DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 25, 2015 14:53:37 GMT -5
Not talking directly only to you pash. There's only so much time in the day to read all the posts here and catch everything.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 25, 2015 14:57:25 GMT -5
Pash, I'm stopping here, because your responses speak eloquently enough.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 25, 2015 15:02:10 GMT -5
It's really not that hard to understand tone. At some point, I think you have to be trying to be this obtuse to not understand that people reacted to your wording -- and your initial post is incredibly abrasive-- and not the idea that Cameron has not earned extensive time.
I assume you aren't an idiot. You know this. I'm not quite sure why you keep posting this like it isn't clear.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 25, 2015 15:10:32 GMT -5
It's really not that hard to understand tone. At some point, I think you have to be trying to be this obtuse to not understand that people reacted to your wording -- and your initial post is incredibly abrasive-- and not the idea that Cameron has not earned extensive time. I assume you aren't an idiot. You know this. I'm not quite sure why you keep posting this like it isn't clear. Keep pounding your head against the brick wall, SF, and it will eventually fall. Won't it?
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 25, 2015 15:10:32 GMT -5
Please tell us who these other options at the 2/3 were at that point in the game? I really don't think this should be particularly hard to understand. There are nine guys ahead of Cameron. If two of them are hurt, there are seven. If one of those is in foul trouble, there are six. You need five guys on the court at the same time. It can be done. Some teams do it all season long. But you're missing the point. I already conceded that it's reasonable to think using him in that situation is justified. (I don't concede that you have to, however, which is what you and others seem to keep insisting.) So what am I arguing? I'm arguing that a few more minutes out of a tired DSR or a Tre Campbell who just took a bad shot or a Paul White with four fouls—or whatever—might be a better option than putting in a guy who you can be fairly sure will give away a point a minute. Let's not forget that there are several other guys on the bench who don't get minutes in these situations. Why is Reggie Cameron so blessed to have a right to minutes in important situations and they're not? Don't Riyan Williams and Tre Mourning and Bradley Hayes also go to class and practice every day? Don't they deserve minutes in crucial spots too? Why are you throwing them under the bus? Why all the hyperbole? Don't you think before you post? Are you a complete idiot? Regardless of production, he has more game time experience than those 3 guys combined so that's a non-starter. Most would be ripping III if one of those guys got into a game like yesterday's with the exception of Hayes if we needed desperation minutes at the 5. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You'd rather risk PW picking up a 5th foul with 13+ mins left in the game than try to buy a few minutes with a guy who III seems to have some confidence in, while I'd agree with III's strategy in this one. These were hardly crunch time minutes in my opinion. Under 5 mins or so, I'd buy it, but good grief we weren't even midway through the second half, and I'd probably want White down the stretch. Plus it's not like this was the first lead we'd given up in the game. The lead was 6 when he came in, went up to 8 while he was in the game, and was down to 3 when III pulled him and Josh.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 25, 2015 15:13:26 GMT -5
"Hobbled Bowen" was unable to play after the injury, so not an option. Going with 5 guys - including Josh and Hop together for the rest of the game - would be disastrous. We needed somebody to buy 3-4 minutes, Reggie was our choice, even if it was going to be a negative. Sometimes you have to coach with the rest of the game in mind. Rest of the season, and RC's career as well. Just please, give him a few minutes in the first half or a blowout, but not in crunch time. Your idea of running the rest of the game with both Josh and Hop in the game is senseless. Josh would be useless the last minutes of the game.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 25, 2015 15:20:20 GMT -5
"Hobbled Bowen" was unable to play after the injury, so not an option. Going with 5 guys - including Josh and Hop together for the rest of the game - would be disastrous. We needed somebody to buy 3-4 minutes, Reggie was our choice, even if it was going to be a negative. Sometimes you have to coach with the rest of the game in mind. Rest of the season, and RC's career as well. Just please, give him a few minutes in the first half or a blowout, but not in crunch time. People needed a blow. We were down three players. That's why he got in the game. In that situation, you have no choice but "Next man up!"
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 25, 2015 15:50:17 GMT -5
OK, pash. Let's just say, I'm glad III is coach and not you.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 25, 2015 16:14:06 GMT -5
I do encourage you, pash, to continue contributing as a poster. You mentioned earlier that you rarely post. Unless you are a troll, and I don't think you are, I'm sure most of your posts won't draw such derision. Diversity of opinion is a good thing.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 25, 2015 16:27:38 GMT -5
There were 13 minutes left in the game with a 6 point lead when Cameron came in and 9 minutes and a 3 point lead when he went out. That's crunch time? To me that's the best time to try to buy a few minutes from a guy that may not be a big part of your rotation when you're desperate. I'd rather give those minutes to Cameron than risk White fouling out with 13+ minutes left in a game where neither team ever lead by double digits and there were 14 ties and 16 lead changes. I'd want my best guys available at the end.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 25, 2015 16:34:35 GMT -5
There were 13 minutes left in the game with a 6 point lead when Cameron came in and 9 minutes and a 3 point lead when he went out. That's crunch time? To me that's the best time to try to buy a few minutes from a guy that may not be a big part of your rotation when you're desperate. I'd rather give those minutes to Cameron than risk White fouling out with 13+ minutes left in a game where neither team ever lead by double digits and there were 14 ties and 16 lead changes. I'd want my best guys available at the end. Stop using facts. Unfair.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 25, 2015 18:32:11 GMT -5
Why is this kid getting minutes? There was a sequence midway through the second half against Marquette, shortly after Cameron was put in, during which (1) he looks the other way as his guy goes right by him for a layup, then on the other end (2) he front-rims a quick three and (3) stands around as the rebounder outlets to his man for one of Marquette's only transition buckets of the afternoon. And that's pretty typical. I watched every minute of Bennimon's and Mescheriakov's uniquely distinguished careers at G'town, and I've never seen a Hoya who has more definitively earned a spot at the end of the bench. The kid is 100% useless (and often worse) on both ends of the floor. Please, someone, tell me why this team needs a three who is unacquainted with the concept of defense and whose offensive skillset consists solely of jumpers that would have been perfect if only the NCAA hadn't moved the three-point line back by six inches a few a years ago. "Reggie Cameron had a tough day today. When he came in, he gave up an easy lay-up on D, then missed a three, then committed the cardinal sin of not getting back and Marquette scored again. I understand that we already lost 2 wing players to injury and it was a pretty up and down game, but in a close game, that was really rough to see that 4-0 run. I know he's improved a bit on defense (or at least seemed to do so earlier in the year) but I don't think JTIII should be bringing him in close games anymore. He's playing so poorly that it could cost the team, and given small forward is the deepest position on the team, I'm not sure we'll need the minutes. I hope he finds his confidence on offense and continues to improve, but this is Big East play -- let's not risk games. He can find his confidence in practice. Also: if Dickey Simpkins says "hastag" one more time, I'm flying to Milwaukee to punch him in the face."
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 25, 2015 19:25:50 GMT -5
Why is this kid getting minutes? There was a sequence midway through the second half against Marquette, shortly after Cameron was put in, during which (1) he looks the other way as his guy goes right by him for a layup, then on the other end (2) he front-rims a quick three and (3) stands around as the rebounder outlets to his man for one of Marquette's only transition buckets of the afternoon. And that's pretty typical. I watched every minute of Bennimon's and Mescheriakov's uniquely distinguished careers at G'town, and I've never seen a Hoya who has more definitively earned a spot at the end of the bench. The kid is 100% useless (and often worse) on both ends of the floor. Please, someone, tell me why this team needs a three who is unacquainted with the concept of defense and whose offensive skillset consists solely of jumpers that would have been perfect if only the NCAA hadn't moved the three-point line back by six inches a few a years ago. " Also: if Dickey Simpkins says "hastag" one more time, I'm flying to Milwaukee to punch him in the face." I know i said I wasn't posting in this thread but SF I feel the same way. It comes off as old man trying be hip which is never hip.
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on Jan 25, 2015 19:43:59 GMT -5
The Internet is the worst.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2015 21:55:00 GMT -5
There were 13 minutes left in the game with a 6 point lead when Cameron came in and 9 minutes and a 3 point lead when he went out. That's crunch time? To me that's the best time to try to buy a few minutes from a guy that may not be a big part of your rotation when you're desperate. I'd rather give those minutes to Cameron than risk White fouling out with 13+ minutes left in a game where neither team ever lead by double digits and there were 14 ties and 16 lead changes. I'd want my best guys available at the end. Considering it was a tie game at the end of regulation and if Carlinos foot is one inch behind the 3pt line we lose by one in regulation that 3pt difference is huge. A 6 point lead in such a tight game is invaluable and we're looking at a potential 6 pt swing to a 9 pt lead if we don't make those errors. So Pash makes some good points but I think the tone and delivery of his points could have been worded better and the name calling of Cameron was unnecessary. (especially after such a big win). You could tell III realized he made a mistake because after the 3pt miss and the fast break layup on the opposite side he pulled Cameron. Even with the foul trouble I don't think III will put Cameron in such a close game in the near future. Cameron is in a tough position because he is trying out there but is getting so few minutes and has a bunch of guys who are just alot better than he is right now. You could tell he was really hustling out there in the middle of the zone on offense and has alot of enthusiasm on the bench. It's just a matter of too many people ahead of him on the depth chart this year for him to get significant minutes to gain some confidence. He hasn't made one 3pt in Big East conference play which isn't good for a 3pt specialist.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Jan 26, 2015 5:43:56 GMT -5
Pash, keep posting. I for one agree with your assessment regarding Reggie Cameron. In no way is what you wrote an ad hominem attack (as many have spun it).
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 26, 2015 8:51:03 GMT -5
There were 13 minutes left in the game with a 6 point lead when Cameron came in and 9 minutes and a 3 point lead when he went out. That's crunch time? To me that's the best time to try to buy a few minutes from a guy that may not be a big part of your rotation when you're desperate. I'd rather give those minutes to Cameron than risk White fouling out with 13+ minutes left in a game where neither team ever lead by double digits and there were 14 ties and 16 lead changes. I'd want my best guys available at the end. Considering it was a tie game at the end of regulation and if Carlinos foot is one inch behind the 3pt line we lose by one in regulation that 3pt difference is huge. A 6 point lead in such a tight game is invaluable and we're looking at a potential 6 pt swing to a 9 pt lead if we don't make those errors. So Pash makes some good points but I think the tone and delivery of his points could have been worded better and the name calling of Cameron was unnecessary. (especially after such a big win). You could tell III realized he made a mistake because after the 3pt miss and the fast break layup on the opposite side he pulled Cameron. Even with the foul trouble I don't think III will put Cameron in such a close game in the near future. Cameron is in a tough position because he is trying out there but is getting so few minutes and has a bunch of guys who are just alot better than he is right now. You could tell he was really hustling out there in the middle of the zone on offense and has alot of enthusiasm on the bench. It's just a matter of too many people ahead of him on the depth chart this year for him to get significant minutes to gain some confidence. He hasn't made one 3pt in Big East conference play which isn't good for a 3pt specialist. I guess I just don't buy it. The lead expanded to 8 while he was in the game. He may not have done much of anything at that point but he didn't all of a sudden cause a catastrophe either. That one possession was poor, yes, but I could point out several others that were pretty bad too by other guys that get a pass.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Jan 26, 2015 9:08:19 GMT -5
Why is this kid getting minutes? There was a sequence midway through the second half against Marquette, shortly after Cameron was put in, during which (1) he looks the other way as his guy goes right by him for a layup, then on the other end (2) he front-rims a quick three and (3) stands around as the rebounder outlets to his man for one of Marquette's only transition buckets of the afternoon. And that's pretty typical. I watched every minute of Bennimon's and Mescheriakov's uniquely distinguished careers at G'town, and I've never seen a Hoya who has more definitively earned a spot at the end of the bench. The kid is 100% useless (and often worse) on both ends of the floor. Please, someone, tell me why this team needs a three who is unacquainted with the concept of defense and whose offensive skillset consists solely of jumpers that would have been perfect if only the NCAA hadn't moved the three-point line back by six inches a few a years ago. Just a guess, but I think your post sparked so much backlash, not because of your ultimate point (Reggie shouldn't be getting minutes) but because of how you convey it. Putting aside whether III had other options at that point if he wanted to get his players some rest, I can generally agree with you about whether I'd like to see Reggie out there. But the guy hasn't done anything we are aware of to embarrass this team. He apparently goes to class and makes grades. He chose to be a Hoya and to wear his uniform with pride. He may not have turned out to be the type of player we want him to be (yet), but there's a way to say that without the over the top insults (100% useless and general sarcasm). We all wish he was a better player. Just show a little class in how you convey it. That's all.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 26, 2015 10:39:30 GMT -5
My position is that Cameron's play merits zero minutes outside of garbage time. How should I have put it? "Reggie Cameron had a tough day today. When he came in, he gave up an easy lay-up on D, then missed a three, then committed the cardinal sin of not getting back and Marquette scored again. I understand that we already lost 2 wing players to injury and it was a pretty up and down game, but in a close game, that was really rough to see that 4-0 run. I know he's improved a bit on defense (or at least seemed to do so earlier in the year) but I don't think JTIII should be bringing him in close games anymore. He's playing so poorly that it could cost the team, and given small forward is the deepest position on the team, I'm not sure we'll need the minutes. I hope he finds his confidence on offense and continues to improve, but this is Big East play -- let's not risk games. He can find his confidence in practice. Also: if Dickey Simpkins says "hastag" one more time, I'm flying to Milwaukee to punch him in the face." The next time I wish to parley with HoyaTalk I will send you a PM. What do you charge? Good lord. You're one of those people who gets upset when anyone asks for common courtesy in a conversation, aren't you?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 26, 2015 10:54:04 GMT -5
I hope that Reggie keeps getting time and letting it fly!
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