hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 14, 2016 17:51:55 GMT -5
Of course players continue to develop after college (Mr. Strawman says hello). Its how they develop while in college that is relevant here. True, but our guards have historically improved quite a bit over time. Campbell is really the only example of somebody stepping backward after freshman season. Wright, Freeman, Clark, Starks, DSR, Trawick, all showed plenty of improvement. It's true that our guard recruiting hasn't been all that great in recent years. That needs to improve but we really don't need the NBA guys who are unlikely to come here (though we should try to get them obviously). We have really lacked in recent years guards who can handle the ball well, pass and probably most importantly, shoot threes. Just look at the top three point shooting guards in college - they aren't all NBA guys, in fact most of them aren't. There's no reason we cannot pull in those guys.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 14, 2016 18:34:04 GMT -5
At this point it seems players like Arch or Siva are long shots to come to Gtown, both were well regarded coming out of HS.. Right now though they have to develop the skill of actually building a list of 2ndary targets, hard to close the gap you speak of when there aren't any players to compare to.. When I say they, I'm talking about JT3 & Broadus.. I don't really care what there rankings were that's not the point... the point is they're not NBA level talent... I don't understand the second part fully enough to answer but Broadus is pulling his own weight and then some imo.. Maybe I read it wrong but I thought you were implying that the staff should be targeting kids like Siva & Arch.. To me Siva & Arch are bad examples to use because even though they're not NBA talents, they're the types of kids the staff is struggling to land over the years.. Siva & Arch are similar to Lykes or Booth or Crawford or Wiley ect.. All well regarded kids who Gtown went after pretty hard but couldn't land.. I get what Broadus has done & give him credit for that but I also see how unbalanced this roster has been for awhile now so as the lead recruiter of the program he gets a ding for that in my view..
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Jun 14, 2016 19:13:59 GMT -5
Miami is beautiful year round; So are the girls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 19:50:19 GMT -5
I don't really care what there rankings were that's not the point... the point is they're not NBA level talent... I don't understand the second part fully enough to answer but Broadus is pulling his own weight and then some imo.. Maybe I read it wrong but I thought you were implying that the staff should be targeting kids like Siva & Arch.. To me Siva & Arch are bad examples to use because even though they're not NBA talents, they're the types of kids the staff is struggling to land over the years.. Siva & Arch are similar to Lykes or Booth or Crawford or Wiley ect.. All well regarded kids who Gtown went after pretty hard but couldn't land.. I get what Broadus has done & give him credit for that but I also see how unbalanced this roster has been for awhile now so as the lead recruiter of the program he gets a ding for that in my view.. The convo wasn't really about that but He's actually second in command Hardy was lead asst. Pretty sure coach Slo is now I don't understand why those are bad examples because the conversation was about NBA talent and neither of those guys are that. In the context of my original comments those guys would be priority recruits Crawford Lykes and a kid like Mosely would be an example of a good backup option...
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 14, 2016 20:15:27 GMT -5
Umm...except the Princeton kind of held him back, which is evident by his substantial improvement after leaving college. That, and the fact that he was a top producer at the PG position in the D-League? He absolutely had ability, and much more NBA potential than any other guard we've recently had at that position really. Chris was a totally different/better player even two years out. Ty Lawson-lite. IMO, his improvement was a natural progression and had more to do with the fact that basketball became his full time job rather than any perceived disadvantages of the offense we run. I think it was a little of both. And both are related. The reason our players tend to get so much better once they only have basketball to focus on is in part because we don't practice every skill necessary for the next level
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 14, 2016 20:17:12 GMT -5
Umm...except the Princeton kind of held him back, which is evident by his substantial improvement after leaving college. That, and the fact that he was a top producer at the PG position in the D-League? He absolutely had ability, and much more NBA potential than any other guard we've recently had at that position really. Chris was a totally different/better player even two years out. Ty Lawson-lite. Ok fine, that doesn't contradict my point, which was that his time in college did not turn him into an NBA-ready talent. And as such, JTIII has not sent a single guard to the NBA. But it does contradict the focus of your point. You were refuting another posters opinion that he was NBA material. Regardless of whether or not he reached that potential at GU it doesn't really matter...he's been out of college for several years now.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 14, 2016 20:52:13 GMT -5
Maybe I read it wrong but I thought you were implying that the staff should be targeting kids like Siva & Arch.. To me Siva & Arch are bad examples to use because even though they're not NBA talents, they're the types of kids the staff is struggling to land over the years.. Siva & Arch are similar to Lykes or Booth or Crawford or Wiley ect.. All well regarded kids who Gtown went after pretty hard but couldn't land.. I get what Broadus has done & give him credit for that but I also see how unbalanced this roster has been for awhile now so as the lead recruiter of the program he gets a ding for that in my view.. The convo wasn't really about that but He's actually second in command Hardy was lead asst. Pretty sure coach Slo is now I don't understand why those are bad examples because the conversation was about NBA talent and neither of those guys are that. In the context of my original comments those guys would be priority recruits Crawford Lykes and a kid like Mosely would be an example of a good backup option... My bad then, I misinterpreted what you were saying.. So Hardy was the lead asst/recruiter? I had no clue at all, I assumed the lead guy went by seniority.. Your last comment is correct, which is why it's crazy to me that local kids like Jelani Williams or Jamir Moultrie don't have offers from G'town.. Imo the staff should be pivoting to go after kids like this hard after missing out on Lykes but it seems like they're trying to regroup..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 21:16:45 GMT -5
The convo wasn't really about that but He's actually second in command Hardy was lead asst. Pretty sure coach Slo is now I don't understand why those are bad examples because the conversation was about NBA talent and neither of those guys are that. In the context of my original comments those guys would be priority recruits Crawford Lykes and a kid like Mosely would be an example of a good backup option... My bad then, I misinterpreted what you were saying.. So Hardy was the lead asst/recruiter? I had no clue at all, I assumed the lead guy went by seniority.. Your last comment is correct, which is why it's crazy to me that local kids like Jelani Williams or Jamir Moultrie don't have offers from G'town.. Imo the staff should be pivoting to go after kids like this hard after missing out on Lykes but it seems like they're trying to regroup.. They might already be doing that hard for us to know but time will tell I guess. Think they broke it down by region Hardy NY/CHi Broadus DC/Maryland Sutton VA/FL. If an asst has a prior relationship that probably trumps this... OT a bit SLO was titled "recruiting coordinator" at ND so their set up might be different. When they say he was hired for a similar position at Gtown not sure if that is what's meant or just #1...
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Jun 14, 2016 21:22:39 GMT -5
We should be wrapping up this thread soon here boys. Time to take it outside.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 14, 2016 23:21:55 GMT -5
I think it is perfectly reasonable to give III credit for doing probably almost everything he could do to get Lykes once he was all aboard the Lykes-train. Apparently III said all the right things, made Lykes a priority on the recruiting trail and even bought in the right new assistants with all the desirable connections. At the same time one can also still simultaneously acknowledge that III failed again at getting arguably his #1 or #2 recruiting target and will have to fall back in taking in another prospect who, even if he ends up being better, was not as high on III’s priority list. Based upon the standard comments on this board I realize the reaction to this is the same old “most programs outside the true blue bloods don’t get their top targets blah, blah, blah”. That’s nonsense. Every year quite a few number of teams who aren’t blue bloods bring in top 50 guys who were their main prospects. This especially occurs when the teams in questions pursue recruits who are local. Is it out of the question for Gtown to achieve this?
I don’t think Lykes is even a consensus top 50 player yet but he is one of the best in the DC area and yet III couldn’t convince him to commit to GU. What’s most damning IMO is that Lykes may have committed to GU if the program was in better shape at the time he made his decision. In this thread someone pointed out that Miami had an advantage because of a recent season in which it went to the Sweet Sixteen. Well, whose fault is it that Gtown hasn’t been in such a position like making the Sweet 16 in so long a time? Whose fault is it that a Gtown team that returned the majority of its key players and had a better than advertised frosh class coming in would not only not live up to pre-season expectations as the #2 BE team but failed to have a winning record in general this past year? That blame almost always is laid at the feet of the coach.
From a few reports Lykes was told by III that he would adjust the offensive game plan to suit Lykes by making the Hoyas run more up and down. Well, that was something III in one way or another has been promising for years, back as far as when he took over the program and insisted that the Hoyas’ inspiration for the Princeton was more the Sacramento Kings than it was the Princeton Tigers. So who is to blame for Gtown still being known or perceived for playing a slow down/boring-style of ball all of these years later? That would be the coach, JT III. He could have picked up the pace, REALLY picked up the pace, and put out on the court a team that looked as if it knew what to do on the fastbreak ages ago. But that’s not what he did. And for those of you who clam he never had the personnel to do that (which is nonsense) my question again is whose fault is that? Who makes those decisions?
Look if III had positioned his program to be ready to take advantage of the new setup with the Big East like Jay Wright had Villanova ready, then there’s a great chance we wouldn’t be having this conversation/debate over why Lykes and some other top targets, particularly guards, went elsewhere. And I’m not even talking about winning the national championship like Nova; I’m talking about “just” being a ranked preseason team who spent the majority of the last three seasons being a top 15 squad which thus led to much more media attention and exposure. That is what III could have reasonably done if he had perhaps made better decisions regarding which players/recruits he was going to rely on, the quality of depth he was going to need in case some things went wrong (as they did) and the understanding how guard-dominated the game was getting. Maybe better decisions on these fronts lead to better results which would have made the home team more attractive to someone like Lykes who has family in DC who, according to one report, would have liked to have seen him stay in the area.
It’s all water under the bridge now, no need to harp on it much more going forward. And to be fair to III I don’t question his effort on the recruiting front. But the sliding of the program has not helped him on the recruiting trail.
Oh and as I wrote weeks ago when this board gets excited over the idea of bringing in a bunch of top talents in one class even though there isn’t many scholarships available, the situation is rarely solved, as many suggested, by things working themselves out in the end via departure of players. Instead it is worked out, as I pointed out, by all or most of those highly regarded recruits deciding not to go to Georgetown. Lykes is simply the first to follow that pattern of this group of current targeted recruits. Hopefully one or two will actually pick the Hoyas
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 10:47:41 GMT -5
I think it is perfectly reasonable to give III credit for doing probably almost everything he could do to get Lykes once he was all aboard the Lykes-train. Apparently III said all the right things, made Lykes a priority on the recruiting trail and even bought in the right new assistants with all the desirable connections. At the same time one can also still simultaneously acknowledge that III failed again at getting arguably his #1 or #2 recruiting target and will have to fall back in taking in another prospect who, even if he ends up being better, was not as high on III’s priority list. Based upon the standard comments on this board I realize the reaction to this is the same old “most programs outside the true blue bloods don’t get their top targets blah, blah, blah”. That’s nonsense. Every year quite a few number of teams who aren’t blue bloods bring in top 50 guys who were their main prospects. This especially occurs when the teams in questions pursue recruits who are local. Is it out of the question for Gtown to achieve this? I don’t think Lykes is even a consensus top 50 player yet but he is one of the best in the DC area and yet III couldn’t convince him to commit to GU. What’s most damning IMO is that Lykes may have committed to GU if the program was in better shape at the time he made his decision. In this thread someone pointed out that Miami had an advantage because of a recent season in which it went to the Sweet Sixteen. Well, whose fault is it that Gtown hasn’t been in such a position like making the Sweet 16 in so long a time? Whose fault is it that a Gtown team that returned the majority of its key players and had a better than advertised frosh class coming in would not only not live up to pre-season expectations as the #2 BE team but failed to have a winning record in general this past year? That blame almost always is laid at the feet of the coach. From a few reports Lykes was told by III that he would adjust the offensive game plan to suit Lykes by making the Hoyas run more up and down. Well, that was something III in one way or another has been promising for years, back as far as when he took over the program and insisted that the Hoyas’ inspiration for the Princeton was more the Sacramento Kings than it was the Princeton Tigers. So who is to blame for Gtown still being known or perceived for playing a slow down/boring-style of ball all of these years later? That would be the coach, JT III. He could have picked up the pace, REALLY picked up the pace, and put out on the court a team that looked as if it knew what to do on the fastbreak ages ago. But that’s not what he did. And for those of you who clam he never had the personnel to do that (which is nonsense) my question again is whose fault is that? Who makes those decisions? Look if III had positioned his program to be ready to take advantage of the new setup with the Big East like Jay Wright had Villanova ready, then there’s a great chance we wouldn’t be having this conversation/debate over why Lykes and some other top targets, particularly guards, went elsewhere. And I’m not even talking about winning the national championship like Nova; I’m talking about “just” being a ranked preseason team who spent the majority of the last three seasons being a top 15 squad which thus led to much more media attention and exposure. That is what III could have reasonably done if he had perhaps made better decisions regarding which players/recruits he was going to rely on, the quality of depth he was going to need in case some things went wrong (as they did) and the understanding how guard-dominated the game was getting. Maybe better decisions on these fronts lead to better results which would have made the home team more attractive to someone like Lykes who has family in DC who, according to one report, would have liked to have seen him stay in the area. It’s all water under the bridge now, no need to harp on it much more going forward. And to be fair to III I don’t question his effort on the recruiting front. But the sliding of the program has not helped him on the recruiting trail. Oh and as I wrote weeks ago when this board gets excited over the idea of bringing in a bunch of top talents in one class even though there isn’t many scholarships available, the situation is rarely solved, as many suggested, by things working themselves out in the end via departure of players. Instead it is worked out, as I pointed out, by all or most of those highly regarded recruits deciding not to go to Georgetown. Lykes is simply the first to follow that pattern of this group of current targeted recruits. Hopefully one or two will actually pick the Hoyas There's always a pecking order with recruits this seems to be the part your getting hung up on or something... There's an A group B group C group all the way down... Doubtful they take a commitment from say Parker Stewart who has and offer before finding out about Lykes for example. You made this comment in the Walker thread Do you think they would take a commitment from Walker before finding out about JJjR? Prob not... So imo players going elsewhere is part of "Scholarships working themselves out" You can have offers out to 40 kids doesn't mean you view them all equally..
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Jun 21, 2016 22:08:39 GMT -5
I think it is perfectly reasonable to give III credit for doing probably almost everything he could do to get Lykes once he was all aboard the Lykes-train. Apparently III said all the right things, made Lykes a priority on the recruiting trail and even bought in the right new assistants with all the desirable connections. At the same time one can also still simultaneously acknowledge that III failed again at getting arguably his #1 or #2 recruiting target and will have to fall back in taking in another prospect who, even if he ends up being better, was not as high on III’s priority list. Based upon the standard comments on this board I realize the reaction to this is the same old “most programs outside the true blue bloods don’t get their top targets blah, blah, blah”. That’s nonsense. Every year quite a few number of teams who aren’t blue bloods bring in top 50 guys who were their main prospects. This especially occurs when the teams in questions pursue recruits who are local. Is it out of the question for Gtown to achieve this? I don’t think Lykes is even a consensus top 50 player yet but he is one of the best in the DC area and yet III couldn’t convince him to commit to GU. What’s most damning IMO is that Lykes may have committed to GU if the program was in better shape at the time he made his decision. In this thread someone pointed out that Miami had an advantage because of a recent season in which it went to the Sweet Sixteen. Well, whose fault is it that Gtown hasn’t been in such a position like making the Sweet 16 in so long a time? Whose fault is it that a Gtown team that returned the majority of its key players and had a better than advertised frosh class coming in would not only not live up to pre-season expectations as the #2 BE team but failed to have a winning record in general this past year? That blame almost always is laid at the feet of the coach. From a few reports Lykes was told by III that he would adjust the offensive game plan to suit Lykes by making the Hoyas run more up and down. Well, that was something III in one way or another has been promising for years, back as far as when he took over the program and insisted that the Hoyas’ inspiration for the Princeton was more the Sacramento Kings than it was the Princeton Tigers. So who is to blame for Gtown still being known or perceived for playing a slow down/boring-style of ball all of these years later? That would be the coach, JT III. He could have picked up the pace, REALLY picked up the pace, and put out on the court a team that looked as if it knew what to do on the fastbreak ages ago. But that’s not what he did. And for those of you who clam he never had the personnel to do that (which is nonsense) my question again is whose fault is that? Who makes those decisions? Look if III had positioned his program to be ready to take advantage of the new setup with the Big East like Jay Wright had Villanova ready, then there’s a great chance we wouldn’t be having this conversation/debate over why Lykes and some other top targets, particularly guards, went elsewhere. And I’m not even talking about winning the national championship like Nova; I’m talking about “just” being a ranked preseason team who spent the majority of the last three seasons being a top 15 squad which thus led to much more media attention and exposure. That is what III could have reasonably done if he had perhaps made better decisions regarding which players/recruits he was going to rely on, the quality of depth he was going to need in case some things went wrong (as they did) and the understanding how guard-dominated the game was getting. Maybe better decisions on these fronts lead to better results which would have made the home team more attractive to someone like Lykes who has family in DC who, according to one report, would have liked to have seen him stay in the area. It’s all water under the bridge now, no need to harp on it much more going forward. And to be fair to III I don’t question his effort on the recruiting front. But the sliding of the program has not helped him on the recruiting trail. Oh and as I wrote weeks ago when this board gets excited over the idea of bringing in a bunch of top talents in one class even though there isn’t many scholarships available, the situation is rarely solved, as many suggested, by things working themselves out in the end via departure of players. Instead it is worked out, as I pointed out, by all or most of those highly regarded recruits deciding not to go to Georgetown. Lykes is simply the first to follow that pattern of this group of current targeted recruits. Hopefully one or two will actually pick the Hoyas again, there are so many factors to a kid's decision to attend a certain school...
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 21, 2016 23:44:00 GMT -5
I think it is perfectly reasonable to give III credit for doing probably almost everything he could do to get Lykes once he was all aboard the Lykes-train. Apparently III said all the right things, made Lykes a priority on the recruiting trail and even bought in the right new assistants with all the desirable connections. At the same time one can also still simultaneously acknowledge that III failed again at getting arguably his #1 or #2 recruiting target and will have to fall back in taking in another prospect who, even if he ends up being better, was not as high on III’s priority list. Based upon the standard comments on this board I realize the reaction to this is the same old “most programs outside the true blue bloods don’t get their top targets blah, blah, blah”. That’s nonsense. Every year quite a few number of teams who aren’t blue bloods bring in top 50 guys who were their main prospects. This especially occurs when the teams in questions pursue recruits who are local. Is it out of the question for Gtown to achieve this? I don’t think Lykes is even a consensus top 50 player yet but he is one of the best in the DC area and yet III couldn’t convince him to commit to GU. What’s most damning IMO is that Lykes may have committed to GU if the program was in better shape at the time he made his decision. In this thread someone pointed out that Miami had an advantage because of a recent season in which it went to the Sweet Sixteen. Well, whose fault is it that Gtown hasn’t been in such a position like making the Sweet 16 in so long a time? Whose fault is it that a Gtown team that returned the majority of its key players and had a better than advertised frosh class coming in would not only not live up to pre-season expectations as the #2 BE team but failed to have a winning record in general this past year? That blame almost always is laid at the feet of the coach. From a few reports Lykes was told by III that he would adjust the offensive game plan to suit Lykes by making the Hoyas run more up and down. Well, that was something III in one way or another has been promising for years, back as far as when he took over the program and insisted that the Hoyas’ inspiration for the Princeton was more the Sacramento Kings than it was the Princeton Tigers. So who is to blame for Gtown still being known or perceived for playing a slow down/boring-style of ball all of these years later? That would be the coach, JT III. He could have picked up the pace, REALLY picked up the pace, and put out on the court a team that looked as if it knew what to do on the fastbreak ages ago. But that’s not what he did. And for those of you who clam he never had the personnel to do that (which is nonsense) my question again is whose fault is that? Who makes those decisions? Look if III had positioned his program to be ready to take advantage of the new setup with the Big East like Jay Wright had Villanova ready, then there’s a great chance we wouldn’t be having this conversation/debate over why Lykes and some other top targets, particularly guards, went elsewhere. And I’m not even talking about winning the national championship like Nova; I’m talking about “just” being a ranked preseason team who spent the majority of the last three seasons being a top 15 squad which thus led to much more media attention and exposure. That is what III could have reasonably done if he had perhaps made better decisions regarding which players/recruits he was going to rely on, the quality of depth he was going to need in case some things went wrong (as they did) and the understanding how guard-dominated the game was getting. Maybe better decisions on these fronts lead to better results which would have made the home team more attractive to someone like Lykes who has family in DC who, according to one report, would have liked to have seen him stay in the area. It’s all water under the bridge now, no need to harp on it much more going forward. And to be fair to III I don’t question his effort on the recruiting front. But the sliding of the program has not helped him on the recruiting trail. Oh and as I wrote weeks ago when this board gets excited over the idea of bringing in a bunch of top talents in one class even though there isn’t many scholarships available, the situation is rarely solved, as many suggested, by things working themselves out in the end via departure of players. Instead it is worked out, as I pointed out, by all or most of those highly regarded recruits deciding not to go to Georgetown. Lykes is simply the first to follow that pattern of this group of current targeted recruits. Hopefully one or two will actually pick the Hoyas again, there are so many factors to a kid's decision to attend a certain school... And Gtown as of late is apparently lacking in all of them.
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Nov 11, 2017 0:05:54 GMT -5
Chris had 3 pts in 18 minutes. I saw a few minutes of this game and he's gonna be a good player for Miami. His quickness is evident right away.... his 3pts came from a long top of the key 3.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jan 22, 2018 15:37:52 GMT -5
Just checked in on University of Miami's team page.
Chris Lykes got his first start of the season over the weekend and has played in all 18 Hurricanes games.
He's averaging 18 min and 8 ppg. He has a 31-29 A:TO ratio for the season. He's shooting a respectable 38% from 3 and is second on the team in made 3s on the season (27-71). Not a bad start to his rookie campaign.
Miami is 14-4 (3-3) and definitely in the mix for a tournament bid at this point, although they had a tough loss to Ga. Tech.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 22, 2018 16:26:32 GMT -5
Just checked in on University of Miami's team page. Chris Lykes got his first start of the season over the weekend and has played in all 18 Hurricanes games. He's averaging 18 min and 8 ppg. He has a 31-29 A:TO ratio for the season. He's shooting a respectable 38% from 3 and is second on the team in made 3s on the season (27-71). Not a bad start to his rookie campaign. Miami is 14-4 (3-3) and definitely in the mix for a tournament bid at this point, although they had a tough loss to Ga. Tech. Everytime I have watched him this year, you can tell Larranaga wants him to take over that role as starting PG. He is going start for the next 3 years for them and score alot of points.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 22, 2018 17:08:09 GMT -5
Lykes, Bracey and Hart. Just a few folks that wanted to be Hoyas. Recruiting and talent evaluation are key.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 22, 2018 17:16:11 GMT -5
Just checked in on University of Miami's team page. Chris Lykes got his first start of the season over the weekend and has played in all 18 Hurricanes games. He's averaging 18 min and 8 ppg. He has a 31-29 A:TO ratio for the season. He's shooting a respectable 38% from 3 and is second on the team in made 3s on the season (27-71). Not a bad start to his rookie campaign. Miami is 14-4 (3-3) and definitely in the mix for a tournament bid at this point, although they had a tough loss to Ga. Tech. But Lykes is sub-6'1" (by a lot ...)...
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 22, 2018 17:24:43 GMT -5
Lykes, Bracey and Hart. Just a few folks that wanted to be Hoyas. Recruiting and talent evaluation are key. Why even group them? Lykes is probably the only one in the group that III went all-in for. Lykes still went elsewhere. If III had given half that effort towards Hart, Hart would have been a Hoya.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 9, 2021 17:03:25 GMT -5
Have heard this rumor from a couple different sources now. Would put us immediately in the top half of Big East next year and a likely tournament team IMHO.
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