EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 12, 2014 12:10:06 GMT -5
We heard this same excuse used for AB over the years and now he's the poster child for what consistent game time can do for a player. I'll admit Domingo has had some chances and done nothing with them but I'd still rather see him than Caprio. Hayes on the other hand has never been giving any type of look and 2 years of his eligibility is gone for a total of 27 mins of court time. It's shameful in my opinion, let the kids go if you have no use for them.. I will say this though, to their credit they support their team and look to be into the game... Interesting point of view. Is your father a Hall of Fame basketball coach? Did you play and study at the knee of another Hall of Famer? No? Then, I am probably to defer to the coach who did....not to be harsh or anything. No, you wouldn't want to be harsh.. Thanks for being so kind
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 12, 2014 12:14:23 GMT -5
I actually liked what Nate brought to the offense. Those who are blinded by Nate negativity fail to see that he ignited an 11-4 run to open the game, when Nate scores early it is big for this team. He doesn't score a lot but he also doesn't miss many attempts at all. He was the victim of a few of the more ridiculous foul calls in this game from Marshall flopping and acting. He gets tough rebounds and is a great on court communicator. Clearly he lacks tangibles, but he is valued for being a coach on the court. When you are down two starters and you got a freshman making his first start it's nice to have a guy like Nate who is smart enough and confident enough to be a vocal leader directing traffic. I give him a lot of credit for getting guys ready, directing traffic, and willing his team to win. I'm befuddled that he never developed much if any of a shot in his college career. I also don't understand why so much of our fan base doesn't see that Nate does everything that most players don't want to do and genuinely cares about others development. Those traits are admirable and the reason why he has been a wire to wire starter. You just described a guy who should be getting 10-15 minutes a game. Not 30, which is what Nate's getting. The best thing that happened to us last night was him fouling out. Had he stayed in the game, we would've lost going away down the stretch guaranteed. I'm 35 years old and have watched almost every game our program has played for the last 30 years. I'm struggling to remember a guy who gets 30 minutes a game so undeservedly. He's a glue guy who has a tremendous amount of respect from his teammates and coaches. We would not have won that game without him. Not saying I wasn't frustrated with Nate at times, but he did enough little things right to earn a gritty win. Have some respect.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2014 12:15:31 GMT -5
Caprio got the minutes ahead of Domingo and Hayes because what was needed at the time was someone who would run the offense and pass to Starks or DSR without not turning the ball over and someone who could switch on screens on defense. Butler was not feeding the low post. They were driving or shooting jumpers. Caprio's defense at the end of regulation forced the guard to pass for the missed jumper. Caprio is also surprisingly a decent rebounder. Averaged 1 rebound every 2.3 minutes last year and snagged 4 rebounds yesterday.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 12, 2014 12:18:16 GMT -5
You just described a guy who should be getting 10-15 minutes a game. Not 30, which is what Nate's getting. The best thing that happened to us last night was him fouling out. Had he stayed in the game, we would've lost going away down the stretch guaranteed. I'm 35 years old and have watched almost every game our program has played for the last 30 years. I'm struggling to remember a guy who gets 30 minutes a game so undeservedly. He's a glue guy who has a tremendous amount of respect from his teammates and coaches. We would not have won that game without him. Not saying I wasn't frustrated with Nate at times, but he did enough little things right to earn a gritty win. Have some respect. except we did win the game without him. Lol. You must be his cousin
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2014 12:25:09 GMT -5
AB has improved his play by a wide margin from the beginning of the year till now.. At the start of the year he was still making the same mistakes we'd seen in previous years both offensively and defensively.. He's a legit defender now and last night the way he passed on jumpers and attacked his man was a great sign of maturity. I never said JT3 doesn't play freshman either I know that he does.. However go check how much was Cameron playing when Jabril was healthy and Josh was eligible? AB started to do well last year. People seem to forget this. In fact the Aaron Bowen thread was created last year after his stellar performance against Louisville. He was getting significant contributing minutes last year as opposed to garbage time minutes his first year. The arguement people seem to be making is that youngsters Domingo and Hayes should play more minutes because they will improve by in game play. Then a 4 year player Aaron Bowen is used as an example of how increased minutes can lead to better play so Domingo and Hayes should get more minutes. But those two things don't follow because you are comparing Aaron Bowen a 4 year player whose worked for 4 years under the system and has improved his skill set and been gradually worked into the rotation starting with last year to two sophomores in Domingo and Hayes.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 12, 2014 12:32:29 GMT -5
Interesting point of view. Is your father a Hall of Fame basketball coach? Did you play and study at the knee of another Hall of Famer? No? Then, I am probably to defer to the coach who did....not to be harsh or anything. No, you wouldn't want to be harsh.. Thanks for being so kind Sometimes we just need to consider the implication of what we post.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 12, 2014 12:49:33 GMT -5
Some random observations on the game: 1. Domingo getting zero minutes in a game with a depleted roster and three players fouling out tells us exactly what JTIII thinks of him. The fact that Caprio is ahead of him on the depth chart is very telling. t I don't think it's very telling. Caprio has been around here 4 years. Domingo is still early in his 2nd year (and JTiII hesitates putting in youngsters who make too many mistakes and don't provide a net positive) and can only play small forward or guard. Since DSR and Starks take up all the minutes at the guard spots that leaves the 3 which is shared by Cameron and Bowen. Domingo doesn't have the muscle or strength to play the 4 or 5 and we were in trouble a those too spots. Caprio was somehow able to play 4 and 5 against Butler. If u saw the game last night, which I assume u did...Cameron doesn't have the muscle to play the 4 or 5 either....maybe even the 3...I saw one too many times rebound just get taken from either.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 12, 2014 12:58:21 GMT -5
Bowen isn't playing better because he is getting more minutes so much as he is getting more minutes because he improved. III had him as our sixth man since the first game of the season. That wouldn't have been the case if he didn't think he had made strides since last year. In addition he was playing pretty good minutes last year, even if it was on an inconsistent basis. People don't just magically improve because they are given more playing time, though clearly many here seem to think so. More playing will get a player more comfortable and let him show the FAN'S what they are capable of. However, actual basketball skill improvement doesn't happen with more game time. Bowen is still a hit or miss player, but he is a better finisher and in more control and that is because of off-season improvement, which is why he has seen increased minutes. That and not having to compete with Otto and Greg for playing time.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2014 13:00:01 GMT -5
t I don't think it's very telling. Caprio has been around here 4 years. Domingo is still early in his 2nd year (and JTiII hesitates putting in youngsters who make too many mistakes and don't provide a net positive) and can only play small forward or guard. Since DSR and Starks take up all the minutes at the guard spots that leaves the 3 which is shared by Cameron and Bowen. Domingo doesn't have the muscle or strength to play the 4 or 5 and we were in trouble a those too spots. Caprio was somehow able to play 4 and 5 against Butler. If u saw the game last night, which I assume u did...Cameron doesn't have the muscle to play the 4 or 5 either. Cameron 6-7 225 lbs vs Domingo 6-6 206 lbs. Seems obvious to me who the bigger guy is even just looking at them. What's you're point?
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 12, 2014 13:00:51 GMT -5
If u saw the game last night, which I assume u did...Cameron doesn't have the muscle to play the 4 or 5 either. Cameron 6-7 225 lbs vs Domingo 6-6 206 lbs. Seems obvious to me who the bigger guy is even just looking at them. What's you're point? The point is Cameron lacks rebounding strength.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2014 13:05:00 GMT -5
Cameron 6-7 225 lbs vs Domingo 6-6 206 lbs. Seems obvious to me who the bigger guy is even just looking at them. What's you're point? The point is Cameron lacks rebounding strength. I'd rather him at the 4 or 5 than Domingo if those are the options. You disgaree?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2014 13:05:20 GMT -5
Couple things according to the Box Nate only played 15 min… If Ab is the poster child for what increased minutes can get you than I’m definitely not sold. Minutes aren’t given their earned and hopefully those guys are putting in the time off the court to earn those minutes…
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 12, 2014 13:06:07 GMT -5
People are forgetting that last year and this season that Bowen had a quick hook in games too...and despite mistakes his leash has gotten longer.
Also I dont know what is going on with Nate in practice, but there is no way someone can see his shot and not say we need to work this...he has to be passing up shots, taking awkward free throw shots in practice too..that is why his issues are not all his fault..the coaching staff needs to work with him more on this
Apparently he came him with the hype of being able to go to the next level and now....
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 12, 2014 13:08:03 GMT -5
He's a glue guy who has a tremendous amount of respect from his teammates and coaches. We would not have won that game without him. Not saying I wasn't frustrated with Nate at times, but he did enough little things right to earn a gritty win. Have some respect. except we did win the game without him. Lol. You must be his cousin We won by 3 and he had 6 points. The only guy who could really take those minutes from him at the 4 is Hopkins. He was 1-6 last night. Your reasoning, negativity, and general basketball sense is lol
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 12, 2014 13:08:47 GMT -5
No, you wouldn't want to be harsh.. Thanks for being so kind Sometimes we just need to consider the implication of what we post. Your sarcasm meter needs to be calibrated JW..
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 12, 2014 13:13:21 GMT -5
The point is Cameron lacks rebounding strength. I'd rather him at the 4 or 5 than Domingo if those are the options. You disgaree? Both guys coming in seemed as hyped as the 2014 class.... I think it is 1/2 dozen of the other...next game JTIII may give Domingo more playing time over Cameron...who knows... We have seen it reversed where Domingo gets in before Cameron, so it might be a game to game decision.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2014 13:17:49 GMT -5
Also I dont know what is going on with Nate in practice, but there is no way someone can see his shot and not say we need to work this...he has to be passing up shots, taking awkward free throw shots in practice too..that is why his issues are not all his fault..the coaching staff needs to work with him more on this One thing we could really use is a great shooting assistant coach or aide. Seems so important for the Princeton to operate properly. Kind of like what Andy Enflield has done his whole career. Now granted sometimes things are impossible to fix. And I think that may be the case with Lubick. It's too late to tinker with his form this year. It's better that he doesn't shoot from outside rather than result in an automatic turnover. Look at Jeremiah, he hired a shooting coach after his freshman year and shot 1000s of jumpers during the summer and still had a horrible shot. If you've shot one way for 10-15 years like Lubick and Jeremiah have then those bad habits become very hard to correct.
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 12, 2014 13:22:29 GMT -5
Also I dont know what is going on with Nate in practice, but there is no way someone can see his shot and not say we need to work this...he has to be passing up shots, taking awkward free throw shots in practice too..that is why his issues are not all his fault..the coaching staff needs to work with him more on this One thing we could really use is a great shooting assistant coach or aide. Seems so important for the Princeton to operate properly. Kind of like what Andy Enflield has done his whole career. Now granted sometimes things are impossible to fix. And I think that may be the case with Lubick. It's too late to tinker with his form this year. It's better that he doesn't shoot from outside rather than result in an automatic turnover. Look at Jeremiah, he hired a shooting coach after his freshman year and shot 1000s of jumpers during the summer and still had a horrible shot. If you've shot one way for 10-15 years like Lubick and Jeremiah have then those bad habits become very hard to correct. This is exactly what the conversation about Nate should be. From a basketball standpoint the easiest thing to add to your game is a shot.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 12, 2014 13:27:12 GMT -5
So I had tickets for the game and was planning to drive down from Chicago with my son to watch the game.
But then a business trip game up to Germany with the return flight on Saturday. As soon as I got home after travelling 13 or so hours, I would have had to jump in the car and drive 3 hours to barely make the tip-off. I decided that would be too much and I would be too tired.
Damn...I wish I could have been at that game. It would have been one to remember for a long time.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 12, 2014 13:51:27 GMT -5
except we did win the game without him. Lol. You must be his cousin We won by 3 and he had 6 points. The only guy who could really take those minutes from him at the 4 is Hopkins. He was 1-6 last night. Your reasoning, negativity, and general basketball sense is lol So Nate fouled out. We went down by three. We came back and won the game. With Nate on the bench. We won without him last night. This is counter productive so I'm bowing out. I love Nate and what he brings. He just needs his minutes cut in half. But again, I love his intangibles. By the way, in my real life I'm a college basketball analyst for one of the biggest conferences in the country. I get paid quite handsomely to do this. So apparently, someone who signs checks thinks a heck of a lot of my general basketball sense. But nice try at an empty insult
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