OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by OldHoyafan on Mar 13, 2014 10:39:51 GMT -5
I think Josh will be back next year and I have more confidence in SR Hopkins at Center than a Freshman at PG. Agree to disagree i guess... At his point I have less confidence in SR Hopkins at center than in my 15-year old niece at PG. As I watched Hamilton simply root out Hopkins for a rebound and put back last night, I too said this experiment of trying to make him a center should have and hopefully ended last night. He is a 4 who should be backing up White or Copeland next year.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 13, 2014 10:52:35 GMT -5
At his point I have less confidence in SR Hopkins at center than in my 15-year old niece at PG. As a starter you might be right. In a back-up role earlier on in the season I thought he played pretty well. Basically we have to hope for Josh to be the guy and Hop improves his consistency in the offseason… Agreed. Hop looked better backing up Smith, but he looked far better playing the 4 alongside Smith. He was showing some promise early on. Smith goes down, and we revert back to Hopkins of old.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 11:19:45 GMT -5
As a starter you might be right. In a back-up role earlier on in the season I thought he played pretty well. Basically we have to hope for Josh to be the guy and Hop improves his consistency in the offseason… Agreed. Hop looked better backing up Smith, but he looked far better playing the 4 alongside Smith. He was showing some promise early on. Smith goes down, and we revert back to Hopkins of old. Yeah that was his best spot and it kind of worked out a bit because they kind of possess some of the qualities the other guys missing. IMO Hopkins can play at this level just not in that role. Needs to be a complimentary bench player. He was much more aggressive in that role also due to the fact that he didn’t have to worry about fouls or thinking the game he could just go out and play. If he fouled out in 15 minutes nobody would care, no pressure. I think he’s capable of filling that role and he could be very good in it if he improves. It all comes down to what Josh can give us unless something opens up over the Summer
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 13, 2014 11:24:21 GMT -5
Agreed. Hop looked better backing up Smith, but he looked far better playing the 4 alongside Smith. He was showing some promise early on. Smith goes down, and we revert back to Hopkins of old. Yeah that was his best spot and it kind of worked out a bit because they kind of possess some of the qualities the other guys missing. IMO Hopkins can play at this level just not in that role. Needs to be a complimentary bench player. He was much more aggressive in that role also due to the fact that he didn’t have to worry about fouls or thinking the game he could just go out and play. If he fouled out in 15 minutes nobody would care, no pressure. I think he’s capable of filling that role and he could be very good in it if he improves. It all comes down to what Josh can give us unless something opens up over the Summer As long as he's a bench player, I'm fine. He's not good enough to start on a good team, period.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 11:31:34 GMT -5
Yeah that was his best spot and it kind of worked out a bit because they kind of possess some of the qualities the other guys missing. IMO Hopkins can play at this level just not in that role. Needs to be a complimentary bench player. He was much more aggressive in that role also due to the fact that he didn’t have to worry about fouls or thinking the game he could just go out and play. If he fouled out in 15 minutes nobody would care, no pressure. I think he’s capable of filling that role and he could be very good in it if he improves. It all comes down to what Josh can give us unless something opens up over the Summer As long as he's a bench player, I'm fine. He's not good enough to start on a good team, period. He’s not, and to think he’s much better this year than last when he started and we were a 2 seed.. I don’t even know what to think about that The fact that this is the same team as last year minus Porter is also crazy
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 13, 2014 11:33:25 GMT -5
As long as he's a bench player, I'm fine. He's not good enough to start on a good team, period. He’s not, and to think he’s much better this year than last when he started and we were a 2 seed.. I don’t even know what to think about that The fact that this is the same team as last year minus Porter is also crazy Yea, I said something similar in the game thread somewhere. It really puts into perspective just how incredible Otto was last year. Truly an all-time great season in Hoya history.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 13, 2014 13:07:39 GMT -5
Next year our front court rotations should be: at the 5 - Smith, Hayes, Moses (in that order) at the 4 - Copeland, Hopkins, White, Mourning (please come), Cameron
If we don't find a serviceable 5th year player, our most important recruit left will be getting Smith eligible in the classroom and Hayes in the weight room.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 13, 2014 13:08:43 GMT -5
disagree. Hopkins is a pretty good 4. He's not a 5 and it's killed him the past two seasons getting forced to play there. Especially in our offense where the 5 has a different set of duties than a PF, generally.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 13, 2014 13:17:00 GMT -5
Next year our front court rotations should be: at the 5 - Smith, Hayes, Moses (in that order) at the 4 - Copeland, Hopkins, White, Mourning (please come), Cameron If we don't find a serviceable 5th year player, our most important recruit left will be getting Smith eligible in the classroom and Hayes in the weight room. I'd keep Copeland out of the 4 spot as long as possible, he seems to be a 3 through and through, making it White, Hopkins, Mourning(if he comes, though why would he want to?), Cameron, then Copeland if need be.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 13, 2014 13:19:47 GMT -5
Next year our front court rotations should be: at the 5 - Smith, Hayes, Moses (in that order) at the 4 - Copeland, Hopkins, White, Mourning (please come), Cameron If we don't find a serviceable 5th year player, our most important recruit left will be getting Smith eligible in the classroom and Hayes in the weight room. I'd keep Copeland out of the 4 spot as long as possible, he seems to be a 3 through and through, making it White, Hopkins, Mourning(if he comes, though why would he want to?), Cameron, then Copeland if need be. yeah I wasnt sure which of Copeland or White would be more situated to play the 4, just figured Copeland had a little size on White.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 13:24:46 GMT -5
If Otto Porter played the 4 at Gtown Issac Copeland can definitely play the 4.. The only way this even becomes relevant is on the defensive side since we generally play 4 out 1 in on offense.
Works pretty well when those 3-4 spots are pretty interchangeable as well. Dajuan and Jeff or Otto and Greg.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 13, 2014 13:27:07 GMT -5
I'd keep Copeland out of the 4 spot as long as possible, he seems to be a 3 through and through, making it White, Hopkins, Mourning(if he comes, though why would he want to?), Cameron, then Copeland if need be. yeah I wasnt sure which of Copeland or White would be more situated to play the 4, just figured Copeland had a little size on White. I mean, I'm no recruiting expert, but I just hate playing players out of position. I think White fits better for the 4 spot and Copeland can really thrive at the 3 spot from what I've seen so far. Ideally I think they should both be 3's, and maybe if Smith comes back they'll both get opportunities at that spot.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 13, 2014 13:29:58 GMT -5
If Otto Porter played the 4 at Gtown Issac Copeland can definitely play the 4.. The only way this even becomes relevant is on the defensive side since we generally play 4 out 1 in on offense. Works pretty well when those 3-4 spots are pretty interchangeable as well. Dajuan and Jeff or Otto and Greg. I didn't say he couldn't play the 4, just that I don't want him to. Just like Dajuan never should have played the four, he was a liability there and it hindered his development. And Greg and Jeff never played the 3 here. The fact that you think there is no difference between the 3 and the 4 in our system but there is a difference between the 1 and the 2 befuddles me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 13:38:20 GMT -5
If Otto Porter played the 4 at Gtown Issac Copeland can definitely play the 4.. The only way this even becomes relevant is on the defensive side since we generally play 4 out 1 in on offense. Works pretty well when those 3-4 spots are pretty interchangeable as well. Dajuan and Jeff or Otto and Greg. I didn't say he couldn't play the 4, just that I don't want him to. Just like Dajuan never should have played the four, he was a liability there and it hindered his development. And Greg and Jeff never played the 3 here. The fact that you think there is no difference between the 3 and the 4 in our system but there is a difference between the 1 and the 2 befuddles me. Huh Greg Whittington never played the 3? Isaac Copeland has been playing the 4 his whole life, he didn’t play the 3 at any highschool or with Garner Roads in the Summer. Right now he’s best 15 feet in. Lastly my meaning was it works best when your 3 can play some 4 and your 4 can play some 3. Having 2 versatile and big players there makes a difference since they will be touching it all over the floor. Regardless of how you feel we play 4 out 1 in on offense so not a lot if difference in Man to man sets between the 2 positions unless they run double post sets or are facing zone.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 13, 2014 13:48:17 GMT -5
I didn't say he couldn't play the 4, just that I don't want him to. Just like Dajuan never should have played the four, he was a liability there and it hindered his development. And Greg and Jeff never played the 3 here. The fact that you think there is no difference between the 3 and the 4 in our system but there is a difference between the 1 and the 2 befuddles me. Huh Greg Whittington never played the 3? Isaac Copeland has been playing the 4 his whole life, he didn’t play the 3 at any highschool or with Garner Roads in the Summer. Right now he’s best 15 feet in. Lastly my meaning was it works best when your 3 can play some 4 and your 4 can play some 3. Having 2 versatile and big players there makes a difference since they will be touching it all over the floor. Regardless of how you feel we play 4 out 1 in on offense so not a lot if difference in Man to man sets between the 2 positions unless they run double post sets or are facing zone. I thought you meant Greg Monroe, my mistake. I keep forgetting Whittington existed. Again I don't disagree at all that Copeland CAN play the 4. I just think his natural position in college and later in the pros is going to be at the 3 and I'd rather not waste time developing him for a position he won't thrive in. I'd also rather not play White at the 4 but I see more potential in him as a college 4 than Copeland. I agree on you meaning though, now that I understand it. Although the 4 out 1 in offense is usually a result of not having 2 strong post players, rather than a preferred style of play. Didn't do that so much with 2 Lottery pick post players.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Mar 13, 2014 13:54:08 GMT -5
Next year our front court rotations should be: at the 5 - Smith, Hayes, Moses (in that order) at the 4 - Copeland, Hopkins, White, Mourning (please come), Cameron If we don't find a serviceable 5th year player, our most important recruit left will be getting Smith eligible in the classroom and Hayes in the weight room. I'd keep Copeland out of the 4 spot as long as possible, he seems to be a 3 through and through, making it White, Hopkins, Mourning(if he comes, though why would he want to?), Cameron, then Copeland if need be. Doesn't White weigh like 190 pounds? You think that guy would be better at the four than Copeland? Yes, if both were to make it to the pros the small forward position is what they would likely play, but in college Copeland can get away with playing a stretch four.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 13:56:13 GMT -5
Huh Greg Whittington never played the 3? Isaac Copeland has been playing the 4 his whole life, he didn’t play the 3 at any highschool or with Garner Roads in the Summer. Right now he’s best 15 feet in. Lastly my meaning was it works best when your 3 can play some 4 and your 4 can play some 3. Having 2 versatile and big players there makes a difference since they will be touching it all over the floor. Regardless of how you feel we play 4 out 1 in on offense so not a lot if difference in Man to man sets between the 2 positions unless they run double post sets or are facing zone. I thought you meant Greg Monroe, my mistake. I keep forgetting Whittington existed. Again I don't disagree at all that Copeland CAN play the 4. I just think his natural position in college and later in the pros is going to be at the 3 and I'd rather not waste time developing him for a position he won't thrive in. I'd also rather not play White at the 4 but I see more potential in him as a college 4 than Copeland. I agree on you meaning though, now that I understand it. Although the 4 out 1 in offense is usually a result of not having 2 strong post players, rather than a preferred style of play. Didn't do that so much with 2 Lottery pick post players. Jeff posted up some but he played on the perimeter just as much. TBH it really only comes into play on Defense and I like Whites ability to guard smaller players than Ike’s at this point. Anything to get them on the floor at he same time though if you ask me. I’m not going to get too hung up on positions just as long as there getting touches where there most effective. I definitely like White’s decision making at the Foul line extended so I would stick him in that Otto role as my middle of zone guy
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 13, 2014 13:59:16 GMT -5
I don't care what numbers you assign them. Get them on the floor together and let them play off of each other. Cuz with the skill sets they both bring to the table, they could be what we all hoped Otto and Whit would become.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Mar 13, 2014 14:12:14 GMT -5
At this point I am just hoping that White and Copeland are not playing the 5 next season!
Because if Josh is not playing: -Hayes getting significant minutes at 5 is a huge projection -Moses or Hopkins getting significant minutes at 5 is too painful to contemplate right now
I'm joking here - hopefully?. Even if Josh can't get his act together - being surrounded by a better group of offensive players should make the severe offensive limitations of a cobbled together 5 rotation of hopkins/hayes/maybe moses won't be quite as exposed as it was this year. Just the ability of copeland/white to hit half their wide open foul line jumpers will change the offense dramatically, compared to the nonexistent shooting threat that Nate/Bowen could offer when they played the 4 during the second half of this year.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 13, 2014 14:27:32 GMT -5
At this point I am just hoping that White and Copeland are not playing the 5 next season! Because if Josh is not playing: -Hayes getting significant minutes at 5 is a huge projection -Moses or Hopkins getting significant minutes at 5 is too painful to contemplate right now I'm joking here - hopefully?. Even if Josh can't get his act together - being surrounded by a better group of offensive players should make the severe offensive limitations of a cobbled together 5 rotation of hopkins/hayes/maybe moses won't be quite as exposed as it was this year. Just the ability of copeland/white to hit half their wide open foul line jumpers will change the offense dramatically, compared to the nonexistent shooting threat that Nate/Bowen could offer when they played the 4 during the second half of this year. I can't even fathom a discussion of what we will do next year if we dont have Josh...I don't know if I could make it through another year of Hokpins/Moses. At least Hayes would get more then 10 minutes a game in that situation please.
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