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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 3, 2014 10:28:37 GMT -5
Dr. Q - one thing I still like about our program is the relative paucity of early departures to the pros. The great majority of kids are here for the long haul, so we can watch them develop and mature. Of course the nature of college ball is different. The nature of sports, and of the world in general, is different. I don't live and die with each game(okay, maybe just a little). But I still love watching our Hoyas. And coming here to celebrate, commiserate, vent and pontificate.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Feb 3, 2014 11:05:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess I see Dr.Q's point about it being more difficult to stay loyal given the early departures, but I don't have that problem. And, I just cannot fathom how anyone would begrudge Porter or Green for going early when they are projected to be top 10 picks. Would any of the critics have passed up on that? I, for one, surely would not have.
As for the site, if everyone was always positive and optimistic, then this would be a boring place. I don't think it is that much more negative around here, other than just a reflection on the frustration many are feeling becuase it has been a pretty tough season. My problem has been the redundant drone of certain posters and issues. It creates a a cycle of arguments and counter-arguments that, frankly, make some of these threads unreadable. But I still keep reading...
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,385
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Post by drquigley on Feb 3, 2014 11:13:31 GMT -5
I needed to vent. Yes we don't lose as many players after 2 years to the pros (don't think we've ever lost one after 1) but that's because we haven't gotten those blue chippers. When we do, e.g. Iverson and Monroe, they leave (probably better choice of words than "bolt"). If we did get a stud who we all knew was a one and done how could we legitimately claim him as a "Hoya". Do these studs even go to class second semester? In short, I will still love the Hoyas, I will still attend 5 games a year, and I will try to keep my comments appropriate. But I will never lose sight of the fact that we are part of a sports entertainment business that plays on this student and alumni loyalty to corrupt the sport - and some schools (how do you think N.CC. Alums feel right now?) - to make a lot of people very rich.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 11:17:39 GMT -5
I needed to vent. Yes we don't lose as many players after 2 years to the pros (don't think we've ever lost one after 1) but that's because we haven't gotten those blue chippers. When we do, e.g. Iverson and Monroe, they leave (probably better choice of words than "bolt"). If we did get a stud who we all knew was a one and done how could we legitimately claim him as a "Hoya". Do these studs even go to class second semester? In short, I will still love the Hoyas, I will still attend 5 games a year, and I will try to keep my comments appropriate. But I will never lose sight of the fact that we are part of a sports entertainment business that plays on this student and alumni loyalty to corrupt the sport - and some schools (how do you think N.CC. Alums feel right now?) - to make a lot of people very rich. I don't know about this. How about Roy, who coulda went after junior year and been drafted but stayed? How about Jeff Green who came back every summer to graduate? From what I understand Monroe intends to finish his degree too. Shouldnt be hard for Otto either being in DC. Anyway, as much as I want these guys to stay I have to separate my own bias for Gtown for that of any rational actor which is to maximize your economic potential. I feel like we get enough guys who stay all 4 years and have a pretty good track record with guys for the potential to leave early to either stay an extra year or come back to finish their degree. They don't owe any of us an extra year in the uniform though.....Now, do I wish Greg and Otto had been more successful in the postseason while at Gtown? Yes, that's a legitimate knock on them....
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,385
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Post by drquigley on Feb 3, 2014 12:15:46 GMT -5
If Roy was as good at the end of his junior year as he was at the end of his senior year he would have left early too. I guess I'm just saying the free market system has corrupted the sport and while I can't begrudge the guys who leave early for the money it would be nice if we couldn't change the system. Say pay the players a small salary in return for reintroducing the freshman ineligible rule. This would allow them to really get an education, see what college life is like and, except for the real studs, probably keep them in school through their junior year. Do they owe us the extra year or two? Probably not but then we don't owe them the kind of loyalty we would a for a real student athlete. Which gets back to the point of this thread, I.e. Why some commenters might come down hard on a kid who we know is just passing through on his way to the NBA.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,781
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 3, 2014 12:25:35 GMT -5
If Roy was as good at the end of his junior year as he was at the end of his senior year he would have left early too. That's not true. Roy was great junior year, had just come off playing #1 pick Greg Oden to a draw in the National Title game. He was better in 2008, but not so much that it would have affected his draft stock. Roy (said he) stayed because he felt he wasn't emotionally/mentally mature enough for the pros yet, which is pretty mature in and of itself. One would think someone who laments the system so much would revel in a player who rejects easy money for something he felt was more important. This is a lot of ridiculousness to please the fan. I also think it is ridiculous to paint a player who goes early as someone who is just passing through on his way to the NBA. Some are; some aren't. But you act like it's impossible someone would want to grab lifetime financial security and love Georgetown at the same time.
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
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Post by richfame on Feb 3, 2014 12:52:28 GMT -5
I think most of the people that provided a positive slant to this board went over to Casual Hoya. Until that site opened, this site was the only game in town so you had a healthy balance of perspective. I question the arguments posed that this board is negative; compared to many message boards out there, it has been generally more positive and compared to 10 years ago (for those that were around), even more so. A five game losing streak will bring out frustration among fans but this is not unexpected nor unusual for a fan base that has experienced much success over the past five years. As to site traffic, it has remained consistent (around 2000 per day) among Georgetown fans but is down among opponent fans, who frankly may not be aware of it versus brand-name sites like Rivals, Scout, or SB Nation. Then again, the requests from drive-bys wanting access with names such as "SURules2003" or "WVU#1" is a lot less troublesome. I could not agree more with this comment. 5-8 years ago there would be meltdown after meltdown. Also there were so many firelighters it was getting to be just to much. I forget the crazy posters but guys like hoyaeighties, bronxhoya, bigmike, hifigator, mrsixer etc.... We it was entertaining to a point....
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Feb 3, 2014 14:33:24 GMT -5
Actually, TJI, you keep harping on the one thing you were right about and refuse to acknowledge what you're wrong about. That's confrontational and cowardly. Where were Hayes and Domingo yesterday btw? Puh-leeze. See this is a prime example... Yea the team did not need Hayes or Domingo on Saturday... People are asking to give them minutes, no one is saying Hayes or Domingo is needed for the Hoyas to win. Yea...I get things wrong too and there is nothing wrong with that... Cause who doesn't?? There will always be a million and 1 posters there to correct me via information. Questions for you: 1. What was I right about?? 2. Do u like people calling u a liar?? TJI, you drive many of us crazy with the sheer volume of your posts that tend to repeat the same three or four points over and over. You signed onto HoyaTalk less than a year ago and have more than 2,300 posts. I have been on here since 2004 and have been a consistent regular, but you have more posts in one year than I have in 10 years.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 3, 2014 17:00:31 GMT -5
The problem isn't negativity, it is bad, repetitive posting. If you weren't around posting during the Esherick era, you simply have no reasonable idea of what negativity looks like, and quite honestly the negativity back then was an important part of finally getting Esh pushed out the door.
This message board is a window into the sentiments of the fan base and of donors and if people who engage in intelligent discussion are angry, there may be something there.
I cant understand how people are upset or surprised that some would take a glass-half empty approach following a 5-game losing streak. I expected the Hoyas to blow it in the end on Saturday myself, but I loved watching that game and was giddy when they pulled it out.
But again, I think the problem is people who see negativity as a proxy for trolling, bad, repetitive posting. They aren't the same thing. There are just a lot unreadable posters out there who don't have anything interesting to say. Still, compared to most boards, this one is doing quite well.
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 3, 2014 17:01:41 GMT -5
TJI, you drive many of us crazy with the sheer volume of your posts that tend to repeat the same three or four points over and over. You signed onto HoyaTalk less than a year ago and have more than 2,300 posts. I have been on here since 2004 and have been a consistent regular, but you have more posts in one year than I have in 10 years. Couldn't have said it better. People who are posting 500+ times a year just aren't adding value.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 17:05:50 GMT -5
Ahhhhhh who cares it’s a message board, if you don’t like the BS keep it moving… Works for me.. Shrugs
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Big Dog
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,912
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 3, 2014 17:18:40 GMT -5
Ahhhhhh who cares it’s a message board, if you don’t like the BS keep it moving… Works for me.. Shrugs Case in point.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 17:23:31 GMT -5
Ahhhhhh who cares it’s a message board, if you don’t like the BS keep it moving… Works for me.. Shrugs Case in point. lol If our point is I post too much repetitive nonsense and too often, you’re probably right. I’ll work on not posting as much in the future.. Shrugs There’s also an ignore button 2 if my level of posting, which I acknowledge to be frequent is still too much, just putting that out there….
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 3, 2014 18:18:53 GMT -5
YaBoy, you aren't the offender here. I am sure most appreciate your posts.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,385
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Post by drquigley on Feb 3, 2014 20:00:25 GMT -5
If Roy was as good at the end of his junior year as he was at the end of his senior year he would have left early too. That's not true. Roy was great junior year, had just come off playing #1 pick Greg Oden to a draw in the National Title game. He was better in 2008, but not so much that it would have affected his draft stock. Roy (said he) stayed because he felt he wasn't emotionally/mentally mature enough for the pros yet, which is pretty mature in and of itself. One would think someone who laments the system so much would revel in a player who rejects easy money for something he felt was more important. This is a lot of ridiculousness to please the fan. I also think it is ridiculous to paint a player who goes early as someone who is just passing through on his way to the NBA. Some are; some aren't. But you act like it's impossible someone would want to grab lifetime financial security and love Georgetown at the same time. I do revel in Roy but not just because he stayed 4 years but because he worked so hard to improve his game. He was a true student athlete. BTW, that Ohio State game was a foul-fest where neither Oden nor Roy really could showcase their talent. And while Roy was very good his junior year he was not a lottery pick until his senior year. And not just because he improved his physical skills but because that extra year of college really matured him. Same thing that could be said of all 2 and outs. Last year I met Sleepy Floyd at a charity event. Had a nice long conversation with him about his Georgetown years. A true alumnus whose son is attending Georgetown. I can't imagine having a similar conversation with someone who attended 1 or 2 years before moving on. Look, we are using these 1 or 2 and out guys to make win championships and make money and they are using us to get to the NBA. I can't argue that this makes economic sense but I can argue that it turns the whole idea of student athlete on its head.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2014 20:09:59 GMT -5
I do revel in Roy but not just because he stayed 4 years but because he worked so hard to improve his game. He was a true student athlete. BTW, that Ohio State game was a foul-fest where neither Oden nor Roy really could showcase their talent. And while Roy was very good his junior year he was not a lottery pick until his senior year. And not just because he improved his physical skills but because that extra year of college really matured him. Same thing that could be said of all 2 and outs. Last year I met Sleepy Floyd at a charity event. Had a nice long conversation with him about his Georgetown years. A true alumnus whose son is attending Georgetown. I can't imagine having a similar conversation with someone who attended 1 or 2 years before moving on. Look, we are using these 1 or 2 and out guys to make win championships and make money and they are using us to get to the NBA. I can't argue that this makes economic sense but I can argue that it turns the whole idea of student athlete on its head. Roy was not a Lottery Pick. He was drafted 17th. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NBA_draftI think you have this nostalgia that never was with Roy in terms of staying 4 years and how he improved his position by coming back his senior year.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2014 20:18:13 GMT -5
In many ways the tone of the comments on this board reflect the state of modern college sports in general and basketball in particular. One or two and done, sacrifice of traditional rivalries on the altar of the almighty dollar, etc have reduced college sports to the level of big money businesses and student athletes to the status of mercenaries (Josh Smith?). I will always love the Hoyas but not like I did 20-30 years ago. How can I truly commit to kids who I know will be here only 1-2 years? I was ready to join the Otto Porter fan club but Otto, who 2 years before, was just a nice kid from nowhere Missouri bolted GU in a nanosecond. If players won't commit to us and the University for at least 3 years how can they expect us to commit to them? Forgive the rant but I think complaining about the tone of some posts without also acknowledging the corruption of the sport misses the elephant in the room. I think you are off base with this. Especially with Monroe. He could have easily left after his freshman year and been a Lottery pick. He actually helped us out by coming back for his sophomore year because the cupboard was bare that year in terms of our big men. Monroe's sophomore year roster. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/georgetown/2010.htmlWith the one and done system, staying two years is more than you can ask for a Lottery pick caliber player. They don't owe you anything and we are not entitled to anymore years than that.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,326
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Post by tashoya on Feb 3, 2014 22:20:48 GMT -5
Actually, TJI, you keep harping on the one thing you were right about and refuse to acknowledge what you're wrong about. That's confrontational and cowardly. Where were Hayes and Domingo yesterday btw? Puh-leeze. See this is a prime example... Yea the team did not need Hayes or Domingo on Saturday... People are asking to give them minutes, no one is saying Hayes or Domingo is needed for the Hoyas to win. Yea...I get things wrong too and there is nothing wrong with that... Cause who doesn't?? There will always be a million and 1 posters there to correct me via information. Questions for you: 1. What was I right about?? 2. Do u like people calling u a liar?? 1. TJI, I honestly don't remember anything that you were right about (including the nickname for Hopkins) but I was taking your word that you, in fact, were at some point. 2. I'm not sure what you're talking about with the liar thing. I do know, however, that you harp on the rotation every game and call it bad coaching yet, when the rotation is limited and JT3 outcoaches Izzo, you're strangely silent. The short rotation never was bad coaching and for you to be quiet all of a sudden for the first time in I can't remember how long, it just seems a bit coincidental to put it kindly. With some hot sauce, crow might taste alright. You might wanna try it. And, to be fair, it's you and maybe a handful of others clamoring about minutes for other players. The other posters realize that the coach probably is in a much better position to make such decisions since he, ya know, sees those guys play and all.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,326
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Post by tashoya on Feb 3, 2014 22:40:49 GMT -5
1. TJI, I honestly don't remember anything that you were right about (including the nickname for Hopkins) but I was taking your word that you, in fact, were at some point.
2. I'm not sure what you're talking about with the liar thing. I do know, however, that you harp on the rotation every game and call it bad coaching yet, when the rotation is limited and JT3 outcoaches Izzo, you're strangely silent. The short rotation never was bad coaching and for you to be quiet all of a sudden for the first time in I can't remember how long, it just seems a bit coincidental to put it kindly. With some hot sauce, crow might taste alright. You might wanna try it.
And, to be fair, it's you and maybe a handful of others clamoring about minutes for other players. The other posters realize that the coach probably is in a much better position to make such decisions since he, ya know, sees those guys play and all. You feel better now?? U consider your post civil?? I don't feel either better or worse. And, yes, I thought it was completely civil. I still find it hilarious that you're OK with the shorter rotation in the one game the Hoyas have won in the past 6. I guess the coach knows what he's doing in wins and you know what he's doing wrong in losses? You're entertaining. I'll give you that.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 3, 2014 22:43:56 GMT -5
You feel better now?? U consider your post civil?? I don't feel either better or worse. And, yes, I thought it was completely civil. I still find it hilarious that you're OK with the shorter rotation in the one game the Hoyas have won in the past 6. I guess the coach knows what he's doing in wins and you know what he's doing wrong in losses? You're entertaining. I'll give you that.So you really favor a smaller rotation??
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