eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 6, 2013 0:19:34 GMT -5
Wondering what people think may change with the program this offseason. Seems like we are at a pivotal point but nothing happening internally to address that. I see the following scenarios but would love to hear from others:
We (meaning the GU administration) continue to ignore the fact that our "peer" schools in the PL are stepping up their programs and we go winless next year in the conference or perhaps win a game (i.e., Holy Cross this year) to give some sort of renewed energy that we can compete in 2015.
We seek an alternative conference and step down in "peer" schools to try to retain a viable football program that can be competitive.
We cancel football altogether and give up the dream of a completed MSF with a program that can compete with legitimate FCS competition.
Are there any other solutions to this or is that what we are faced. I sense from the current base we have lost any sort of following other than the diehard fans on this board. But, I do struggle with the current story that we have for football and how we expect to energize our alum's to really get behind this to make meaningful contributions without a University commitment.
I think the University needs to invest first and the base will follow to get behind this but without their commitment what do we expect anyone else to put up for this.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Dec 6, 2013 11:03:54 GMT -5
Wondering what people think may change with the program this offseason. Seems like we are at a pivotal point but nothing happening internally to address that. I see the following scenarios but would love to hear from others:
We (meaning the GU administration) continue to ignore the fact that our "peer" schools in the PL are stepping up their programs and we go winless next year in the conference or perhaps win a game (i.e., Holy Cross this year) to give some sort of renewed energy that we can compete in 2015.
We seek an alternative conference and step down in "peer" schools to try to retain a viable football program that can be competitive.
We cancel football altogether and give up the dream of a completed MSF with a program that can compete with legitimate FCS competition. Are there any other solutions to this or is that what we are faced. I sense from the current base we have lost any sort of following other than the diehard fans on this board. But, I do struggle with the current story that we have for football and how we expect to energize our alum's to really get behind this to make meaningful contributions without a University commitment. I think the University needs to invest first and the base will follow to get behind this but without their commitment what do we expect anyone else to put up for this. Status quo (first scenario), minus the "renewed energy that we can compete in 2015" line |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 6, 2013 12:02:11 GMT -5
It bears repeating that no one at Georgetown is oblivious to the competitive gap developing in the Patriot League. However, it's not as easy as someone saying "Hey, take $3 million out of the SFS discretionary fund and give it to Kevin Kelly."
Confernce options, often discussed, are very limited. Georgetown can play as a non or low-scholarship entrant in the Patriot and expect five or six beatdowns a year. (For that option, it could play in the CAA alongside Villanova and Richmond and fare about as well.) It could play in the Northeast Conference with the likes of Duquesne, St. Francis, Wagner, etc., but they are offering up to 40 scholarships. It could play in the Pioneer but would lose any hope of recruiting because PFL schools can't offer packaged aid, but make up for it with merit grants. Georgetown would be the only school without the ability to offer merit aid. Or it could play as an independent, cobbling together a schedule and playing by whatever scholarship rules it saw fit.
No one I've talked to is looking to kick out football. With the exception of 15 or so years, it's been played at Georgetown in one form or another for 139 years. While it's easy to bemoan support, bear in mind that while Georgetown is at the bottom of the PL in spending, it still spends more than many in the NEC, all of the Pioneer, and comparable to Brown and Dartmouth. The Patriot (excepting GU) is among the one or two most expensive leagues by budget in I-AA.
The one underreported challenge for increased University funding is the Big East. The conference wants its schools to reinvest in conference sports. Football, men's rowing, and sailing are the square pegs in that funding priority, as it is with Villanova football and Providence ice hockey. A stronger base helps make a commitment to these sports more palatable.
As to early 2014 predictions, two wins may be optimistic. This team loses a lot of, the schedule doesn't get easier, and the recruiting last year was poor through no fault of the coaches themselves. Georgetown is a tough sell these days.
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Post by puppydog100 on Dec 6, 2013 12:31:48 GMT -5
Nothing will happen.
What I would like to see; go indy, schedule 8 games against Ivy's, plus three more. Ivy's will draw well in DC, plenty of alums in DC area.
We need to re-energize the base. Without GU alum and student support, and a commitment from Healy, who are we playing for?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 6, 2013 16:46:41 GMT -5
Nothing will happen. What I would like to see; go indy, schedule 8 games against Ivy's, plus three more. Ivy's will draw well in DC, plenty of alums in DC area. We need to re-energize the base. Without GU alum and student support, and a commitment from Healy, who are we playing for? 1. You can't schedule 8 ivies. Doesn't work, they play all conference games only from about mid Oct on and they like it that way. Even number of teams. 2. How pathetic would it be if we were an Ivy league wanna-be officially...playing an ENTIRE slate of Ivy league games but without being offered a place at the table. Everything about that leaves a bad taste. 3. If you are going to try for some Ivy Red-Headed Step Child model....might as well stay in PL. We will still get out-resourced at every turn but we at least have full membership because that is exactly what will happen in the Ivy league too. This move loses us the only recruiting advantage we currently have; we are the best academic school in the PL and at same time it doesn't help at all to be more competitive since the Ivies are de-facto scholarship schools already unless your family is loaded. 4. Why worry about how well a team draws when you have NO stadium? Frankly I'm mortified that the Harvard alums of DC are about to find out that Georgetown can't manage to build a nice high school-sized stadium within a decade while they are standing in line for portajohns on the Hilltop next year. |
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Post by puppydog100 on Dec 6, 2013 18:16:10 GMT -5
Thebin, being the best academic school in the PL isn't going to make us competitive on the field. If we are not competitive, we will never gain any momentum to build support from alums. We need a commitment from Healy, not continued silence.
Fordham took the risk. In less than four years, now ranked in the top 10 nationally. Their attendance is up, New York media is paying attention, donations from alums on positive track. How about using the Fordham playbook as our model for the future?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Dec 6, 2013 19:39:08 GMT -5
Thebin, being the best academic school in the PL isn't going to make us competitive on the field. If we are not competitive, we will never gain any momentum to build support from alums. We need a commitment from Healy, not continued silence. Fordham took the risk. In less than four years, now ranked in the top 10 nationally. Their attendance is up, New York media is paying attention, donations from alums on positive track. How about using the Fordham playbook as our model for the future? Beyond the fact that we absolutely don't have the money, for various reasons that you must just be choosing to ignore, have you ever heard of an academic index? |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 6, 2013 19:55:42 GMT -5
Fordham took the risk. In less than four years, now ranked in the top 10 nationally. Their attendance is up, New York media is paying attention, donations from alums on positive track. How about using the Fordham playbook as our model for the future? Fordham's playbook is not sustainable. Once the" rest" of the PL teams gain scholarship parity, Fordham loses its advantage. Once Joe Moorhead gets hired away and the transfers from UConn he brought in have graduated, the Rams are not going to be dominant each year. A further constraint: no plans to repair, extend, or replace Jack Coffey Field, which is the second smallest field in the PL (7,000) and is the only field in the league with seating on only one side of the field. It remains too small to host the kind of opponents which could really bring revenue in for the Rams out of conference. If you want a playbook to follow, consider Brown. Lowest budget in the Ivy, arguably the worst home field, but only two seasons below .500 since 1994. |
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eb59
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Post by eb59 on Dec 6, 2013 20:56:42 GMT -5
"If you want a playbook to follow, consider Brown. Lowest budget in the Ivy, arguably the worst home field, but only two seasons below .500 since 1994".
DFW - I would really be interested in your analysis / perspective on Why Brown has achieved the above, any chance that we might get a Blog on this in the near future?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Dec 7, 2013 1:48:00 GMT -5
Fordham took the risk. In less than four years, now ranked in the top 10 nationally. Their attendance is up, New York media is paying attention, donations from alums on positive track. How about using the Fordham playbook as our model for the future? Fordham's playbook is not sustainable. Once the" rest" of the PL teams gain scholarship parity, Fordham loses its advantage. Once Joe Moorhead gets hired away and the transfers from UConn he brought in have graduated, the Rams are not going to be dominant each year. A further constraint: no plans to repair, extend, or replace Jack Coffey Field, which is the second smallest field in the PL (7,000) and is the only field in the league with seating on only one side of the field. It remains too small to host the kind of opponents which could really bring revenue in for the Rams out of conference. If you want a playbook to follow, consider Brown. Lowest budget in the Ivy, arguably the worst home field, but only two seasons below .500 since 1994. It may be a quibble but i would say Dartmouth is far worse of a home field than Brown. So too is Wein at Columbia. |
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Post by puppydog100 on Dec 7, 2013 15:31:10 GMT -5
problem of dog, we don't have the money because the admin has elected to put its resources elsewhere, and, there is little or no support from the alumni. We need to fix that.
Does our basketball program follow the same AI as the football program? In the PL, do all of the other members follow the same AI?
thebin, yes, all of the other PL programs will eventually catch up to Fordham, as GU falls even further behind, thus GU will be even less competitive, so what's your point.
I am leaning toward alternative #3, let's just shut it down, as opposed to doing nothing.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Dec 7, 2013 18:33:58 GMT -5
problem of dog, we don't have the money because the admin has elected to put its resources elsewhere, and, there is little or no support from the alumni. We need to fix that.
Does our basketball program follow the same AI as the football program? In the PL, do all of the other members follow the same AI?thebin, yes, all of the other PL programs will eventually catch up to Fordham, as GU falls even further behind, thus GU will be even less competitive, so what's your point. I am leaning toward alternative #3, let's just shut it down, as opposed to doing nothing. Okay, so it's clear that you don't understand the AI. |
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Post by puppydog100 on Dec 8, 2013 11:24:06 GMT -5
Problem of Dog, always willing to learn, please explain it to me.
Do all the teams in the PL follow the AI?
Thanks.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 8, 2013 19:48:26 GMT -5
Fordham took the risk. In less than four years, now ranked in the top 10 nationally. Their attendance is up, New York media is paying attention, donations from alums on positive track. How about using the Fordham playbook as our model for the future? Fordham's playbook is not sustainable. Once the" rest" of the PL teams gain scholarship parity, Fordham loses its advantage. Once Joe Moorhead gets hired away and the transfers from UConn he brought in have graduated, the Rams are not going to be dominant each year. A further constraint: no plans to repair, extend, or replace Jack Coffey Field, which is the second smallest field in the PL (7,000) and is the only field in the league with seating on only one side of the field. It remains too small to host the kind of opponents which could really bring revenue in for the Rams out of conference. If you want a playbook to follow, consider Brown. Lowest budget in the Ivy, arguably the worst home field, but only two seasons below .500 since 1994. The Fordham playbook has also led to things like this: St. John's crushes Fordham, 104-58, in Holiday Festival at MSGNeedless to say, we've made the decision that we're willing to countenance headlines that read "Fordham crushes Georgetown on the gridiron" in order to avoid any possibility of our basketball team suffering an outcome like that. As for Brown, they've been on the upswing ever since they were able to recruit Johnny Moxon out of West Canaan High  More seriously, I have been bouncing around thoughts about a realistic roadmap for moving forward, but it's a little hard to gauge what is or is not realistic without much in the way of definitive info on finances and potential. I might give it a shot anyway. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 8, 2013 22:33:25 GMT -5
What about the current coaching situation? I feel like the lack of movement there is very telling about the university's interest in winning. This regime has been dismal and in a competitive program would not still be around. I understand their limitations with regards to resources but worth trying a different approach.
The only reason Benson was replaced was due to things unrelated to football performance from what I understand as I'm convinced we'd have had more success if he was still around versus this current regime.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 8, 2013 22:33:38 GMT -5
What about the current coaching situation? I feel like the lack of movement there is very telling about the university's interest in winning. This regime has been dismal and in a competitive program would not still be around. I understand their limitations with regards to resources but worth trying a different approach.
The only reason Benson was replaced was due to things unrelated to football performance from what I understand as I'm convinced we'd have had more success if he was still around versus this current regime.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 8, 2013 22:50:39 GMT -5
What about the current coaching situation? I feel like the lack of movement there is very telling about the university's interest in winning. This regime has been dismal and in a competitive program would not still be around. I understand their limitations with regards to resources but worth trying a different approach. The only reason Benson was replaced was due to things unrelated to football performance from what I understand as I'm convinced we'd have had more success if he was still around versus this current regime. Speaking of Benson, Football Scoop.com is reporting he's leaving Colorado School of Mines to be Greg Gattuso's new DC at Albany. His first job as a coach was as a grad assistant at Albany in 1986. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 8, 2013 22:54:02 GMT -5
good for him. I feel like he went sideways when he left our program and wish him the best. Gattuso was an old rival from the Duquesne MAAC days if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by puppydog100 on Dec 9, 2013 12:15:36 GMT -5
The finances are all about choices. GU is currently conducting a $ 1.0 billion campaign.
How much is going to be earmarked toward athletics? How much toward football?
No one can honestly say we have not resources, the question is how are we going to allocate those resources. If the administration chooses not to support its athletic programs to be competitive, so be it. My problem is, they are not saying anything one way or the other.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 9, 2013 13:33:14 GMT -5
The finances are all about choices. GU is currently conducting a $ 1.0 billion campaign. How much is going to be earmarked toward athletics? How much toward football? No one can honestly say we have not resources, the question is how are we going to allocate those resources. If the administration chooses not to support its athletic programs to be competitive, so be it. My problem is, they are not saying anything one way or the other. The campaign is $1.5 billion. "How much toward football" is a slightly complicated question. The simplest answer is: zero. The longer answer is: $500 million is dedicated to financial aid, and there will be many football players, managers and support staff, and maybe even some graduate assistants who ultimately benefit from that funding. The IAC is in the campaign, and the football program will benefit from the IAC thanks to the new weight room and sports medicine facility, plus team meeting rooms and whatever else. That would be a much more difficult share of the total to quantify. |
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