mention, players physically mature as part of the natural aging process, and that often makes them better too. (Though in Wright's case, I would note that even any improvement he saw wasn't enough to stick in the NBA.)
That's why I never understood why people got so upset when Josh Smith got in better shape after he left college (again, at least so far, not good enough to be in the NBA), and why Austin Freeman got in better shape after he graduated. I don't view that as an indictment of the program, but rather natural progression. I am sure if you looked at the players graduating from Kentucky, UNC, Duke, etc., that they are likely much better a few years out of college too.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Jun 14, 2016 14:37:34 GMT -5
The focus is because for players that have dreams of going pro, their major concerns are development and having a platform to show off that development to scouts. Whether we like it or not, and whether its entirely true or not, the perception is that JTIII does not develop guards nor does he give them a platform to display their talents.
Of course players continue to develop after college (Mr. Strawman says hello). Its how they develop while in college that is relevant here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 15:11:42 GMT -5
Meh none of the guards we have had on our roster fit the profile of an NBA guard... Maybe Jabril physically but other than that not a one by physical profile would get scouts giddy..
Chris didn't suddenly become a true point guard as soon as he left Gtown in his 1st year in the DLeague. You saw that turn his Senior year. I think people are forgetiing how good he was that year tbh. We had run off 9 straight in the BE before he got hurt and he was the main reason why. He was our best player and if he didn't get hurt and we made a deep run he would have probably got looks. Add in the lockout that year and it is what it is... Imo LJ is the first guard (Converted) we've had here that looks like he could end up an NBA player is he continues to shore up his deficiencies.
On a side note NBA guard thing is kind of overrated imo because we're a college team. So we really need to land good college guards. Arch isn't going to play in the NBA. Peyton Siva isn't an NBA guard either, he got looks based on team success but didn't last long. Plenty of teams win big without NBA guards. I'll say again the closing the gap in talent evaluation skills between the priority recruit and the backup recruit is more important imo..
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 14, 2016 15:53:06 GMT -5
Meh none of the guards we have had on our roster fit the profile of an NBA guard... Maybe Jabril physically but other than that not a one by physical profile would get scouts giddy.. Chris didn't suddenly become a true point guard as soon as he left Gtown in his 1st year in the DLeague. You saw that turn his Senior year. I think people are forgetiing how good he was that year tbh. We had run off 9 straight in the BE before he got hurt and he was the main reason why. He was our best player and if he didn't get hurt and we made a deep run he would have probably got looks. Add in the lockout that year and it is what it is... Imo LJ is the first guard (Converted) we've had here that looks like he could end up an NBA player is he continues to shore up his deficiencies. On a side note NBA guard thing is kind of overrated imo because we're a college team. So we really need to land good college guards. Arch isn't going to play in the NBA. Peyton Siva isn't an NBA guard either, he got looks based on team success but didn't last long. Plenty of teams win big without NBA guards. I'll say again the closing the gap in talent evaluation skills between the priority recruit and the backup recruit is more important imo.. At this point it seems players like Arch or Siva are long shots to come to Gtown, both were well regarded coming out of HS.. Right now though they have to develop the skill of actually building a list of 2ndary targets, hard to close the gap you speak of when there aren't any players to compare to.. When I say they, I'm talking about JT3 & Broadus..
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 14, 2016 15:54:24 GMT -5
My therapist has allowed me to return to posting after a mandatory 48 plus consecutive hours of deep deep therapy sessions to get over Lykes not becoming a Hoya out of high school. While I am obviously disappointed (to say the least), I do understand his decision. When it comes to recruiting, high school kids these days only really look at programs in a 3-4 year recruiting window at the most (their time in high school). Every high major high school kid has it in their mind they are going to play in the Association. Most kids also want (probably more then winning) to be put on a stage to make it to the NBA as fast as possible. So with all that in mind, kids want to go to a school that they believe will allow them to play against great competition, shine while doing so, has won enough in their 3-4 year window they have been paying attention and most importantly the program has shown that they can get a player similar to them to the NBA. That's why JT3 was able to get an Isacc Copeland and a Paul White because of the success of a Otto Porter. If your a high school kid and you look at those aspects then University of Miami was the obvious choice for Lykes. In Lykes 3 years of high school (recruiting window) Miami has won the ACC regular season and tournament, made 2 sweet 16's in the NCAA's, their PG's who are smallish in stature like Lykes was arguably the best player on those teams which lead to 1 of the 2 PG's, Shane Larkin becoming the 18th overall pick in his draft class. None of the other schools/programs who were actively recruiting him could demonstrate the same advantages.
I don't give any credence to the belief that we didn't fit Lykes style of play. His high school team primarily runs a Princeton offense and he has obviously excelled in the offense. I don't give any credence to the belief he needed to play in an uptempo style to be successful because his Team Takeover team has been primarily a half court team. Neither Gonzaga or TTO run a ton of pick n roll and he has still excelled. Do you know where pick n roll is a primary usage of every team? The NBA! Lykes stated he picked Miami in part because of pick n roll being a huge part of U of Miami's offense.
For all those reasons, I can't be mad at Lykes decision to commit to UM. The last 3 years, the Hoyas have missed the Tournament twice, we haven't had good PG play in the last 2 seasons since Markell Starks graduated, and unfortunately JT3 hasn't put a PG in the association. It was a lot to ask of a 17 year old to trust that the entire offense is changing without seeing it and make a blind decision of faith is unrealistic. My only disappointment was that Lykes to our knowledge didn't take the time to meet with the new staff and listen to their vision. I do however given the listed criteria for how kids make their decisions, with the number 1 goal of every high major kid is to make it to the Association, I see how he came to the conclusion that Miami was the best fit for him.
It is also very painful for me that he picked U of Miami on a personal level as I know members of their basketball staff and athletic department personally, have met and talked with Larranaga on a couple of occasions. Larranaga is a very nice man and has worked very hard and deserves his recent successes. I have had to eat crow the last couple days as a couple of the coaches/staff have reached out to me and rubbed in my face. They told me back in November they were going to get Lykes and I kind of laughed at him. I really believed throughout the season Lykes would be a Hoya because of our desperate need for a true PG but I never looked at it from Lykes perspective until he committed to U of Miami.
I will say that while I'm heavily disappointed that Lykes won't be a Hoya because I believe he's a unique college basketball PG that can really excel in the freedom of movement era. I do think that Mulmore will be an outstanding stop gap at the position over the next 2 seasons and he will surprise a ton of people this season. I also think that Lykes not committing could open the door for Jagan Mosely to develop into the position as a backup PG over the next 2 seasons playing behind Mulmore. Mulmore and Mosely both have preferred pro size, length and athleticism for the position. If Jagan can transition into the PG position which I believe he can because he has great court vision, athleticism, can get to the rim and finish through contact as well as make perimeter shots, we should be fine over the next 2 seasons and we could really focus in on the 18 class which looks to be a deeper class at the PG position. That will allow for the program to get some of the stink from this past season off the program with hopefully a very successful 2016-2017 season and show kids how the style of play has changed. Ultimately though we won't get elite PG's until we put 1 in the 1st round of the draft/has success in the association. Hopefully our M&M PG's Mulmore & Mosely will both one day have those successes.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jun 14, 2016 16:24:44 GMT -5
I must say I made the right decision in terms of following Mr Lykes recruitment on HT. After 2 or 3 years of non-stop raised hopes and disappointments in the recruiting of PG's, I actually decided to avoid the Lykes thread completely. I literally did not even peak at it one time, despite 44 pages in length, convinced it was bad luck. Well, it turns out I was not bad luck, but I was saved the aggravation and therapy bills, many others are feeling. Hopefully, Mullamore will be a great, penetrating, creator at the position, and we can begin to get some strong HS PG's again.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 14, 2016 16:33:35 GMT -5
I must say I made the right decision in terms of following Mr Lykes recruitment on HT. After 2 or 3 years of non-stop raised hopes and disappointments in the recruiting of PG's, I actually decided to avoid the Lykes thread completely. I literally did not even peak at it one time, despite 44 pages in length, convinced it was bad luck. Well, it turns out I was not bad luck, but I was saved the aggravation and therapy bills, many others are feeling. Hopefully, Mullamore will be a great, penetrating, creator at the position, and we can begin to get some strong HS PG's again. May I recommend the Tre Campbell thread???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 16:57:35 GMT -5
Meh none of the guards we have had on our roster fit the profile of an NBA guard... Maybe Jabril physically but other than that not a one by physical profile would get scouts giddy.. Chris didn't suddenly become a true point guard as soon as he left Gtown in his 1st year in the DLeague. You saw that turn his Senior year. I think people are forgetiing how good he was that year tbh. We had run off 9 straight in the BE before he got hurt and he was the main reason why. He was our best player and if he didn't get hurt and we made a deep run he would have probably got looks. Add in the lockout that year and it is what it is... Imo LJ is the first guard (Converted) we've had here that looks like he could end up an NBA player is he continues to shore up his deficiencies. On a side note NBA guard thing is kind of overrated imo because we're a college team. So we really need to land good college guards. Arch isn't going to play in the NBA. Peyton Siva isn't an NBA guard either, he got looks based on team success but didn't last long. Plenty of teams win big without NBA guards. I'll say again the closing the gap in talent evaluation skills between the priority recruit and the backup recruit is more important imo.. At this point it seems players like Arch or Siva are long shots to come to Gtown, both were well regarded coming out of HS.. Right now though they have to develop the skill of actually building a list of 2ndary targets, hard to close the gap you speak of when there aren't any players to compare to.. When I say they, I'm talking about JT3 & Broadus.. I don't really care what there rankings were that's not the point... the point is they're not NBA level talent... I don't understand the second part fully enough to answer but Broadus is pulling his own weight and then some imo..
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