Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 27, 2015 9:15:35 GMT -5
He was also being guarded by a completely overmatched 6'6" "power forward." Venky Jois is listed at 6'-8" by ESPN, the same by draft express, CBS Sportsline ect.. EWU's sophomore Milijkovic is 6'-7" Those were their 2 bigs.. Neither are 6'-6".. Why downplay his accomplishments? Especially after seeing Smith & Hopkins fail to take advantage of the same line-up. Jois didn't guard him. When Hayes came in, they intentionally shifted assignments so as to protect Jois from racking up any fouls on Hayes. Jois guarded our PF and their PF guarded Hayes.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 27, 2015 9:38:21 GMT -5
Next year JT3 will be forced to use him. No way getting around it... In a lot of ways, the treatment of Bradley Hayes reminds me of how Henry Sims was treated. Freshmen year not red-shirted and played limited minutes behind Greg Monroe. Then Sims played minimal minutes and had to sit behind a limited Julian Vaughn during his Sophomore and Junior years until JTIII was forced to use Sims in a major/starting role his Senior year. Go ahead and argue about whether Brad should have played more until now or whether he will play more next year. That's fine. But enough with the Henry Sims comparisons (which are used, as here, as evidence that "Coach doesn't use guys until he has to use them and then lo and behlld they're good. Imagine if he had used them earlier!") Sims played 9 mins per game his freshmen year. Not only wasn't he red-shirted, but he was a meaningful rotational player. He played more minutes that year than Julian Vaughn did!In 09-10 it dipped to 6-7 mpg, but he was behind not only Vaughn (who stole some of his time) but a sophomore lottery pick in Greg Monroe, who also had improved year-over-year more than did Sims. Still, he played 6-7 minutes per game. Not exactly Bradley circa 2014-15 minutes. By his junior year he played 14 mpg. That's almost more per game than Brad played this entire year. That's essentially the same amount that Aaron and Tre played on a per game basis this year. He was a major part of that team. Heck, Vaughn only played 23 mpg that year! So, it wasn't like Henry was buried behind him.And he obviously played a ton his senior year. With the exception of the slight dip his sophomore year, his role expanded each and every year under III. To compare the two is wholly and demonstrably wrong. The comparison actually disproves your point. And, finally, on the "JTIII will be forced to use him" point by PR, I disagree. I hope he does get significant time because that will mean we have a viable seven footer with all of the good things that brings. But forced? If Govan is better than Hayes, Govan will get the significant minutes. And if Cope and or Paul get bigger and/or taller (not unreasonable expectations) or if Agau is a good fit, you could easily see us go "small" with one of them in the five slot for a number of minutes per game. Notre Dame is in the Elite Eight and they play guys who are 6'6" or so at the five slot for meaningful minutes.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 27, 2015 9:40:52 GMT -5
Let's not forget that Henry himself has stated he did not commit himself to Basketball until his senior year. And let's also recall the kid was Baltimore's Co-POY.... he was far more advanced than Hayes when he arrived at GU.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 27, 2015 9:43:49 GMT -5
Venky Jois is listed at 6'-8" by ESPN, the same by draft express, CBS Sportsline ect.. EWU's sophomore Milijkovic is 6'-7" Those were their 2 bigs.. Neither are 6'-6".. Why downplay his accomplishments? Especially after seeing Smith & Hopkins fail to take advantage of the same line-up. Jois didn't guard him. When Hayes came in, they intentionally shifted assignments so as to protect Jois from racking up any fouls on Hayes. Jois guarded our PF and their PF guarded Hayes. Fair enough Cambridge..
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 27, 2015 9:45:53 GMT -5
To be specific, Jois was subbed out of the game for most of the time that Hayes was in and it was not even Milijkovic who guarded Hayes. Rather, it was a mixture of Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Brandon (6'4") and, on a couple plays, Harvey (6'4").
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 27, 2015 9:48:24 GMT -5
Hayes camped out under the basket and got offensive rebounds against a small team and didn't get his put-backs blocked by smaller players. Great contribution in that game, but let's not pretend that he made any low post moves or did anything that would have been as successful against Big East competition. He played a total of 27 minutes during Big East play and scored 2 points, grabbed 5 rebounds, and committed 6 fouls and 1 turnover.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 27, 2015 9:49:13 GMT -5
Next year JT3 will be forced to use him. No way getting around it... In a lot of ways, the treatment of Bradley Hayes reminds me of how Henry Sims was treated. Freshmen year not red-shirted and played limited minutes behind Greg Monroe. Then Sims played minimal minutes and had to sit behind a limited Julian Vaughn during his Sophomore and Junior years until JTIII was forced to use Sims in a major/starting role his Senior year. The Sims case was well documented. Henry contributed to how he was played up to his senior year. In Bradley's case, there's not much info. We can only go with what we've seen (I've seen every one of his minutes either live or shown on TV or Web), what JT3 has said ("most improved player over the summer" and "unbelievable") and that last article on him.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 27, 2015 9:53:36 GMT -5
The offseason. Ugh. The horse died long ago but it's the time of year to work on one's swing I guess.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 27, 2015 9:53:58 GMT -5
Hayes camped out under the basket and got offensive rebounds against a small team and didn't get his put-backs blocked by smaller players. Great contribution in that game, but let's not pretend that he made any low post moves or did anything that would have been as successful against Big East competition. He played a total of 27 minutes during Big East play and scored 2 points, grabbed 5 rebounds, and committed 6 fouls and 1 turnover. Hayes career numbers in Big East play: 53 minutes, 6 points, 9 rebounds, 12 fouls.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 27, 2015 9:56:02 GMT -5
What Game? The season would have been different. Hayes should have been the starting Center his sophomore year. I think Hayes would have made a bigger impact on the defensive end of the ball. He is better in Pick and Roll situations as well I think he would have provide more length and quickness to play more zone this year. Wow. Your insights are amazing. Would you be amenable to being hired as a talent scout/recruiter/assistant coach/coach? I mean off relatively little evidence you can reach -- that's the word -- seemingly knowledgeable conclusions. You truly have a GIFT. God bless you! LMAO!! Good One :-)
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 27, 2015 9:59:32 GMT -5
What Game? The season would have been different. Hayes should have been the starting Center his sophomore year. I think Hayes would have made a bigger impact on the defensive end of the ball. He is better in Pick and Roll situations as well I think he would have provide more length and quickness to play more zone this year. I believe everyone can agree Bradley Hayes was the most effective center that night against Eastern Washington. I think that JTIII has a picture of Bradley Hayes that will not change any time soon. The most recent example is the way Hayes dominated Eastern Washington in the 1st half when JTIII was forced to play him. Despite being the 1st half MVP of that game, Bradley Hayes not only did not start the 2nd half but barely played for the rest of the game. Glad Someone else noticed that too. But to JTII defense, Bradley is not ready for Prime Time. He had a good game based strictly on height. Can teach 7 feet.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 27, 2015 10:04:39 GMT -5
To be specific, Jois was subbed out of the game for most of the time that Hayes was in and it was not even Milijkovic who guarded Hayes. Rather, it was a mixture of Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Brandon (6'4") and, on a couple plays, Harvey (6'4"). I don't know where you got your info, but Bradley played 10 mins and Jois played 37 mins. Jois had a great hook over Bradley. He was a total pest in defense and offense. Cambridge, do you know where we could verify how much court they shared? Can we get one of Jois from somewhere in Europe, Australia, etc...?
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 27, 2015 10:05:24 GMT -5
You say Hayes "needed" to play but you do not identify any games that would have ended differently had that happened. The fact that he performed pretty well in the tournament almost proves that extra minutes here and there weren't necessary. The season would have been different, not one game. Pick any game where Smith was off or when he was out of breath and ready to foul. Or, pick any game where Hops was off or had picked his first two fouls in the first half. Why not use Bradley to stretch Hops and Smith's available minutes or pt without foul trouble instead of playing carefully to not pick up the next foul and have to sit or play tired? Why not find out what he can do instead of be surprised every year in March? I don't understand the second sentence. The fact that he performed well when JT3 was forced to use him in the tournament last year proved that he should have been used a lot this season, not wait a year and bring him out when forced in March. Maybe to get Ike and Paul more experience in smaller lineups?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 27, 2015 10:22:16 GMT -5
The season would have been different, not one game. Pick any game where Smith was off or when he was out of breath and ready to foul. Or, pick any game where Hops was off or had picked his first two fouls in the first half. Why not use Bradley to stretch Hops and Smith's available minutes or pt without foul trouble instead of playing carefully to not pick up the next foul and have to sit or play tired? Why not find out what he can do instead of be surprised every year in March? I don't understand the second sentence. The fact that he performed well when JT3 was forced to use him in the tournament last year proved that he should have been used a lot this season, not wait a year and bring him out when forced in March. Maybe to get Ike and Paul more experience in smaller lineups? How did that work out versus EWU and Utah?
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 27, 2015 11:09:18 GMT -5
To be specific, Jois was subbed out of the game for most of the time that Hayes was in and it was not even Milijkovic who guarded Hayes. Rather, it was a mixture of Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Brandon (6'4") and, on a couple plays, Harvey (6'4"). I don't know where you got your info, but Bradley played 10 mins and Jois played 37 mins. Jois had a great hook over Bradley. He was a total pest in defense and offense. Cambridge, do you know where we could verify how much court they shared? Can we get one of Jois from somewhere in Europe, Australia, etc...? Hayes guarding Jois is not the same thing as Jois guarding Hayes.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 27, 2015 11:16:16 GMT -5
Let's not forget that Henry himself has stated he did not commit himself to Basketball until his senior year. And let's also recall the kid was Baltimore's Co-POY.... he was far more advanced than Hayes when he arrived at GU. This is a fallacy that is constantly repeated around here. This article, the main source of the story, was written during his junior year. But because Sims had an even stronger senior year, people mix up the timeline. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/22/AR2010122205084.html
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 27, 2015 11:19:05 GMT -5
I don't know where you got your info, but Bradley played 10 mins and Jois played 37 mins. Jois had a great hook over Bradley. He was a total pest in defense and offense. Cambridge, do you know where we could verify how much court they shared? Can we get one of Jois from somewhere in Europe, Australia, etc...? Hayes guarding Jois is not the same thing as Jois guarding Hayes. Agreed. I was showing that they played together. Jois was part of the frontcourt protecting the rim when Bradley was in. Where they playing man-to-man?
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 27, 2015 11:25:16 GMT -5
To be specific, Jois was subbed out of the game for most of the time that Hayes was in and it was not even Milijkovic who guarded Hayes. Rather, it was a mixture of Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Brandon (6'4") and, on a couple plays, Harvey (6'4"). I don't know where you got your info, but Bradley played 10 mins and Jois played 37 mins. Jois had a great hook over Bradley. He was a total pest in defense and offense. Cambridge, do you know where we could verify how much court they shared? Can we get one of Jois from somewhere in Europe, Australia, etc...? I re-watched the last ten minutes of the first half and looked at the play by play on guhoyas. As you can see from the breakdown of his game play on the offensive end, Hayes was rarely guarded by Jois and often found himself guarded by Bliznyuk, Von Hofe, Harvey, or even Kelly. To be clear, my point is not to take anything away from Hayes, it's merely to put things in perspective. 9:17: Hayes subs in. Jois subs out. EWU lineup is now: Milijkovic (6'7"), Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Harvey (6'4"), and Brandon (6'4"). 9:05-8:37: Milijkovic started out guarding Hayes in the post, trying to front him. Hayes goes up to the top of the key and due to a defensive switch Harvey ends up guarding Hayes at he cuts to the rim. Hayes sheds Harvey with a stiff arm to the chest as DSR shots a baseline jumper. Hayes grabs the board over Brandon, then lays it in over a helping Bliznyuk. 8:12-7:57: Bliznyuk started out guarding Hayes. Hayes boxes out Bliznyuk when Campbell launches a three. Hayes grabs offensive rebound over Bliznyuk and Harvey. Put it back up for a layup over Bliznyuk and a helping Von Hofe. 7:38-7:18: Milijkovic stared out guarding Hayes, but immediately switches to DSR leaving Harvey on Hayes. Hayes cuts to post and is immediately doubled by Harvey and Von Hofe. Hayes kicks it out. Von Hofe stays on Hayes. Bowman drives into lane and sinks a jumper for an and-one. 7:18: Jois subs back in. EWU lineup is now: Jois (6'8"), Milijkovic (6'7"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Harvey (6'4"), and Brandon (6'4") 6:59-6:40: Hayes guarded by Milijkovic. Jois is on White. Bowman hits jumper. 6:20-6:08: DSR steals the ball and pushes it with Bowman and Trawick before getting fouled by Von Hofe at midcourt. On the inbound, Milijkovic guards Hayes in paint. Jois is on White. Milijkovic switches onto DSR, leaving Harvey on Hayes. Hayes catches pass in the post, Von Hofe comes over to help Harvey, doubling him up. Jois loses White, Hayes finds him cutting for an assist on the layup. 5:50-5:14: Hayes guarded by Milijkovic in the post. Jois on White. Jois knocks a fairly ill-advised Trawick baseline pass ball out of bounds. On the inbound, Milijkovic is on Hayes. Hayes sets a screen for Campbell. Rolls into paint with Milijkovic fronting him. Comes back out to set screen for White. Milijkovic sticks with him when he rolls back into the paint. Trawick hits three. 4:57: Brandon subs out. EWU lineup is now: Jois (6'8"), Milijkovic (6'7"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Harvey (6'4"), and Kelly (6'4") 4:57-4:40: After the Harvey-Trawick kerfuffle, on the inbounds, Hayes is guarded by Milijkovic. Jois is on White. Milijkovic switches onto Bowman, leaving Kelly on Hayes. Trawick misses a three. Kelly, Harvey and Milijkovic crash to glass with Hayes. Hayes gets rebound and is fouled by Harvey when he goes up for put back (missed). Hayes hits both free throws. 4:40: Von Hofe and Milijkovic sub out. EWU lineup is now: Jois (6'8"), Bliznyuk (6'6"), Brandon (6'4"), Harvey (6'4"), and Kelly (6'4") 4:27-4:05: Jois initially guards Hayes in the post. Hayes comes out to set screen for White and gets ball at top of key. Jois sticks with Hayes. Campbell cuts to basket and Hayes throws pass. Campbell catches and bounces it back out to Trawick in corner. Trawick drives in, Jois collapses and Bliznyuk picks up Hayes. Trawick passes to Bowen under the hoop. Jois switches back onto Hayes. Bowan draws Jois over who "blocks" Bowen. Kelly switches onto Hayes and tries to box out Hayes. Bowen gets own rebound and goes up again, drawing a foul. He bricks his free throws. 3:40-3:10: Campbell steals and pushes it with Bowman, before pulling it back and waiting to set up offense. Hayes is initialyl guarded by Kelly in the post, before Bliznyuk switches onto him. Then after setting a screen, Kelly switches back onto Hayes as he cuts to the basket. Bowen hits a three. 2:41-2:25: Hayes is initially guarded by Jois in the post. Hayes comes up and gets the ball outside the key. Jois still on him. Hayes passes to Campbell, then sets a screen. Campbell hits a three. 1:58-1:31: Hayes grabs defensive rebound (having muscled Jois off the ball). He is initially guarded by Jois down at the other end. Bowen drives into the lane, drawing Jois over to help Kelly who is guarding Bowen. Bliznyuk switches onto Hayes, with Brandon helping. Bowen shoots contested jumper in the paint, misses, and Hayes a jumper, misses. Hayes gets the rebound over Bliznyuk and immediately puts it back up for a layup. 1:12-1:09: Campbell steals it and takes it in for an uncontested fast break layup. 1:00-0:42: Hayes with defensive rebound off missed three (boxing out Jois and Brandon). Hayes is initially guarded by Jois at other end, but after setting screen for DSR, Jois switches onto DSR and Harvey switches onto Hayes as Hayes rolls into the paint. DSR hits three over Jois. 0:18: Harvey, Jois and Kelly sub out. EWU lineup is now: Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Moon (6'5"), Brandon (6'4"), and Washington (6'3") 0:18-0:11: Hayes is initially guarded by Bliznyuk, but after he sets screen for Bowman Bliznyuk switches, leaving Von Hofe on Hayes. Bowman slashes and dances into the paint, but ends up throwing up a heavily contested layup that misses. Hayes gets initial tip (uncredited) but misses. Bliznyuk gets rebound. Half essentially ends.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 27, 2015 11:26:06 GMT -5
The offseason. Ugh. The horse died long ago but it's the time of year to work on one's swing I guess. You have to really dedicate yourself in the offseason, otherwise you won't be ready for the season. If we don't beat the dead horse now, how are we going to be ready to beat the dead horse during Big East play? Let's be honest--a few minutes of dead horse beating when we are playing cream puffs in December isn't going to make much of a difference if we need to beat the dead horse in February or March.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 27, 2015 11:39:35 GMT -5
I don't know where you got your info, but Bradley played 10 mins and Jois played 37 mins. Jois had a great hook over Bradley. He was a total pest in defense and offense. Cambridge, do you know where we could verify how much court they shared? Can we get one of Jois from somewhere in Europe, Australia, etc...? I re-watched the last ten minutes of the first half and looked at the play by play on guhoyas. As you can see from the breakdown of his game play on the offensive end, Hayes was rarely guarded by Jois and often found himself guarded by Bliznyuk, Von Hofe, Harvey, or even Kelly. To be clear, my point is not to take anything away from Hayes, it's merely to put things in perspective. 9:17: Hayes subs in. Jois subs out. EWU lineup is now: Milijkovic (6'7"), Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Harvey (6'4"), and Brandon (6'4"). 9:05-8:37: Milijkovic started out guarding Hayes in the post, trying to front him. Hayes goes up to the top of the key and due to a defensive switch Harvey ends up guarding Hayes at he cuts to the rim. Hayes sheds Harvey with a stiff arm to the chest as DSR shots a baseline jumper. Hayes grabs the board over Brandon, then lays it in over a helping Bliznyuk. 8:12-7:57: Bliznyuk started out guarding Hayes. Hayes boxes out Bliznyuk when Campbell launches a three. Hayes grabs offensive rebound over Bliznyuk and Harvey. Put it back up for a layup over Bliznyuk and a helping Von Hofe. 7:38-7:18: Milijkovic stared out guarding Hayes, but immediately switches to DSR leaving Harvey on Hayes. Hayes cuts to post and is immediately doubled by Harvey and Von Hofe. Hayes kicks it out. Von Hofe stays on Hayes. Bowman drives into lane and sinks a jumper for an and-one. 7:18: Jois subs back in. EWU lineup is now: Jois (6'8"), Milijkovic (6'7"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Harvey (6'4"), and Brandon (6'4") 6:59-6:40: Hayes guarded by Milijkovic. Jois is on White. Bowman hits jumper. 6:20-6:08: DSR steals the ball and pushes it with Bowman and Trawick before getting fouled by Von Hofe at midcourt. On the inbound, Milijkovic guards Hayes in paint. Jois is on White. Milijkovic switches onto DSR, leaving Harvey on Hayes. Hayes catches pass in the post, Von Hofe comes over to help Harvey, doubling him up. Jois loses White, Hayes finds him cutting for an assist on the layup. 5:50-5:14: Hayes guarded by Milijkovic in the post. Jois on White. Jois knocks a fairly ill-advised Trawick baseline pass ball out of bounds. On the inbound, Milijkovic is on Hayes. Hayes sets a screen for Campbell. Rolls into paint with Milijkovic fronting him. Comes back out to set screen for White. Milijkovic sticks with him when he rolls back into the paint. Trawick hits three. 4:57: Brandon subs out. EWU lineup is now: Jois (6'8"), Milijkovic (6'7"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Harvey (6'4"), and Kelly (6'4") 4:57-4:40: After the Harvey-Trawick kerfuffle, on the inbounds, Hayes is guarded by Milijkovic. Jois is on White. Milijkovic switches onto Bowman, leaving Kelly on Hayes. Trawick misses a three. Kelly, Harvey and Milijkovic crash to glass with Hayes. Hayes gets rebound and is fouled by Harvey when he goes up for put back (missed). Hayes hits both free throws. 4:40: Von Hofe and Milijkovic sub out. EWU lineup is now: Jois (6'8"), Bliznyuk (6'6"), Brandon (6'4"), Harvey (6'4"), and Kelly (6'4") 4:27-4:05: Jois initially guards Hayes in the post. Hayes comes out to set screen for White and gets ball at top of key. Jois sticks with Hayes. Campbell cuts to basket and Hayes throws pass. Campbell catches and bounces it back out to Trawick in corner. Trawick drives in, Jois collapses and Bliznyuk picks up Hayes. Trawick passes to Bowen under the hoop. Jois switches back onto Hayes. Bowan draws Jois over who "blocks" Bowen. Kelly switches onto Hayes and tries to box out Hayes. Bowen gets own rebound and goes up again, drawing a foul. He bricks his free throws. 3:40-3:10: Campbell steals and pushes it with Bowman, before pulling it back and waiting to set up offense. Hayes is initialyl guarded by Kelly in the post, before Bliznyuk switches onto him. Then after setting a screen, Kelly switches back onto Hayes as he cuts to the basket. Bowen hits a three. 2:41-2:25: Hayes is initially guarded by Jois in the post. Hayes comes up and gets the ball outside the key. Jois still on him. Hayes passes to Campbell, then sets a screen. Campbell hits a three. 1:58-1:31: Hayes grabs defensive rebound (having muscled Jois off the ball). He is initially guarded by Jois down at the other end. Bowen drives into the lane, drawing Jois over to help Kelly who is guarding Bowen. Bliznyuk switches onto Hayes, with Brandon helping. Bowen shoots contested jumper in the paint, misses, and Hayes a jumper, misses. Hayes gets the rebound over Bliznyuk and immediately puts it back up for a layup. 1:12-1:09: Campbell steals it and takes it in for an uncontested fast break layup. 1:00-0:42: Hayes with defensive rebound off missed three (boxing out Jois and Brandon). Hayes is initially guarded by Jois at other end, but after setting screen for DSR, Jois switches onto DSR and Harvey switches onto Hayes as Hayes rolls into the paint. DSR hits three over Jois. 0:18: Harvey, Jois and Kelly sub out. EWU lineup is now: Bliznyuk (6'6"), Von Hofe (6'5"), Moon (6'5"), Brandon (6'4"), and Washington (6'3") 0:18-0:11: Hayes is initially guarded by Bliznyuk, but after he sets screen for Bowman Bliznyuk switches, leaving Von Hofe on Hayes. Bowman slashes and dances into the paint, but ends up throwing up a heavily contested layup that misses. Hayes gets initial tip (uncredited) but misses. Bliznyuk gets rebound. Half essentially ends. Good stuff! I erased the game(s) after the Utah game.
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