MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,419
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 25, 2014 16:48:41 GMT -5
Of course it doesn't mean that! Sigh... I'm not coach so I don't see what he sees but there's a history of players "getting it" within the offensive system. But isn't there a way of speeding up the process through coaching and reinforcement? Sims (GU's only other center) got NO run during Julian Vaughn's starting at center campaign and it hurt GU. All good points and I agree in theory but guess I just subscribe to getting players coached up and teaching players while giving them opportunities where they won't hurt the team. JTIII seems to not have that kind of patience. Henry Sims averaged 14 minutes a game as a junior (when Vaughn was a senior), and he was a valuable player that year. The idea often stated here that Sims was a bust until senior year isn't true and ignores his fairly productive junior season. Of course, his senior season was even better. So productive of a junior year that fans on this very board were cringing at the thought that Sims would start for the team as a senior. After the summer injury to Moses and the revelation of the condition of Tyler's health, there was a bit of panic from Hoya fans that the team was in major trouble with Sims at the five position. As a result many were certain the team would not make the tourney. Let's not be revisionist regarding Sims up and down junior season. People were bashing him left and right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 17:28:08 GMT -5
Because he’s not very good right now. He barely played on his HS team as a Senior and looked to be a long ways away in Kenner and other playing opportunities… Needs a year away from the game to get stronger and develop his skills so transferring and having to sit out should help him... Yes I know this - he wasn't very good last year - but WHY wasn't he very good last year? Is it possible that he could have gotten better with some coaching over the course of the year? Just a question. Not really IMO How do you go from not playing on your high school team to playing significant minutes in the BE in a year? He wasn’t playing at Oak Hill Academy, he was playing on a HS team that had very little height yet he got limited minutes. I mean I luv the kid but he wasn’t ready, 6’10 190 ain’t gonna cut it in the BE from a physical standpoint. So yeah IMO Phil Jackson could not have made Bolden good last year. He like a lot of young bigs needs time to develop into his body, get stronger and develop his skills. Something he should be able to do while he sits out this year. When your talking about player development it’s foolish to believe coaches don’t put programs together for all of the kids. Kids still have to put the work in. A coach can’t force a player to want to be great.. see Roy Hibbert. Henry Sims didn’t work hard for 3 years suddenly before his Senior year he decides to take the game seriously and has a great season. Do you think he wasn’t being told what he needs to do all 4 years he was here? Of course he was, kids have to want to put the work in…
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B. Hayes
Jan 25, 2014 17:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2014 17:45:41 GMT -5
Being tall and relatively "athletic" does not mean a player is ready to play major college basketball. Of course it doesn't mean that! Sigh... I'm not coach so I don't see what he sees but there's a history of players "getting it" within the offensive system. But isn't there a way of speeding up the process through coaching and reinforcement? Sims (GU's only other center) got NO run during Julian Vaughn's starting at center campaign and it hurt GU. All good points and I agree in theory but guess I just subscribe to getting players coached up and teaching players while giving them opportunities where they won't hurt the team. JTIII seems to not have that kind of patience. Sims is a perfect example of not playing someone till they are ready to play. He barely played at all his freshman and sophomore years (just like Hayes and Domingo). Yet he put in hard work in practice and on skills development (and did less partying) and became a monster. And he's gone on to get a contact for the rest of the season in the NBA even though he wasn't highly rated like Summers or Macklin so you have to consider the way he was handled a success.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 25, 2014 18:27:14 GMT -5
Yes I know this - he wasn't very good last year - but WHY wasn't he very good last year? Is it possible that he could have gotten better with some coaching over the course of the year? Just a question. Not really IMO How do you go from not playing on your high school team to playing significant minutes in the BE in a year? He wasn’t playing at Oak Hill Academy, he was playing on a HS team that had very little height yet he got limited minutes. I mean I luv the kid but he wasn’t ready, 6’10 190 ain’t gonna cut it in the BE from a physical standpoint. So yeah IMO Phil Jackson could not have made Bolden good last year. He like a lot of young bigs needs time to develop into his body, get stronger and develop his skills. Something he should be able to do while he sits out this year. When your talking about player development it’s foolish to believe coaches don’t put programs together for all of the kids. Kids still have to put the work in. A coach can’t force a player to want to be great.. see Roy Hibbert. Henry Sims didn’t work hard for 3 years suddenly before his Senior year he decides to take the game seriously and has a great season. Do you think he wasn’t being told what he needs to do all 4 years he was here? Of course he was, kids have to want to put the work in… Someone was saying that ths year Bolden should or would not have played. Which may be the case. But that's what was referrng to
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 25, 2014 18:32:23 GMT -5
Henry Sims averaged 14 minutes a game as a junior (when Vaughn was a senior), and he was a valuable player that year. The idea often stated here that Sims was a bust until senior year isn't true and ignores his fairly productive junior season. Of course, his senior season was even better. So productive of a junior year that fans on this very board were cringing at the thought that Sims would start for the team as a senior. After the summer injury to Moses and the revelation of the condition of Tyler's health, there was a bit of panic from Hoya fans that the team was in major trouble with Sims at the five position. As a result many were certain the team would not make the tourney. Let's not be revisionist regarding Sims up and down junior season. People were bashing him left and right. Because all we saw were mistakes in the 1 minute he got in games; Sims was doing what he was recruited for doing, then JTIII kept saying he wouldn't play takng jumpers. I'll leave the subject alone because no matter how much I say yes, maybe these players aren't ready but maybe that can be expedited through coaching and experience I keep gettng the "you're crazy and smoking somethng argument" this subject has no wrong answer really. it's easy to say guys aren't any good if they don't get minutes i'm done
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,853
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 25, 2014 18:32:36 GMT -5
Of course it doesn't mean that! Sigh... I'm not coach so I don't see what he sees but there's a history of players "getting it" within the offensive system. But isn't there a way of speeding up the process through coaching and reinforcement? Sims (GU's only other center) got NO run during Julian Vaughn's starting at center campaign and it hurt GU. All good points and I agree in theory but guess I just subscribe to getting players coached up and teaching players while giving them opportunities where they won't hurt the team. JTIII seems to not have that kind of patience. Sims is a perfect example of not playing someone till they are ready to play. He barely played at all his freshman and sophomore years (just like Hayes and Domingo). Yet he put in hard work in practice and on skills development (and did less partying) and became a monster. And he's gone on to get a contact for the rest of the season in the NBA even though he wasn't highly rated like Summers or Macklin so you have to consider the way he was handled a success. Henry played 275 minutes his freshman year and this is with Monroe, Summers & Vaughn on the team.. Hayes has played 14 this year with Lubick, Hops & Moses ahead of him..
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 25, 2014 18:39:23 GMT -5
i remember Sims played a bunch freshman year and he was close with Monroe; the next year hardly any minutes; Junior year, eh...
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Jan 25, 2014 18:45:39 GMT -5
But you compared Sims' pt to Hayes and Bolden so everyone showed that you were wrong. No comparison. Hayes is not Sims.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2014 18:50:02 GMT -5
Sims is a perfect example of not playing someone till they are ready to play. He barely played at all his freshman and sophomore years (just like Hayes and Domingo). Yet he put in hard work in practice and on skills development (and did less partying) and became a monster. And he's gone on to get a contact for the rest of the season in the NBA even though he wasn't highly rated like Summers or Macklin so you have to consider the way he was handled a success. Henry played 275 minutes his freshman year and this is with Monroe, Summers & Vaughn on the team.. Hayes has played 14 this year with Lubick, Hops & Moses ahead of him.. 9.8 freshman year 6.8 sophomore year That's Moses level 4.3 freshman 9.4 possible redshirt sophmore 12.7 possible redshirt junior From what I've seen Hayes lacks strength and doesn't have the athleticism of even freshmen Sims. I think the lack of athleticism and speed was the most disappointing with Hayes. He does have good touch on his freethrows and outside shot though.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 25, 2014 18:50:38 GMT -5
But you compared Sims' pt to Hayes and Bolden so everyone showed that you were wrong. No comparison. Hayes is not Sims. freshman year, but yeah I'm wrong. Hayes sucks - he's no Sims.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 25, 2014 18:53:11 GMT -5
Henry played 275 minutes his freshman year and this is with Monroe, Summers & Vaughn on the team.. Hayes has played 14 this year with Lubick, Hops & Moses ahead of him.. 9.8 freshman year 6.8 sophomore year That's Moses level 4.3 freshman 9.4 possible redshirt sophmore 12.7 possible redshirt junior From what I've seen Hayes lacks strength and doesn't have the athleticism of even freshmen Sims. I think the lack of athleticism and speed was the most disappointing with Hayes. He does have good touch on his freethrows and outside shot though. thanks for the data. was not comparing how they stack up physically. defenitely Sims was more athletic and less of a "center" type. you guys win - Hayes sucks and doesn't deserve any time. I'll be quiet on THIS issue and watch the rest of the games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 19:19:08 GMT -5
Not really IMO How do you go from not playing on your high school team to playing significant minutes in the BE in a year? He wasn’t playing at Oak Hill Academy, he was playing on a HS team that had very little height yet he got limited minutes. I mean I luv the kid but he wasn’t ready, 6’10 190 ain’t gonna cut it in the BE from a physical standpoint. So yeah IMO Phil Jackson could not have made Bolden good last year. He like a lot of young bigs needs time to develop into his body, get stronger and develop his skills. Something he should be able to do while he sits out this year. When your talking about player development it’s foolish to believe coaches don’t put programs together for all of the kids. Kids still have to put the work in. A coach can’t force a player to want to be great.. see Roy Hibbert. Henry Sims didn’t work hard for 3 years suddenly before his Senior year he decides to take the game seriously and has a great season. Do you think he wasn’t being told what he needs to do all 4 years he was here? Of course he was, kids have to want to put the work in… Someone was saying that ths year Bolden should or would not have played. Which may be the case. But that's what was referrng to Ok but you said.."Yes I know this - he wasn't very good last year - but WHY wasn't he very good last year? Is it possible that he could have gotten better with some coaching over the course of the year? Just a question.” I don’t understand?
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Jan 25, 2014 19:33:34 GMT -5
9.8 freshman year 6.8 sophomore year That's Moses level 4.3 freshman 9.4 possible redshirt sophmore 12.7 possible redshirt junior From what I've seen Hayes lacks strength and doesn't have the athleticism of even freshmen Sims. I think the lack of athleticism and speed was the most disappointing with Hayes. He does have good touch on his freethrows and outside shot though. thanks for the data. was not comparing how they stack up physically. defenitely Sims was more athletic and less of a "center" type. you guys win - Hayes sucks and doesn't deserve any time. I'll be quiet on THIS issue and watch the rest of the games. It would be really funny to see Bradley Hayes play 8 to 10 mins. tonight. I wonder if that would quiet some the, "Hayes is not ready play", talk??
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2014 19:37:31 GMT -5
thanks for the data. was not comparing how they stack up physically. defenitely Sims was more athletic and less of a "center" type. you guys win - Hayes sucks and doesn't deserve any time. I'll be quiet on THIS issue and watch the rest of the games. It would be really funny to see Bradley Hayes play 8 to 10 mins. tonight. I wonder if that would quiet some the, "Hayes is not ready play", talk?? I hope he plays 40 minutes, covers McDermott and takes over point guard duties from Markel with his killer crossover. Lay-up!
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 25, 2014 19:44:39 GMT -5
Henry played 275 minutes his freshman year and this is with Monroe, Summers & Vaughn on the team.. Hayes has played 14 this year with Lubick, Hops & Moses ahead of him.. 9.8 freshman year 6.8 sophomore year That's Moses level 4.3 freshman 9.4 possible redshirt sophmore 12.7 possible redshirt junior From what I've seen Hayes lacks strength and doesn't have the athleticism of even freshmen Sims. I think the lack of athleticism and speed was the most disappointing with Hayes. He does have good touch on his free throws and outside shot though. I never said Hayes was as good as Freshman Sims, your original post stated Hayes & Domingo were on a similar track to Sims which they aren't.. There's a noticeable difference between barely playing and not playing at all..
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2014 20:02:16 GMT -5
9.8 freshman year 6.8 sophomore year That's Moses level 4.3 freshman 9.4 possible redshirt sophmore 12.7 possible redshirt junior From what I've seen Hayes lacks strength and doesn't have the athleticism of even freshmen Sims. I think the lack of athleticism and speed was the most disappointing with Hayes. He does have good touch on his free throws and outside shot though. I never said Hayes was as good as Freshman Sims, your original post stated Hayes & Domingo were on a similar track to Sims which they aren't.. There's a noticeable difference between barely playing and not playing at all.. I think they are. At least Domingo. I value the time and skills development that takes place in practice and think that is more important than 5 minutes here or there. If a freshman or sophomore can play or fill a they will as we've seen with Cameron, Lubick, Hopkins, Monroe, Otto, Whit, etc. Look, I'm the boards biggest Domingo's biggest fan but he can't hit the 3s. If he could like he's supposed to then he would be getting the time that Cameron's getting.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 25, 2014 20:28:17 GMT -5
I never said Hayes was as good as Freshman Sims, your original post stated Hayes & Domingo were on a similar track to Sims which they aren't.. There's a noticeable difference between barely playing and not playing at all.. I think they are. At least Domingo. I value the time and skills development that takes place in practice and think that is more important than 5 minutes here or there. If a freshman or sophomore can play or fill a they will as we've seen with Cameron, Lubick, Hopkins, Monroe, Otto, Whit, etc. Look, I'm the boards biggest Domingo's biggest fan but he can't hit the 3s. If he could like he's supposed to then he would be getting the time that Cameron's getting. Very little for Domingo but no way at all with Hayes
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Eurostar on Feb 18, 2014 7:10:20 GMT -5
After reading that SI article about Hibbert and his time at Georgetown and putting in all the work to be where he is now, I just want to give Hayes some minutes on the floor to get some experience. In the few minutes I've seen him play, it looks like he's playing hard out there and at least holding his own. He cant be any worse than Moses honestly. And you cant teach 7 feet. I hope he read that Hibbert article and is putting in work.
Having not played for 3 out of 4 of his high school years due to rapid growth and injury, he must have to build all his basic skills up from scratch.
I don't want to lose hope on this kid because we need bigs and he can definitely crack this lineup over the course of the next few years.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Feb 18, 2014 8:30:14 GMT -5
If he has to build his skills up from scratch, how does he deserve minutes? People talk like he can't be that much worse than some of Moses' bad days. Of course he can be that much worse. All evidence seems to point in that direction.
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FrazierFanatic
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B. Hayes
Feb 18, 2014 11:38:15 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 18, 2014 11:38:15 GMT -5
"He can't be worse than Moses on his bad days" is no justification for minutes. If the staff thinks he can give MORE than Moses, he should get that chance.
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