njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 25, 2015 0:50:35 GMT -5
Let me try to understand your position. In Saturday's game, L.J. Peak played five minutes and Jabril Trawick played ten minutes, both due to injury. Reggie Cameron played a whole four minutes (out of 45), so that our remaining healthy guards could get a short rest, The Hoyas win a game in overtime, in a hostile environment, with all of their usual player rotations out of whack. And you question why Cameron even got four minutes of time? Are you serious?
Has he contributed up to this point, as we had hoped? No. Nonetheless, I'm not ready to throw him under the bus. There will come a game this season when he will hit an important shot.
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Jan 25, 2015 1:14:07 GMT -5
Seriously don't get the Reggie hate.
He has not played well with his opportunities. I get it. He was billed as a shooter and he has been very ordinary in that. He got some run early in the season but the freshman passed him by. He rarely gets time now. We were severely depleted today and he got some mins. He didn't play well. It was a small sample in today's game. I'm sure you could find a 4 min stretch where all our guys played poorly. ( just guessing)
All that said. I've really noticed him on the bench this year. He is FULLY engaged. Honestly he has a great attitude on the bench (from watching).
Who knows what next season holds. I wouldn't begrudge the kid if he transferred. And if he stays and try's to make something happen. He could be something like the next Bowen or dj Owens. And that would be great too.
Either way. Lay the F off the kid. He is a kid. And you are being ridiculous.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 25, 2015 1:26:58 GMT -5
Why is this kid getting minutes? There was a sequence midway through the second half against Marquette, shortly after Cameron was put in, during which (1) he looks the other way as his guy goes right by him for a layup, then on the other end (2) he front-rims a quick three and (3) stands around as the rebounder outlets to his man for one of Marquette's only transition buckets of the afternoon. And that's pretty typical. I watched every minute of Bennimon's and Mescheriakov's uniquely distinguished careers at G'town, and I've never seen a Hoya who has more definitively earned a spot at the end of the bench. The kid is 100% useless (and often worse) on both ends of the floor. Please, someone, tell me why this team needs a three who is unacquainted with the concept of defense and whose offensive skillset consists solely of jumpers that would have been perfect if only the NCAA hadn't moved the three-point line back by six inches a few a years ago. You do realize we had 2 people hurt. This post has a bunch of flaws. People are acting as though he never made a shot as a freshman. He did hit 25 3s last year right. Too early to give up on anyone. He wants to be here let him stay. Never know when the light clicks on. Aaron was doing similar as a soph.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 25, 2015 1:31:02 GMT -5
Yes, I'm serious. I don't think I wrote anything that should have been controversial. My position is that a player who very personally causes four-, five-, or six-point swings in the wrong direction in just four minutes shouldn't be getting those four minutes. He's had similar short stints in four previous conference games with similar results. His OOC performance was little better. The kid should not be on the floor. The major reason I'm confused is that there is zero reason to have Cameron on the floor in the first place. He doesn't sub for the guards and isn't a ball handler. If Trawick and Peak are out, there are numerous rotations consisting of some combination of ten other players that cover the three spot. If you need outside shooting, Cameron's one supposed offensive skill, you can get it in comparative spades by plugging in any of the other guards or forwards. You might get better defense out of a four-man lineup. I'm not angry. Your responses don't make sense. Bradley Hayes and David Allen practice hard every day too, but JT3 doesn't put them in for a disastrous three or four possessions every other game. Frankly, I would rather see any other bench player out there in Cameron's place, but I don't see why anybody's reaching for an eleventh man at all. Bowen and Paul had 3 and 4 fouls at this point. JT3 needed someone. He has more confidence in Reggie than you. David Allen out there rather than Cameron...err ok. That ends where I respond.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 25, 2015 2:43:21 GMT -5
Clearly JT3 has more confidence in Cameron than I do. I'm just trying to figure out why. Cameron's shot has been way off all season—always front rim—and his defense still does not exist. You don't have to give up on him, but there are nine guys ahead of him in the rotation. Nine. Nine guys. And at least a couple of more who probably could do no worse. You don't have to play Cameron in situations where he can lose you the game, even when a couple of guys get hurt. And let's be clear. Cameron hit 25 threes last year. Eight of those came against the three worst teams on the schedule. Overall he shot 32%. He's hitting at a 24% clip this year. His defense is unspeakably bad. I dare you to pull up today's game, watch his performance, and come back and confirm that you think the kid should be getting minutes. Well you aren't in practice so there is no possible way for you to know what JT3 knows. Who cares who the 3s came against he made shots last year. Using your logic Aaron was bad for a long time in his limited minutes now as a 5th yr senior he is playing great. Let Reggie find his way. You are acting as though that one stretch lost the game or could have. I think you are harping on something that really isn't that big. If Peak and Trawick were good to go I doubt Reggie plays today. Tre didn't play at all in the Nova game but JT3 had confidence enough in him today to play those minutes. He recruited them for a reason. The book on Cameron isn't written in stone yet.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 25, 2015 6:03:50 GMT -5
Pash, hate to say it, but your posts on Cameron sound idiotic.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jan 25, 2015 6:20:21 GMT -5
Reggie has not produced as we ought have hoped. However, yesterday he filled in when needed and it most certainly was not disastrous.
He is a deep bench player at this point. Yesterday was a deep into the bench day as a result of injury/fouls.
Case closed.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 25, 2015 6:53:32 GMT -5
That lay-up included a pretty good screen that took Cameron out. He was (edit- NOT) the only Hoya screened out for a layup today.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Jan 25, 2015 7:27:47 GMT -5
Clearly JT3 has more confidence in Cameron than I do. I'm just trying to figure out why. Cameron's shot has been way off all season—always front rim—and his defense still does not exist. You don't have to give up on him, but there are nine guys ahead of him in the rotation. Nine. Nine guys. And at least a couple of more who probably could do no worse. You don't have to play Cameron in situations where he can lose you the game, even when a couple of guys get hurt. And let's be clear. Cameron hit 25 threes last year. Eight of those came against the three worst teams on the schedule. Overall he shot 32%. He's hitting at a 24% clip this year. His defense is unspeakably bad. I dare you to pull up today's game, watch his performance, and come back and confirm that you think the kid should be getting minutes. Pash- a word of advise you cannot go on a crusade against any hoya player and think you won't get push back, that's just how it is. I was very critical towards hank sims for three years. Maybe I was a bit harsh but I think I was dead in most of the time and got hammered. Bottom line is your right. RC was billed as a sharp shooter and he has been awful! Your also right his miss lead to a breakout and a 5 pt swing. Your also right he can't play defense and should see limited minutes. All that being said you just have to tread carefully on the criticism especially after a huge road win. Enjoy the win bro.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 25, 2015 7:49:40 GMT -5
That lay-up included a pretty good screen that took Cameron out. He was the only Hoya screened out for a layup today. Oh come on that's totally false. I distinctly remember Ike getting screen for a layup by one of the Wilsons. And we got screened who knows how many times to give up open 3s. If a player gets screened I'm not even sure I put the blame on them, their teammates should be calling it out letting them know it's coming. Looked like Cameron had no idea. As far as his playing time, if he hits that 3 instead of front rimming it (it looked good going up too) and no one says boo, and that's pretty much all there is to it.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 25, 2015 8:01:42 GMT -5
Clearly JT3 has more confidence in Cameron than I do. I'm just trying to figure out why. Cameron's shot has been way off all season—always front rim—and his defense still does not exist. You don't have to give up on him, but there are nine guys ahead of him in the rotation. Nine. Nine guys. And at least a couple of more who probably could do no worse. You don't have to play Cameron in situations where he can lose you the game, even when a couple of guys get hurt.And let's be clear. Cameron hit 25 threes last year. Eight of those came against the three worst teams on the schedule. Overall he shot 32%. He's hitting at a 24% clip this year. His defense is unspeakably bad. I dare you to pull up today's game, watch his performance, and come back and confirm that you think the kid should be getting minutes. Pash- a word of advise you cannot go on a crusade against any hoya player and think you won't get push back, that's just how it is. I was very critical towards hank sims for three years. Maybe I was a bit harsh but I think I was dead in most of the time and got hammered. Bottom line is your right. RC was billed as a sharp shooter and he has been awful! Your also right his miss lead to a breakout and a 5 pt swing. Your also right he can't play defense and should see limited minutes. All that being said you just have to tread carefully on the criticism especially after a huge road win. Enjoy the win bro. There are at least two related, but separate, issues here. First, should Reggie see time -- in a very limited capacity -- in most games to see if his three-point shooting can provide the team a lift. My answer: a limited yes. No more than a minute or two (barring production), and focused on teams (like Marquette) that are featuring zone. But reasonable minds can differ on that, particularly since Ike and Paul aren't exactly playing maximum minutes and can knock down threes also. I take it yours is a "differing reasonable mind" and that's fine with me. No argument here. But second, if we need our tenth player to play, should he be that guy? That's the question in the part of the post I bolded. Well, yes. Unless what we need is a five, in which case Bradley is that guy. Here, two non-point guards / non fives were out injured and Paul White had four fouls and couldn't play at that stage. (I don't believe Aaron yet was hurt.) With Peak and Jabril out, Coach necessarily leans heavily on Tre and knows he will need to for much of the second half, when he hasn't played truly extended minutes all year. So he gives him a blow five minutes into the half. No one can argue with that. (He also had just missed a shot, so I don't know if he pulled him to talk to him about something.) Who should he put in? Ike, Aaron, and DSR already are in. Jabril and LJ are hurt. Paul has four fouls and it's very early in the second half. The goal is to give Tre a rest. There literally isn't another credible option, unless you go with Bradley and have Aaron play the two, which presents its own challenges. He's in for 3:30. He then comes out never to come back in again. We can say that he didn't do anything positive (and did some negative) while in there, but what are you going to do? If three minutes from our tenth (maybe eleventh) man is our biggest issue, we don't have very many issues.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 25, 2015 8:02:04 GMT -5
Reggie was bad yesterday. He has not been a "disaster" every time he has played, but he has not contributed much this season, very true.
But as others have pointed out, Coach tried to steal a couple of minutes of rest for guys and it didn't work. With the injuries and foul trouble we were effectively down to 5 guys plus Reggie at that point. What "other rotations" were we supposed to see pash? That part does not make sense.
If Reggie can somehow rediscover his shot, he could be a big help against the many zones we will see. If not, he will continue to see no more than a couple of minutes, or sometimes none.
If Reggie is our only complaint after a game - we will be in pretty good shape!
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Jan 25, 2015 8:04:06 GMT -5
I just hate the fact that we have some that are so quick to jump on a kid for a bad stretch as if he's never shown any ability. He shot 32% from 3 last year as a freshman on a team that had no real post presence so he can hit shots. Right now, it just seems he's pressing on each shot. If Peak or Trawick cant go, id actually consider starting him on Tuesday night. Has he earned it? Not with his game play so far, but he's a guy that I think needs a jolt of confidence and I'd work with Josh and DSR to get him set up with 3-4 shots in the first 4 minutes of play. This would be a long term play but im one that believes getting this kid's confidence going could be big come late Feb and March. We are taking on the team where he had career highs last year and we are at home so a low risk, high potential return opportunity here. Allows you to continueto bring White, Copeland, Campbell and Bowen in off the bench. His stroke is nice but he needs to shoot it like everyone is going in and take them as if a miss doesn't mean a trip to the bench.
JTIII will not likely start him but the reason he is giving him minutes in a game like yesterday is because we were thin and hes the best option with the best long term potential to really help this and next year's team be special.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 25, 2015 8:23:46 GMT -5
Thank God for this discussion. I was afraid that with all the silver lining no one could find a dark cloud. Reggie is not there yet. He has flaws. His defense has improved, though remains not a strong point. His shooting stroke is fine but his shot is not falling and he clearly is pressing. To have watched that game and focus on Reggie's four minutes of defense and one missed shot is hard to fathom. There was some incredibly good shooting by Marquette, many blown assignments by Hoya players and some bad passing. Lots of areas for improvement for Reggie and the team, but the key is that the team continues to grow and win games it could easily lose. Next up a real challenge at home against a team that dominated the Hoyas more than any other this year.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 25, 2015 8:58:01 GMT -5
That lay-up included a pretty good screen that took Cameron out. He was the only Hoya screened out for a layup today. Oh come on that's totally false. I distinctly remember Ike getting screen for a layup by one of the Wilsons. And we got screened who knows how many times to give up open 3s. If a player gets screened I'm not even sure I put the blame on them, their teammates should be calling it out letting them know it's coming. Looked like Cameron had no idea. As far as his playing time, if he hits that 3 instead of front rimming it (it looked good going up too) and no one says boo, and that's pretty much all there is to it. It looks like I forgot to type NOT the only Hoya....I apologize for my omission and the confused it caused.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 25, 2015 9:09:24 GMT -5
Oh come on that's totally false. I distinctly remember Ike getting screen for a layup by one of the Wilsons. And we got screened who knows how many times to give up open 3s. If a player gets screened I'm not even sure I put the blame on them, their teammates should be calling it out letting them know it's coming. Looked like Cameron had no idea. As far as his playing time, if he hits that 3 instead of front rimming it (it looked good going up too) and no one says boo, and that's pretty much all there is to it. It looks like I forgot to type NOT the only Hoya....I apologize for my omission and the confused it caused. Hah, the one word makes a huge difference! No worries man, in that case I agree with you he wasn't the only Hoya to get burned.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 25, 2015 9:27:02 GMT -5
Clearly JT3 has more confidence in Cameron than I do. I'm just trying to figure out why. Cameron's shot has been way off all season—always front rim—and his defense still does not exist. You don't have to give up on him, but there are nine guys ahead of him in the rotation. Nine. Nine guys. And at least a couple of more who probably could do no worse. You don't have to play Cameron in situations where he can lose you the game, even when a couple of guys get hurt. And let's be clear. Cameron hit 25 threes last year. Eight of those came against the three worst teams on the schedule. Overall he shot 32%. He's hitting at a 24% clip this year. His defense is unspeakably bad. I dare you to pull up today's game, watch his performance, and come back and confirm that you think the kid should be getting minutes. Pash- a word of advise you cannot go on a crusade against any hoya player and think you won't get push back, that's just how it is. I was very critical towards hank sims for three years. Maybe I was a bit harsh but I think I was dead in most of the time and got hammered. Bottom line is your right. RC was billed as a sharp shooter and he has been awful! Your also right his miss lead to a breakout and a 5 pt swing. Your also right he can't play defense and should see limited minutes. All that being said you just have to tread carefully on the criticism especially after a huge road win. Enjoy the win bro. Rich you are kinda making my point. Henry is a NBA player now and probably will be for the conceivable future. I know you didn't see that at all when making those posts. I am not saying Reggie is going to do that but you never know what his next 2 years will be. If he wants to be a Hoya for 4 years and trust the process like Aaron did I am happy. I was one of the detractors that said don't bring Moses and Aaron back. I am happy to be wrong about him.
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jld
Member
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Post by jld on Jan 25, 2015 9:44:53 GMT -5
Reggie is the 10th man in a nine-player rotation as a sophomore. He was recruited as a specialist -- a zone buster. He has nice form so the decision to recruit him was sound. We then brought in superb talent at the forward/swing guard position, so his time is reduced this year.
It has not clicked for him yet and maybe it never will. Or like Bowen he can blossom late as a specialist. He will still have a chance for a role next year with Jabril and Bowen leaving. If he develops then things are good -- if he does not, he will still be the tenth man in the rotation and can either stay and get a great education for free, or transfer if basketball is that important. So bottom line, it is too early to tell how his career will turn out but either way -- what is the point of criticizing this kid?
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canissaxa
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Post by canissaxa on Jan 25, 2015 10:27:16 GMT -5
Couple of points: - I think on a discussion board, it's fair game to respectfully criticize a player for basketball plays and skills. If there are those that feel this shouldnt be allowed, I suppose there are other forums or perhaps threads where everything can be limited to cheerleading. Personal criticism not related to basketball seems to be where we should draw the line. - Cameron has been a bad shooter by any objective measure this year. The old adage that thirty three percent from 3 is like shooting fifty percent from 2 breaks down when you shoot 24% from 3. If we had any player shooting 36% from the field would we be arguing for more time? - I don't think too many posters on this board would argue that his defense has been good. - as an earlier poster mentioned, it is reasonable to debate whether spot minutes are worthwhile investment to see if we can develop his confidence/performance in outside shot and defensive understanding/awareness for the future. - where some of the pro-Cameron poster have been using suspect logic is pointing at 2 of our recent examples of late bloomers: sims and Bowen. Both had physical tools that Cameron does not have: in Sim's case plus college height and good athleticism and in bowen's case elite athleticism and good height. Both had greater upside when they stopped making bad decisions. - that is not to say that Cameron can't develop, but he isn't going to do so with radically better lateral movement on D in order to stay on quick opponents or great elevation for weak side shot blocking help. A quick first step is probably not going to happen either but in the college game there are good shooters who can use the head fake and aggressive close out to develop a bit of a drive option. His absolute upside is Ethan Wragge on Creighton last year--a dead eye shooter who didn't bring much else to the table. But I would argue that 1000 shots per day in the gym is more helpful in developing that skill (or at least a necessary prerequisite) than a few minutes of PT. When he is hitting 50% unguarded (which he maybe doing in practice) that is when it would make sense for coaches to see if he can get into the game to shoot a percentage to make his minutes a net positive.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 25, 2015 10:38:40 GMT -5
We all know that Reggie has contributed very little this year, and also that he struggles to be even an average defender. We also know that his minutes - when he gets them - are almost exclusively limited to 3-4 minutes to try to get a couple of shots to see if he might be hot that day, usually when we are struggling against a zone. His minutes hurt yesterday; usually he is more of a non-factor.
But I have a feeling there will come a time - maybe only once, or maybe more - when Reggie does get hot, and contributes to a big win. Keep working hard and good things can happen.
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