b52legend
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 453
|
Post by b52legend on Jan 27, 2015 0:02:10 GMT -5
Reggie Cameron is doing fine. The criticism that he "had" a skill is ridiculous. I guess DSR used to be a good shooter -- that joker is shooting 40% this year, down from last year. The fact is that Cameron needs to focus most on everything OTHER than his shot - defense, rebounding, passing, transition offense, mental toughness, etc. These are the things that are going to make Cameron a contributor when his shot isn't on. One look at his shooting form tells me that his troubles converting in game are more likely due to (i) relatively small sample size, (ii) lack of confidence and (iii) inability to adapt to being a spot minutes type of guy. I have no doubt that he buries the shots in practice which is why JT3 continues to play the kid. His shot looks silky, and I am confident that we'll start to see it go down. Saying he "had" a shot based upon 21 shots this season is just ridiculous. If 4 of those shots had dropped he would be shooting 43% and everyone would be saying how he was the sharpshooter we all knew he would be. 4 shots. Cameron is not a good shooter at this point by any standard. He has now taken 100 threes in his career. He has made 30. And it's not like he's playing in crunch time. If he could shoot at all, ignore all that other stuff, he'd be getting some minutes. We knew those other areas would be lacking early on, maybe forever, but if he can't shoot, he has no place on the floor. Reggie shot 45% from 3 his senior year of high school on 209 shots. He shot 50% his junior year of high school on 158 shots. He shot 40% his sophomore year of high school on 181 shots. Now either he forgot how to shoot or there is something else going on. I don't think 30/100 3's is indicative of a bad shooter. Its indicative of the guy being a freshman for 79 of those shots. Like I said, I can only assume JT3 thinks Cameron can shoot the ball, which is why we see him continue to get opportunities to come in and shoot the ball. I think he'll start to make them. You apparently think the kid just doesn't know how to shoot and we should cut him.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
|
Post by tashoya on Jan 27, 2015 0:02:50 GMT -5
BTW, no one is saying he can't improve. I doubt there's a single person here that doesn't really hope that he does. A knock-down shooter would be incredibly helpful to this, or pretty much any other, team. Pointing out the situation is not the same as not wanting the guy to succeed. Of course I want that. He's a Hoya. I want that for all of our guys. But the reality is what it is right now. He's still getting limited game minutes and full practice minutes to make his case. It's on him to earn the minutes at this point or, in the case of the other day, wait for a need due to injuries and/or foul trouble. It's not a great position for him to be in personally but it's also within his control to change that reality.
|
|
b52legend
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 453
|
Post by b52legend on Jan 27, 2015 0:08:49 GMT -5
Reggie Cameron is doing fine. The criticism that he "had" a skill is ridiculous. I guess DSR used to be a good shooter -- that joker is shooting 40% this year, down from last year. The fact is that Cameron needs to focus most on everything OTHER than his shot - defense, rebounding, passing, transition offense, mental toughness, etc. These are the things that are going to make Cameron a contributor when his shot isn't on. One look at his shooting form tells me that his troubles converting in game are more likely due to (i) relatively small sample size, (ii) lack of confidence and (iii) inability to adapt to being a spot minutes type of guy. I have no doubt that he buries the shots in practice which is why JT3 continues to play the kid. His shot looks silky, and I am confident that we'll start to see it go down. Saying he "had" a shot based upon 21 shots this season is just ridiculous. If 4 of those shots had dropped he would be shooting 43% and everyone would be saying how he was the sharpshooter we all knew he would be. 4 shots. So, in other words, if he nearly doubled his shooting percentage people wouldn't be having this discussion? Agreed. It's a small sample size this year. He didn't shoot well last year either. He was recruited as a plus shooter not a plus defender or rebounder. If he could do those other things better, he might get more time as well. He's never going to be a plus defender. He has good instincts with regard to rebounding but isn't all that strong. To even throw DSR's name into your "point" sort of blew it up from the get-go. There isn't a skill that Reggie has that compares to a skill that DSR has to this point. The "point" with including DSR was to highlight that shooting depends on a lot more than just if the guy is a good shooter -- I wasn't comparing the players. DSR had a run of games this year where he was ice cold. People were not on this message board saying that DSR forgot how to shoot. We all know DSR can shoot and he bounced back with some great shooting performances. Maybe we don't know if Cameron can shoot at this level - I think he can - but I think 100 shots over the course of two years, the majority of which came during his freshman campaign, isn't enough to draw the conclusion that he somehow lost his shot.
|
|
b52legend
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 453
|
Post by b52legend on Jan 27, 2015 0:13:48 GMT -5
BTW, no one is saying he can't improve. I doubt there's a single person here that doesn't really hope that he does. A knock-down shooter would be incredibly helpful to this, or pretty much any other, team. Pointing out the situation is not the same as not wanting the guy to succeed. Of course I want that. He's a Hoya. I want that for all of our guys. But the reality is what it is right now. He's still getting limited game minutes and full practice minutes to make his case. It's on him to earn the minutes at this point or, in the case of the other day, wait for a need due to injuries and/or foul trouble. It's not a great position for him to be in personally but it's also within his control to change that reality. Agree. It is totally on Cameron to make shots when the matter. Being able to do that may be a skill independent of whether or not he has a good stroke though, and he should be afforded the time to grow as any college player (e.g., Henry and Bowen). Feel like folks are getting spoiled this year with the Freshman class we have and their ability to develop and contribute on an accelerated pace. Maybe our recruiting classed going forward will all be like this -- I'll be stoked. But I'm not going to write off guys on the roster who maybe need more time to show that they can contribute.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
|
Post by tashoya on Jan 27, 2015 0:15:23 GMT -5
So, in other words, if he nearly doubled his shooting percentage people wouldn't be having this discussion? Agreed. It's a small sample size this year. He didn't shoot well last year either. He was recruited as a plus shooter not a plus defender or rebounder. If he could do those other things better, he might get more time as well. He's never going to be a plus defender. He has good instincts with regard to rebounding but isn't all that strong. To even throw DSR's name into your "point" sort of blew it up from the get-go. There isn't a skill that Reggie has that compares to a skill that DSR has to this point. The "point" with including DSR was to highlight that shooting depends on a lot more than just if the guy is a good shooter -- I wasn't comparing the players. DSR had a run of games this year where he was ice cold. People were not on this message board saying that DSR forgot how to shoot. We all know DSR can shoot and he bounced back with some great shooting performances. Maybe we don't know if Cameron can shoot at this level - I think he can - but I think 100 shots over the course of two years, the majority of which came during his freshman campaign, isn't enough to draw the conclusion that he somehow lost his shot. With two years of history of being a really good shooter. Big difference. And DSR always had wrinkles to his game and rebounding skills that Cameron doesn't have. His margin for error is much more narrow. Maybe we don't know if Cameron can shoot yet. But hasn't shown pluses in other areas that warrant time for him to wait for the switch to flip.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,875
Member is Online
|
Post by EtomicB on Jan 27, 2015 0:15:48 GMT -5
I was a big fan of the staff signing Cameron but to me he never was and never will be a 3, it doesn't matter how much weight he loses.. I think he would have been better served trying to be more like Niang @ Iowa State.. In the end though he still wouldn't have gotten much time this season because White & Copeland are better players than he is.. In hindsight Domingo wasn't at all ready to play HM ball, taking him a year early was a mistake.. As a side note.. Now that Henry is close to playing 100 NBA games at the 5 spot, can we acknowledge that his playing the 4 spot during his 1st 2 seasons @ G'town probably contributed to his slow start in college? I know it's my issue but it bothers me that folks never talk about this fact when referencing Henry's career @ G'town.. Maybe a small factor - but since Hank himself has said that his biggest problem was his failure to take it seriously and work hard enough his first 2 years - I'll go with that. "small" is better than nothing Frazier so I'll take it.. I get the narrative that he didn't work as hard as he could/should have early on @ G'town and I agree with it... I just don't think hard work would have given him the skill set needed to play the 4 in JT3's system.. You have to admit that Henry's game isn't like Jeff's or Pat Jr's or Greg's or Otto's or Paul's & Copeland's now.. He's not a 4 man. Once he was allowed to play the 5 starting in his Jr. year he started to come around and once the job was his full time he flourished..
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,875
Member is Online
|
Post by EtomicB on Jan 27, 2015 0:28:55 GMT -5
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
|
Post by tashoya on Jan 27, 2015 0:32:16 GMT -5
BTW, no one is saying he can't improve. I doubt there's a single person here that doesn't really hope that he does. A knock-down shooter would be incredibly helpful to this, or pretty much any other, team. Pointing out the situation is not the same as not wanting the guy to succeed. Of course I want that. He's a Hoya. I want that for all of our guys. But the reality is what it is right now. He's still getting limited game minutes and full practice minutes to make his case. It's on him to earn the minutes at this point or, in the case of the other day, wait for a need due to injuries and/or foul trouble. It's not a great position for him to be in personally but it's also within his control to change that reality. Agree. It is totally on Cameron to make shots when the matter. Being able to do that may be a skill independent of whether or not he has a good stroke though, and he should be afforded the time to grow as any college player (e.g., Henry and Bowen). Feel like folks are getting spoiled this year with the Freshman class we have and their ability to develop and contribute on an accelerated pace. Maybe our recruiting classed going forward will all be like this -- I'll be stoked. But I'm not going to write off guys on the roster who maybe need more time to show that they can contribute. To your other point, no one is writing him off. And he has gotten minutes. And he still, as yet, has not knocked down shots. As for the reasons behind that, I'd bet the coaching staff knows much better what those reasons are. To be contrarian, if it's a confidence thing, is it a good or a bad thing to continue to give him minutes and have him not knock down shots that other guys that aren't billed as "shooters" are knocking down? Seems to me that, if it's a confidence issue, the more shots he misses, the less his confidence. He is no longer in the first part of his freshman year in the OOC schedule where he'll be given extra minutes because there are guys on his team that are playing better than him and, arguably, have more to their games than just shooting. He's not outshooting the guys he should and so he's sitting. He's getting reps still. They're not extended minutes and that, in particular, is telling. Sadly, we haven't had the luxury of blowing many teams out and likely won't moving forward. I don't expect his minutes to see an uptick if everyone stays healthy. In fact, I expect the opposite. It's unfortunate for him but he's on a team that has guys that have performed better. As a coach, it's difficult to justify giving a guy minutes over another player that is performing better at this level.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
|
Post by tashoya on Jan 27, 2015 0:34:01 GMT -5
Is that a rhetorical question?
|
|
b52legend
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 453
|
Post by b52legend on Jan 27, 2015 0:47:00 GMT -5
Agree. It is totally on Cameron to make shots when the matter. Being able to do that may be a skill independent of whether or not he has a good stroke though, and he should be afforded the time to grow as any college player (e.g., Henry and Bowen). Feel like folks are getting spoiled this year with the Freshman class we have and their ability to develop and contribute on an accelerated pace. Maybe our recruiting classed going forward will all be like this -- I'll be stoked. But I'm not going to write off guys on the roster who maybe need more time to show that they can contribute. To your other point, no one is writing him off. And he has gotten minutes. And he still, as yet, has not knocked down shots. As for the reasons behind that, I'd bet the coaching staff knows much better what those reasons are. To be contrarian, if it's a confidence thing, is it a good or a bad thing to continue to give him minutes and have him not knock down shots that other guys that aren't billed as "shooters" are knocking down? Seems to me that, if it's a confidence issue, the more shots he misses, the less his confidence. He is no longer in the first part of his freshman year in the OOC schedule where he'll be given extra minutes because there are guys on his team that are playing better than him and, arguably, have more to their games than just shooting. He's not outshooting the guys he should and so he's sitting. He's getting reps still. They're not extended minutes and that, in particular, is telling. Sadly, we haven't had the luxury of blowing many teams out and likely won't moving forward. I don't expect his minutes to see an uptick if everyone stays healthy. In fact, I expect the opposite. It's unfortunate for him but he's on a team that has guys that have performed better. As a coach, it's difficult to justify giving a guy minutes over another player that is performing better at this level. I was responding primarily to the folks who said he was 100% useless, we "missed" on Reggie, shooting was a skill he "had", etc. I'm not advocating for giving Reggie White or Copeland's minutes, I'm advocating against the prior sentiments. In terms of confidence, playing and continuing to take shots is the only way to gain confidence.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 27, 2015 7:53:21 GMT -5
Maybe a small factor - but since Hank himself has said that his biggest problem was his failure to take it seriously and work hard enough his first 2 years - I'll go with that. "small" is better than nothing Frazier so I'll take it.. I get the narrative that he didn't work as hard as he could/should have early on @ G'town and I agree with it... I just don't think hard work would have given him the skill set needed to play the 4 in JT3's system.. You have to admit that Henry's game isn't like Jeff's or Pat Jr's or Greg's or Otto's or Paul's & Copeland's now.. He's not a 4 man. Once he was allowed to play the 5 starting in his Jr. year he started to come around and once the job was his full time he flourished.. Fair points. Henry is definitely a 5.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jan 27, 2015 8:42:56 GMT -5
MUST HIT SHOTS nuf said little quicker on d this year little but must hit shots NOW. money time.
|
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,813
|
Post by hoyazeke on Jan 27, 2015 9:19:27 GMT -5
I would like to see Reggie get a layup or mid range jump shot first. Just so he can see the ball go through the rim before he starts jacking threes. He just needs some confidence and we will see him become a important part of the last quarter of the season.
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 27, 2015 9:56:04 GMT -5
So, in other words, if he nearly doubled his shooting percentage people wouldn't be having this discussion? Agreed. It's a small sample size this year. He didn't shoot well last year either. He was recruited as a plus shooter not a plus defender or rebounder. If he could do those other things better, he might get more time as well. He's never going to be a plus defender. He has good instincts with regard to rebounding but isn't all that strong. To even throw DSR's name into your "point" sort of blew it up from the get-go. There isn't a skill that Reggie has that compares to a skill that DSR has to this point. The "point" with including DSR was to highlight that shooting depends on a lot more than just if the guy is a good shooter -- I wasn't comparing the players. DSR had a run of games this year where he was ice cold. People were not on this message board saying that DSR forgot how to shoot. We all know DSR can shoot and he bounced back with some great shooting performances. Maybe we don't know if Cameron can shoot at this level - I think he can - but I think 100 shots over the course of two years, the majority of which came during his freshman campaign, isn't enough to draw the conclusion that he somehow lost his shot. You're still not getting the point tho. The point is, whether freshman, sophomore or whatever, it shouldn't matter. Being a dead eye shooter is a skill that should easily translate to the college game. As POD said, the rim is the same height, the ball is the same size and weight, Cameron is the same size. The only minor difference is the line is a foot further back, but that's hardly an obstacle for a kid that's supposed to be light's out. For whatever reason, that skill hasn't translated, and it doesn't really make any sense given the relative sameness of the task from HS to college. Yea, I think there's a better chance his shots start falling eventually because his form is much better than Domingo, but the point remains that an easily translatable skill hasn't translated. 100 shots isn't small sample size territory anymore. The kid is a 30/100 for his career so far and it doesn't make any sense when his numbers in HS were so dominant.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jan 27, 2015 10:08:28 GMT -5
The "point" with including DSR was to highlight that shooting depends on a lot more than just if the guy is a good shooter -- I wasn't comparing the players. DSR had a run of games this year where he was ice cold. People were not on this message board saying that DSR forgot how to shoot. We all know DSR can shoot and he bounced back with some great shooting performances. Maybe we don't know if Cameron can shoot at this level - I think he can - but I think 100 shots over the course of two years, the majority of which came during his freshman campaign, isn't enough to draw the conclusion that he somehow lost his shot. You're still not getting the point tho. The point is, whether freshman, sophomore or whatever, it shouldn't matter. Being a dead eye shooter is a skill that should easily translate to the college game. As POD said, the rim is the same height, the ball is the same size and weight, Cameron is the same size. The only minor difference is the line is a foot further back, but that's hardly an obstacle for a kid that's supposed to be light's out. For whatever reason, that skill hasn't translated, and it doesn't really make any sense given the relative sameness of the task from HS to college. Yea, I think there's a better chance his shots start falling eventually because his form is much better than Domingo, but the point remains that an easily translatable skill hasn't translated. 100 shots isn't small sample size territory anymore. The kid is a 30/100 for his career so far and it doesn't make any sense when his numbers in HS were so dominant. I'm sorry but you're not living in real life
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 27, 2015 10:13:36 GMT -5
You're still not getting the point tho. The point is, whether freshman, sophomore or whatever, it shouldn't matter. Being a dead eye shooter is a skill that should easily translate to the college game. As POD said, the rim is the same height, the ball is the same size and weight, Cameron is the same size. The only minor difference is the line is a foot further back, but that's hardly an obstacle for a kid that's supposed to be light's out. For whatever reason, that skill hasn't translated, and it doesn't really make any sense given the relative sameness of the task from HS to college. Yea, I think there's a better chance his shots start falling eventually because his form is much better than Domingo, but the point remains that an easily translatable skill hasn't translated. 100 shots isn't small sample size territory anymore. The kid is a 30/100 for his career so far and it doesn't make any sense when his numbers in HS were so dominant. I'm sorry but you're not living in real life Which part of what I said isn't "living in real life?" What does that even mean?
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jan 27, 2015 10:27:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry but you're not living in real life Which part of what I said isn't "living in real life?" What does that even mean? The whole part. Players don't remain the same from day to day, and much less from year. People don't either. Just because you're up one day doesn't mean you're always going to be up. You can't expect someone to shoot their career numbers simply because that's what they've always shot in the past. And in the case of Reggie or and other shooter transitioning to college, more often than not they shoot more poorly than they did in hs until the game slows down to the same speed for them. It's about more than just distance from the basket and weight of the ball, etc. it's about being on a new team, with a new offense, different teammates and different expectations. Real life variables. They don't play college basketball games on a spreadsheet....
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 27, 2015 11:13:28 GMT -5
Which part of what I said isn't "living in real life?" What does that even mean? The whole part. Players don't remain the same from day to day, and much less from year. People don't either. Just because you're up one day doesn't mean you're always going to be up. You can't expect someone to shoot their career numbers simply because that's what they've always shot in the past. And in the case of Reggie or and other shooter transitioning to college, more often than not they shoot more poorly than they did in hs until the game slows down to the same speed for them. It's about more than just distance from the basket and weight of the ball, etc. it's about being on a new team, with a new offense, different teammates and different expectations. Real life variables. They don't play college basketball games on a spreadsheet.... Profound thoughts. Thanks for the enlightenment.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,737
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 27, 2015 11:27:08 GMT -5
Being a dead eye shooter is a skill that should easily translate to the college game. You'd think, except it absolutely isn't true. I get WHY you think this way -- it's logical. But the reality is almost every player sees their shooting percentages drop in going to college. Plenty of guys come in and struggle -- even from the free throw line. Some guys maintain; some guys don't. I suspect a lot of it is competition-based; even the "open" shots in college are generally a second from not being open. I don't know if it is ever going to click for Cameron, but his form looks good. And it's not unique to Cameron or Domingo or Georgetown to have a quality high school shooter struggle in college.
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 27, 2015 11:36:01 GMT -5
I'm not even knocking the kid. I want him to succeed. I'd love to see him start raining threes on people. Maybe he gets a chance to break out tonight if we're short handed. All I'm saying is that it's a little weird that our last two recruits who were brought in to basically just make open 3s haven't be able to do that and it's a little strange considering that it would seem to be an easily translatable skill. It's merely an observation, not even a criticism. I also said it's more likely that Cameron breaks out of the slump eventually because his mechanics are sound and his release is quick, whereas Domingo's mechanics were a mess everytime he decided to shoot.
|
|