Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 24, 2013 15:04:50 GMT -5
If you think the problem with ACA is as simple as IT, you are sadly mistaken.
What I find so priceless, is the seamless 180 pulled by the Democrat Senators on the issue of a delay of the Individual Mandate to suit their survival needs.
It is positively Kerryan in both fecklessness and speed.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Oct 24, 2013 15:31:04 GMT -5
So we should ignore the impending trainwreck because the Republicans pointed it out first. It has been said that people get the government they deserve. That is both sad and terrifying. There should be a photo of you in the dictionary for "disingenuous." Of course that is not what I said. Not even close. The Republicans imagined death panels and government control of health care decisions and dozens of other things that are no where in the ACA. They did not raise any legitimate concern about the implementation of the program and certainly did not offer to work out solutions to any technical difficulties. They want to blow up the program, not modify it - all or nothing - so the non-apocalyptic public rightly learned to disregard them as not credible. The problems setting up the program unfortunately were predictable. It would have been much easier to subsidize the uninsured in a government insurance program, i.e. add them to Medicare or create a similar option than to offer sliding scale of premium support for private insurance plans in exchanges at the state level but with half of the states trying to sabotage the effort. But a government system was a non-starter so we have a publicly subsidized private insurance system that is more complicated and somewhat at the mercy of state governments and insurance companies. I have dealt with Medicaid and no one ever imagined in that program that people would be able to instantly sign up for the program over the internet. They have to go sit with a caseworker, prove their income, residence, household size and status, etc. This program is more complicated than Medicaid, because the options and the subsidies are based on each individual's circumstances. I have never seen a program or a policy in which regulations and software programs eliminated the need for a lot of trained caseworkers and managers, and I doubt that I ever will. But the federal government can't hire the caseworkers and also can't hire the extra IT people, so they have to turn over the operations to contractors. Government is good at hiring contractors but not so good at managing them. There is an outsourcing myth that contractors are inherently better because they have private sector magic, but the real private sector magic is that successful large companies do not turn over their essential operations to contractors, they hire the people they need in-house and control the operations. But they don't have to go to Congress to get approval to hire who they need. They just do it. Government databases are inherently problematic, especially when they have to import data and verify data by interfacing with other databases. This system has some design flaws - people should be able to browse the insurance options without registering - and there are complications that should have been obvious - too many data elements and sources to manage to confirm eligibility, income, etc. It was dumb to ever promise that people would be able to complete the whole process online in 20 minutes.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 24, 2013 15:46:43 GMT -5
I will cop to being situationally disingenuous if you will concede that the Obama administration is guilty of gross negligence in the run up to and roll out of ACA.
This level of performance shows an ineptitude that engenders no confidence whatsoever in their ability to operate this craft once the unlucky passenvers are loaded.
Where is the accojntability? Karhleen Sebelius makes Michael Brown look like the poster boy for can do competence.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Oct 24, 2013 16:02:07 GMT -5
Hurricane Katrina death toll: 1833 ACA Website Glitches death toll: tbd
Apples to apples.
Republicans/conservatives have a finely tuned sense of selective outrage, it's actually quite impressive.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 24, 2013 16:15:28 GMT -5
And all Katrona dead are attributable to the federal response?
Really?
Have an orange...
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Oct 24, 2013 16:26:05 GMT -5
Disingenuousness already called out I see no need to do it again...
You are saying that a bad website rollout is worse than a botched federal response to one of the worst disasters in American history.
I understand the outrage memo went out a few days ago and the usual suspects are banging the drums, but that kind of comparison is unhinged.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 24, 2013 16:44:24 GMT -5
I never said worse. I said her level of incompetence is higher. The loss is obviously not comparable for those who need that spelled out.
They had years to plan this roll out. What the hell was she doing, besides fund raising?
She is a boob of the first order.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 24, 2013 17:25:24 GMT -5
And all Katrona dead are attributable to the federal response? Who's Katrona and does she carry an AK-15?
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 24, 2013 18:28:59 GMT -5
I They had years to plan this roll out. Not true, again. They had no idea what States were going to run their own exchanges and which the federal government was going to need to run until recently, and even so, scaling issues happen no matter how well you plan.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 24, 2013 19:28:24 GMT -5
God bless your commitment. The law was passed in 2010. It is now 2013, late 2013 and they were clearly not ready.
Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
If this were private industry, heads would roll.
To suggest they did not have enough time and went ahead with this slop anyway is not a defense. It is another count in an indictment.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 25, 2013 8:05:59 GMT -5
So we should ignore the impending trainwreck because the Republicans pointed it out first. It has been said that people get the government they deserve. That is both sad and terrifying. You mean those same Republicans who for years now have attempted at any and all costs to prevent millions of Americans from obtaining insurance are now pi$$ed and outraged that the very same people to whom they unsuccessfully attempted to deny coverage are experiencing a delay in obtaining coverage? I would say those Republicans are disingenuous cockroaches of the lowest order, with no credibility to speak on the subject.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 25, 2013 8:21:34 GMT -5
You mean those same Republicans who for years now have attempted at any and all costs to prevent millions of Americans from obtaining insurance are now pi$$ed and outraged that the very same people to whom they unsuccessfully attempted to deny coverage are experiencing a delay in obtaining coverage? I would say they are cockroaches of the lowest order, with no credibility to speak on the subject. Wow. A spot on and extremely objective analysis of the Republican position. You forgot to include the words "Die quickly," but I'll let that slide.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 25, 2013 8:36:19 GMT -5
If you like your plan, you can keep it....
If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor...
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people losing their coverage courtesy of ACA.
Were those promises by BHO misstatements, errors or outright lies?
I dare not conclude, lest I be vilified.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Oct 25, 2013 8:40:49 GMT -5
Yeah, the real answer is "market based solutions." Don't forget "buying across state lines."
The United States is the only developed country in the world without universal healthcare coverage. If someone thinks that's a good thing, they're entitled to their own opinion. But 'repeal and replace' doesn't mean anything when there's no 'replace' plan. Tired platitudes about freedom and free markets do not stop people from having their lives ruined due to lack of health insurance.
I developed many injuries while I was competing for Georgetown. The year after I graduated I broke my ankle, and since I was a freelance worker, I had no insurance. Broken ankle + built up injuries = a long, slow healing process. A lot of money out of pocket, and about six months of limping around D.C.
And I was lucky. Had the injury been more serious, I could have been paying off medical debt for the next twenty years. The system is fundamentally broken. I don't think the ACA is the solution (I believe in single-payer coverage). But Republicans have not offered anything in the alternative, and have literally dedicated the last three years to doing whatever they can to stop health care reform.
The outrage over the website delay just lacks any sense of scale. And the criticisms coming from a party that has given up on governing and now just exists to be 'opposition' is about as cynical as it gets.
What do Republicans think we should do about the American healthcare system?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 25, 2013 9:13:16 GMT -5
Putting ideas in quotes because you disagree with them does not, in fact, invalidate them.
There have been Republican plans. There is one out there right now that has the support of all Republicans in the House.
Now, I grant you, we just had an election and the guy whose plan we are failing to implement right now won that election. I never said the Republicans were great salesmen.
But it is not accurate to say that they have not come up with alternatives.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 25, 2013 9:28:30 GMT -5
What is insanely maddening and disingenuous about the Republican opposition to ACA is that the law is a market based, conservative, REPUBLICAN idea which they proposed, touted, and embraced until their solution was put forth by this administration. All of a sudden, it's the worst communist, socialist idea in the history of the country. I, too, believe we should have implemented single payer.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Oct 25, 2013 9:38:48 GMT -5
There have indeed been Republican plans, one of which is now derisively known as Obamacare.
They're put in quotes because they are NOT plans, they are broad concepts. The Republican plan is tax cuts and tort reform. It is not designed to provide universal coverage in any way, and it relies on market forces to work things out in the end. It's a plan for people who don't see a fundamental problem with our health insurance system.
Putting a band aid on this problem, which is a generous way to describe Republicans' solutions, can hardly be described as an alternative plan. The system is not working. The Republican plan is the same series of platitudes they apply to everything.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 25, 2013 9:40:45 GMT -5
You mean those same Republicans who for years now have attempted at any and all costs to prevent millions of Americans from obtaining insurance are now pi$$ed and outraged that the very same people to whom they unsuccessfully attempted to deny coverage are experiencing a delay in obtaining coverage? I would say they are cockroaches of the lowest order, with no credibility to speak on the subject. Wow. A spot on and extremely objective analysis of the Republican position. You forgot to include the words "Die quickly," but I'll let that slide. That is an insult to disorganized monkeys everywhere. These six are survivalist cockroaches of the lowest order. OK. I'll let Elvado slide because he forgot to include the words "Die quickly" in his post.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 25, 2013 9:44:11 GMT -5
Good for you in admitting you favor single payer. I disagree but respect your position.
I do not favor anything that involves the federal government having more reach into my life than it already has.
I also do not favor any solution that costs me more money. I am not one of the people Senator Reid knows who is itching to pay more taxes.
The federal government gets quite enough of my money as it is. Does that make me selfish? Probably.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 25, 2013 9:57:49 GMT -5
There have been Republican plans. There is one out there right now that has the support of all Republicans in the House. The last actual comprehensive plan involving a Republican was Wyden-Bennett. Guess what happened to Bennett right after that?
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