rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 16, 2014 17:58:10 GMT -5
"Aaron Bowen with a higher ceiling" is the wrong way to describe any player we're recruiting. If we're recruiting them, they've got to have a higher ceiling than Aaron Bowen. Jabril is also a terrible comparison. Jabril is a decent athlete, in terms of measurables, but he doesn't play the game athletically. He's never going to be much more than what he is now, which is a very average D1 guard. You're just a hater. Aaron Bowen has a higher ceiling than you want to give him credit for. Injuries and the order of the depth chart is what slowed his development. If you can't see his continued improvement and room to grow then I don't know what team you're watching.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 16, 2014 20:48:56 GMT -5
AB is at best an average guard. He has good athleticism but limitations for handle and general control. Bril has incredible intensity but limited skills. They are both parts of the puzzle. We need other parts - better parts.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 16, 2014 21:25:09 GMT -5
AB is at best an average guard. He has good athleticism but limitations for handle and general control. Bril has incredible intensity but limited skills. They are both parts of the puzzle. We need other parts - better parts. Bingo.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jun 17, 2014 6:58:34 GMT -5
Just how many minutes did AB play as a 2? He may be listed on the roster at guard but his time was at the three. seems like he was behind Caprio on the depth chart in the backcourt for most of the season.
The reality is we have only 3 guards going forward into this season (discounting Peak) We are an injury and or foul trouble away from being devasted. Never mind the 2015 season. Yes everyone is rightfully excited about this and next years class but unless we start adding decent quality in the backcourt IMHO we are in fact regressing.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jun 17, 2014 7:28:07 GMT -5
Just how many minutes did AB play as a 2? He may be listed on the roster at guard but his time was at the three. seems like he was behind Caprio on the depth chart in the backcourt for most of the season. The reality is we have only 3 guards going forward into this season (discounting Peak) We are an injury and or foul trouble away from being devasted. Never mind the 2015 season. Yes everyone is rightfully excited about this and next years class but unless we start adding decent quality in the backcourt IMHO we are in fact regressing. LOL. And the 83-84 team only had 4 guards. And the '11-'12 team only had Starks, Clark, Trawick and Bowen. Everyone knows we need guards going forward but the chicken little stuff is hilarious. You can discount Peak, and even White who can handle the ball, and then run for this hills in a panic.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 17, 2014 7:46:22 GMT -5
I do not believe that the Bowen comparison is appropriate. Josh is already an elite defender and would come in as the best defending guard that we have had since AI. As Rayshawn Reed's only fan, I take exception to that statement. I would always take a Ray Reed. A guy who is a star on defense but limited on offense is just as valuable- probably more- than a guy who is a star on offense but limited on defense. FWIW, that was a clean steal Reed had versus YouCon toward the end of the 2005 Big East tournament game.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jun 17, 2014 8:20:32 GMT -5
83-84 is not a comparison its an entirely different game today. But numbers mean little when you had Jackson, Smith, Brown, Broadnax and throw in Wingate who had better guard skills than anyone on last years team with the exception of Starks. I guess you missed how well we played last year without Trawick. The facts are petty clear, DSR a very good college 2 questions remain about his ability to be a prime ballhandler even if we go back to our past system.Trawick a very average college player a good defender, and a freshman point and we know how long it took Starks to figure it out. Yes on paper we appear to have made great improvements on an under .500 performing team in the BE. I happen to believe that the loss of Starks weakens the backcourt significantly. Almost to the point where lack of depth,ability and talent there creates a push in comparing this years team to last. What I find Hilarious is anyone who considers Bowen a guard but then again we list him as such.
Its not a chicken little thing at all. For too long many here wants us to run, press push the ball, get out of of the zone, etc etc. You have very little options when you don't have the depth or the talent. Its starts in the backcourt.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jun 17, 2014 9:27:42 GMT -5
83-84 is not a comparison its an entirely different game today. But numbers mean little when you had Jackson, Smith, Brown, Broadnax and throw in Wingate who had better guard skills than anyone on last years team with the exception of Starks. I guess you missed how well we played last year without Trawick. The facts are petty clear, DSR a very good college 2 questions remain about his ability to be a prime ballhandler even if we go back to our past system.Trawick a very average college player a good defender, and a freshman point and we know how long it took Starks to figure it out. Yes on paper we appear to have made great improvements on an under .500 performing team in the BE. I happen to believe that the loss of Starks weakens the backcourt significantly. Almost to the point where lack of depth,ability and talent there creates a push in comparing this years team to last. What I find Hilarious is anyone who considers Bowen a guard but then again we list him as such. Its not a chicken little thing at all. For too long many here wants us to run, press push the ball, get out of of the zone, etc etc. You have very little options when you don't have the depth or the talent. Its starts in the backcourt. Bowen was listed as a guard for his first few years but pretty sure he was listed as a forward this past year. Agree that he is not even close to being a guard skill-wise. Just thought your post was a bit dramatic, with words like "devastating" and "regressing" in there. If we lost Starks to injury last year, that would have been devastating. I just happen to think we are in better shape this year to handle the loss of a ballhandler, since we have enough players - albeit some of them unproven -- who can help handle the ball. As I said, I don't think anyone would dispute that we could use another guard on the roster and we obviously need to bring some in next year and the year after.
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Jun 17, 2014 9:31:59 GMT -5
Veering back on-topic, Josh visiting GW today per his twitter feed... As I recall he said at the start of the AAU season he'd decide by the end of it where he was going, so this may be the final due diligence tour. Blueandgray, any encouraging word/thoughts? twitter.com/jreaves23
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jun 17, 2014 9:59:41 GMT -5
By all accounts the visit went very well. If there was any confusion as to where Josh may have stood in terms of his importance to the team, there is none now. He is a priority.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jun 17, 2014 10:14:09 GMT -5
Filo Yes I may overeact a bit. I just hate to see what we are accomplishing go to waste. Ideally I want 2 guards for 15 would have prefered one more this year and one next to provide depth and experience for the 15 season. Clearly my expectations are much lower than most for this year. But until we see them on the court in January its just speculation anyways. I hope I'm wrong and you are more than welcome remind me.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 17, 2014 10:30:29 GMT -5
I agree we are a bit light on guards and would ideally bring in 2 for 2015-2016, but I think the overall quality of the rest of our players gives us a little bit more flexibility. This past year, we had to rely on our guards a lot because they were the only players who had any offensive ability and our frontcourt was abysmal.
I think the 2015-2016 team will rely a lot more on the frontcourt for offense, and I think JT3 is likely to throw out bigger lineups than we saw last year, probably with only 2 guards, at maximum. In light of that, I think that senior DSR, sophomore Campbell, Peak, and a 2015 guard would be sufficient. I'd prefer to have another guard in there if possible for depth, but I think we could easily be fine with that group unless we faced multiple injuries.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 11:16:47 GMT -5
We absolutely need guards but 06/07 we had Sapp Wallace Rivers Ty Crawford…. It is what it is..
Still Would be really nice to sign a guy that can create of the bounce though… Could be the difference between really good and elite
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 17, 2014 11:26:07 GMT -5
Just thought your post was a bit dramatic, with words like "devastating" and "regressing" in there. A bit dramatic? I thought that chicken little description was apropos.
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Post by daymondmyles on Jun 17, 2014 12:24:41 GMT -5
My guess is that Reaves is priority number 1 now.
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Jun 17, 2014 12:54:50 GMT -5
By all accounts the visit went very well. If there was any confusion as to where Josh may have stood in terms of his importance to the team, there is none now. He is a priority. Excellent -- thanks for the report. Hopefully between that priority by us and the DSR/Marcus connection (new school and old), and his own statements about putting a priority on academics, we're very well positioned here. I think a quick decision will favor us...
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 17, 2014 16:56:30 GMT -5
What I find Hilarious is anyone who considers Bowen a guard but then again we list him as such. Well, we went four years listing Jon Wallace as a guard too. But other than his ability to hit an outside shot when left wide open (money!) he didn't display all that many characteristics of a guard. I guess at his height we had no other choice but to call him that. After watching the Kentucky team's run in this NCAA tournament, I came away thinking I'm not sure that team had the real, legit guards you would expect from a contender. The Harrison twins had their difficulties early on. I'm not insane enough to place Trawick and Bowen in that class of talent, but what I am saying is that thanks to some coaching and some on-court development the twins got better, more comfortable with guard duties. They were't fast enough or good enough with the ball to break down opposing guards, but they used their height advantage to overcome their deficiencies.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 17, 2014 17:21:20 GMT -5
What I find Hilarious is anyone who considers Bowen a guard but then again we list him as such. Well, we went four years listing Jon Wallace as a guard too. But other than his ability to hit an outside shot when left wide open (money!) he didn't display all that many characteristics of a guard. I guess at his height we had no other choice but to call him that. After watching the Kentucky team's run in this NCAA tournament, I came away thinking I'm not sure that team had the real, legit guards you would expect from a contender. The Harrison twins had their difficulties early on. I'm not insane enough to place Trawick and Bowen in that class of talent, but what I am saying is that thanks to some coaching and some on-court development the twins got better, more comfortable with guard duties. They were't fast enough or good enough with the ball to break down opposing guards, but they used their height advantage to overcome their deficiencies. Incremental improvement isn't a concept easily digested around these parts...
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jun 18, 2014 7:43:41 GMT -5
[/quote]Incremental improvement isn't a concept easily digested around these parts... [/quote]
But it is the key to our next several years. The fact is if we want to win, numerous players need to continue to develop:
- Smith needs to lose weight and improve on defense - DSR needs to improve his handle and lead guard skills - Jabril needs to be more consistent with his shot and more careful with the ball - Hopkins needs to get stronger and finish better - Bowen needs to improve his handle and shot - Etc.
That does not even mention the freshmen, all of whom surely have myriad things to work on (and of course the same will be true for the next set of freshmen). If this team puts in average work and shows average improvement as a result, expect fairly average results. The Hoyas will have an elite squad if and only if they all go to town on improving their respective games.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jun 18, 2014 10:56:58 GMT -5
I'd be thrilled to land Reaves and think he has tremendous upside. I would not want to bring the ball up against a 1-2-2 zone press fronted by the long arms of Copeland, followed by the athleticism of Peak and Reaves on the wings. That could be special.
In the Washington Post's first-team all-met photo, Reaves appears to be 1 inch taller than Haynes and the same height as Trier and Wiley (if you subtract out the flat top haircuts). Reaves looks every bit of 6'4", perhaps a shade taller. I think Wiley and Trier's listed heights of 6'5" are probably a smidge inflated.
With our current roster and signed recruits, beyond Tre Campbell, who is supposedly a nice, but nowhere near elite recruit, we have no true PG. Two of DSR, Jabril, Peak, and hopefully Reaves will need to develop some solid backup PG skills.
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