OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jul 7, 2014 12:50:33 GMT -5
MCI's final take was that given the timing(one month after committing) the kid is not the devil incarnate, but it was not a classy move on his part. I have to agree with that. In the end we are all judged by our actions. Do seventeen year olds make impetuous decisions? Yes of course, but that does not make it above reproach. The young man has been recruited for at least two maybe three years. In that time he has pondered where best his talents could be utilized. Given that the schools he was thinking about committing to were about to fill their 2015 available scholarships, he chose the Hoyas over many major programs. If it was because, as I suspect, the addition of another back-to-the-basket player with more height(Govan) then it was still not classy but I have no problem with it. The reason is because with Govan and Derrickson and the 2014 class the Hoyas cup of back-to-the-basket big men would have been overflowing. The staff knew this, but you don't turn down a commit from a 6'11" 255 lb center with great upside just because you have a commit from 6'7" 250 lb center with great upside. So you take both and hope you can persuade both to stay, but if you asked the staff given the circumstances who would they rather have decommit Dickerson or Govan? The truthful answer would be Dickerson, given the other recruits coming in. The young man is trying to still maximize his talents with what he thinks is the right team. The Hoyas would have loved to have the luxury of having Govan, Derrickson and Dickerson, but they will be ok with the back-to-the-basket personnel if no one else changes their commitment.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jul 7, 2014 23:02:56 GMT -5
MCI's final take was that given the timing(one month after committing) the kid is not the devil incarnate, but it was not a classy move on his part. I have to agree with that. In the end we are all judged by our actions. Do seventeen year olds make impetuous decisions? Yes of course, but that does not make it above reproach. The young man has been recruited for at least two maybe three years. In that time he has pondered where best his talents could be utilized. Given that the schools he was thinking about committing to were about to fill their 2015 available scholarships, he chose the Hoyas over many major programs. If it was because, as I suspect, the addition of another back-to-the-basket player with more height(Govan) then it was still not classy but I have no problem with it. The reason is because with Govan and Derrickson and the 2014 class the Hoyas cup of back-to-the-basket big men would have been overflowing. The staff knew this, but you don't turn down a commit from a 6'11" 255 lb center with great upside just because you have a commit from 6'7" 250 lb center with great upside. So you take both and hope you can persuade both to stay, but if you asked the staff given the circumstances who would they rather have decommit Dickerson or Govan? The truthful answer would be Dickerson, given the other recruits coming in. The young man is trying to still maximize his talents with what he thinks is the right team. The Hoyas would have loved to have the luxury of having Govan, Derrickson and Dickerson, but they will be ok with the back-to-the-basket personnel if no one else changes their commitment. It's about 2 months since his verbal and, since that time, his stock has gone up a good amount. If you read earlier in the thread, there's a reference to him mentioning a dream school and the tone was that he hadn't received an offer from that school. In other words, he'd rather best use his talent at his dream school but they hadn't come calling. I'm not disagreeing with you just to disagree. I'm only saying that, 2 months ago, he likely committed to the closest thing he'd get to his dream school. Now, it seems, he feels he has a better shot at his number one choice that, seemingly, has always been his number one choice which happens not to be Georgetown. I get that one's word means something and that, ideally, one should live up to his word. In this case, however, it could mean the kid missing out on going somewhere he's always wanted to go as opposed to settling for the next best thing in his mind. That's not an easy conversation to have with a coaching staff that recruited you for 2 years plus but I respect the kid for having the conversation. Is it a slap in the face? No. That's too strong a statement. It's unfortunate for us for sure. But if his heart wasn't in it, good on him for letting that be known before he ever made it to campus as a verbal really means very little. If he was going to change his mind, this was the time to do it. It's as though many here would have him go through 4 years (or, maybe, fewer) at a place he wished he hadn't gone. I get that people are disappointed but to call the kid's character into question is moronic. For those questioning his morality/integrity, I really don't know what to say. Exceedingly few of us know the kid. I'm certainly not one that does. I'd be very surprised if the staff didn't know that Georgetown was never Noah's dream school. I'm willing to bet that they knew that. B&G could likely shed more light on that. But part of integrity is honesty. He was honest about wanting to explore his options that he likely didn't think he had when he committed. A lot of posters seem to be taking issue with the age part of it and not "excusing" it because he is young. Most times, the easiest path is just going with the inertia. I know we probably all know people in crappy marriages that stay in them because it's just easier to continue on or it's too messy or scary to end. That's a bit overstated but, in the life of a 17/18 year old, the comparison isn't that far off. Noah ended the "marriage" and that, in a way, says at least as much about his character as his "violation" of his commitment does. Sucks for the Hoyas and will suck for Noah if his other plans don't work out. Hopefully Rabb is on board by then and we can just leave this as offseason discussion.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Jul 8, 2014 9:29:22 GMT -5
Tas:
Where the heck do you get off taking a reasonable, long view approach to an issue here?
Knock it off. There is no place for that here on HoyaTalk
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 8, 2014 10:10:46 GMT -5
Tas: Where the heck do you get off taking a reasonable, long view approach to an issue here? Knock it off. There is no place for that here on HoyaTalk I'm pretty sure that's in the HoyaTalk rules, expect a scolding from Dan!
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 8, 2014 11:02:18 GMT -5
MCI's final take was that given the timing(one month after committing) the kid is not the devil incarnate, but it was not a classy move on his part. I have to agree with that. In the end we are all judged by our actions. Do seventeen year olds make impetuous decisions? Yes of course, but that does not make it above reproach. The young man has been recruited for at least two maybe three years. In that time he has pondered where best his talents could be utilized. Given that the schools he was thinking about committing to were about to fill their 2015 available scholarships, he chose the Hoyas over many major programs. If it was because, as I suspect, the addition of another back-to-the-basket player with more height(Govan) then it was still not classy but I have no problem with it. The reason is because with Govan and Derrickson and the 2014 class the Hoyas cup of back-to-the-basket big men would have been overflowing. The staff knew this, but you don't turn down a commit from a 6'11" 255 lb center with great upside just because you have a commit from 6'7" 250 lb center with great upside. So you take both and hope you can persuade both to stay, but if you asked the staff given the circumstances who would they rather have decommit Dickerson or Govan? The truthful answer would be Dickerson, given the other recruits coming in. The young man is trying to still maximize his talents with what he thinks is the right team. The Hoyas would have loved to have the luxury of having Govan, Derrickson and Dickerson, but they will be ok with the back-to-the-basket personnel if no one else changes their commitment. It's about 2 months since his verbal and, since that time, his stock has gone up a good amount. If you read earlier in the thread, there's a reference to him mentioning a dream school and the tone was that he hadn't received an offer from that school. In other words, he'd rather best use his talent at his dream school but they hadn't come calling. I'm not disagreeing with you just to disagree. I'm only saying that, 2 months ago, he likely committed to the closest thing he'd get to his dream school. Now, it seems, he feels he has a better shot at his number one choice that, seemingly, has always been his number one choice which happens not to be Georgetown. I get that one's word means something and that, ideally, one should live up to his word. In this case, however, it could mean the kid missing out on going somewhere he's always wanted to go as opposed to settling for the next best thing in his mind. That's not an easy conversation to have with a coaching staff that recruited you for 2 years plus but I respect the kid for having the conversation. Is it a slap in the face? No. That's too strong a statement. It's unfortunate for us for sure. But if his heart wasn't in it, good on him for letting that be known before he ever made it to campus as a verbal really means very little. If he was going to change his mind, this was the time to do it. It's as though many here would have him go through 4 years (or, maybe, fewer) at a place he wished he hadn't gone. I get that people are disappointed but to call the kid's character into question is moronic. For those questioning his morality/integrity, I really don't know what to say. Exceedingly few of us know the kid. I'm certainly not one that does. I'd be very surprised if the staff didn't know that Georgetown was never Noah's dream school. I'm willing to bet that they knew that. B&G could likely shed more light on that. But part of integrity is honesty. He was honest about wanting to explore his options that he likely didn't think he had when he committed. A lot of posters seem to be taking issue with the age part of it and not "excusing" it because he is young. Most times, the easiest path is just going with the inertia. I know we probably all know people in crappy marriages that stay in them because it's just easier to continue on or it's too messy or scary to end. That's a bit overstated but, in the life of a 17/18 year old, the comparison isn't that far off. Noah ended the "marriage" and that, in a way, says at least as much about his character as his "violation" of his commitment does. Sucks for the Hoyas and will suck for Noah if his other plans don't work out. Hopefully Rabb is on board by then and we can just leave this as offseason discussion. He didn't end the marriage, he pulled a Rory McClroy(sp?) on the staff, left them at the altar.. Is it a better scenario that Noah did it now? Of course but that doesn't change the fact he handled this situation very poorly.. if he wanted this "dream" school so badly he should've had the guts to wait it out instead of screwing up the staffs momentum with Egbunu & Comanche.. Is he a terribly bad, immoral & unethical person absolutely not but he did kinda screw over people who were good to him..
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 8, 2014 11:15:29 GMT -5
It's about 2 months since his verbal and, since that time, his stock has gone up a good amount. If you read earlier in the thread, there's a reference to him mentioning a dream school and the tone was that he hadn't received an offer from that school. In other words, he'd rather best use his talent at his dream school but they hadn't come calling. I'm not disagreeing with you just to disagree. I'm only saying that, 2 months ago, he likely committed to the closest thing he'd get to his dream school. Now, it seems, he feels he has a better shot at his number one choice that, seemingly, has always been his number one choice which happens not to be Georgetown. I get that one's word means something and that, ideally, one should live up to his word. In this case, however, it could mean the kid missing out on going somewhere he's always wanted to go as opposed to settling for the next best thing in his mind. That's not an easy conversation to have with a coaching staff that recruited you for 2 years plus but I respect the kid for having the conversation. Is it a slap in the face? No. That's too strong a statement. It's unfortunate for us for sure. But if his heart wasn't in it, good on him for letting that be known before he ever made it to campus as a verbal really means very little. If he was going to change his mind, this was the time to do it. It's as though many here would have him go through 4 years (or, maybe, fewer) at a place he wished he hadn't gone. I get that people are disappointed but to call the kid's character into question is moronic. For those questioning his morality/integrity, I really don't know what to say. Exceedingly few of us know the kid. I'm certainly not one that does. I'd be very surprised if the staff didn't know that Georgetown was never Noah's dream school. I'm willing to bet that they knew that. B&G could likely shed more light on that. But part of integrity is honesty. He was honest about wanting to explore his options that he likely didn't think he had when he committed. A lot of posters seem to be taking issue with the age part of it and not "excusing" it because he is young. Most times, the easiest path is just going with the inertia. I know we probably all know people in crappy marriages that stay in them because it's just easier to continue on or it's too messy or scary to end. That's a bit overstated but, in the life of a 17/18 year old, the comparison isn't that far off. Noah ended the "marriage" and that, in a way, says at least as much about his character as his "violation" of his commitment does. Sucks for the Hoyas and will suck for Noah if his other plans don't work out. Hopefully Rabb is on board by then and we can just leave this as offseason discussion. This weekend when I was writing my post I was thinking of using an analogy of a guy who asked a girl to the prom only to abandon her later on when the girl of his dreams started accepting his advances. But I thought...nah..that would be silly. I don't have to go there. But you want to use a marriage as a comparison? Okay. Let's try that. Think of a woman who gets pursued longer and with more vigor by a less alluring guy than she does by the man she is more enamored with. The less alluring guy proposed to her, she tells him she'll think it over, she weighs the pros and cons and then she shows up on that same guy's doorstep with the ring on her finger. Hell, she even made a trip with him to the in-laws during which they set a date for the blessed day. Shortly thereafter she has a bit of a makeover and suddenly more dudes are paying attention to her and showering her with compliments. This leads her to believe that that ideal guy she still has her heart set on will step up in his attention of her and eventually sweep her off her feet. So she goes back to the less alluring guy and tells him she is putting herself back on the market. No hard feelings of course. But she tells the less alluring fella to hang around because if things don't work out as she hopes and she doesn't get that proposal from the man who truly has her heart, well, she may settle, er, I mean accept the proposal from the less alluring guy after all. Now is it better that this woman made a quick turnaround decision by putting an end to the charade? Yes, if the other alternatives were waiting to make that decision at the altar or after wasting several years in a loveless marriage. But you know what the even better alternative would have been? For her to say "no" to the proposal from the very beginning, saving both sides time and resources. So getting back to Dickerson my main issue is his sudden turnaround. I'm not accusing him of doing anything illegal, I do however think it was a bit tacky. Despite some revisionism spewed on this board, the vast majority of bball recruits do not reopen their recruitments, and they certainly don't do so roughly a month after committing. If Dickerson is so thoughtful enough to do supposedly the right thing by reopening his recruitment quickly (and this is giving him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't do so because his stock had suddenly risen), I don't understand why he wasn't thoughtful enough, if he still had such doubts, to keep himself from committing in the first place. But as I made it clear in my initial post I don't think of the kid as being some evil, manipulative kid who willingly and purposely broke the heart of some Hoya fans. I didn't vilify him. On the contrary I feel he appears to be a good kid who just so happened to make a stupid mistake that was, in my opinion, totally avoidable. Yet it seems some of you continue to feel that anyone who doesn't give Dickerson a pass on this are being misguided and unfair. That's not the case. Even those critical of him aren't going overboard by cursing him or the decision. We're only giving our take. Allow other people to have a different view and, just like Dickerson did with his commitment to Gtown, let it go and move on.
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Post by bicentennial on Jul 8, 2014 11:45:11 GMT -5
Nothing to see here. Move along.
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Post by daymondmyles on Jul 8, 2014 13:11:53 GMT -5
I'll admit I was Editeded when this happened. It's hard not take these things personally. But I'm ready to forgive and forget. We need to recruit this kid like we did before. I do think there's still a good chance he ends up here.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jul 8, 2014 15:48:24 GMT -5
I've moved on. The kid, and whoever else he has advising him, saw the writing on the wall and decided it did not portend well for him. Nothing wrong with that.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 8, 2014 16:23:01 GMT -5
Recruiting is a forbidden dance. At its best it is beautiful, exciting, breathtaking, ending in unspeakable joy. But at other times it whirls faster and faster and faster, out of control, until it finally implodes, leaving only pain, sorrow and regret.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Jul 8, 2014 16:48:01 GMT -5
Recruiting is a forbidden dance. At its best it is beautiful, exciting, breathtaking, ending in unspeakable joy. But at other times it whirls faster and faster and faster, out of control, until it finally implodes, leaving only pain, sorrow and regret. Well said.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Jul 8, 2014 16:50:50 GMT -5
What's next, oh that's right, where's them guards at we need?
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by dense on Jul 8, 2014 16:51:50 GMT -5
I'll admit I was Editeded when this happened. It's hard not take these things personally. But I'm ready to forgive and forget. We need to recruit this kid like we did before. I do think there's still a good chance he ends up here. This. Perusing the Duke echosphere they aren't even talking about this kid. He may have other suitors that are blue bloods too. Either way if he truly liked it here we should keep him in the mix even if Ivan Rabb works out.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,013
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Post by jwp91 on Jul 8, 2014 17:28:39 GMT -5
Yes, and interesting that he jumped ship before he got the offer of his dreams.
Something about birds in the hand vs. more birds in the bush.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 8, 2014 17:42:43 GMT -5
It doesn't matter what we think but Noah does have to answer to his family friend, Mutombo. That is who he let down by decommiting and who he will have to answer to at the end of the day.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Post by 757hoyafan on Jul 8, 2014 18:12:47 GMT -5
I'll admit I was Editeded when this happened. It's hard not take these things personally. But I'm ready to forgive and forget. We need to recruit this kid like we did before. I do think there's still a good chance he ends up here. Is it? The only decision of a 17 year old that I am concerned with is the one that my daughter is going to make. The hell w/a kid that I do not know. I hope he's happy with his final choice. Good luck young fella!
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 8, 2014 19:44:11 GMT -5
I think the Govan commitment may have had more to do with Noah's decision than the possibility of Duks showing up at his doorstep. I don't have any hard evidence (or soft evidence - in other words, I have no evidence) of this, but if he felt we recruited over him right away, which would likely result in reduced minutes, then it's hard to be too critical of him for his decision (bummer though it might be - I liked the idea of Govan and Dickerson sharing time at the 5). Time to move on.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 8, 2014 19:59:25 GMT -5
I think the Govan commitment may have had more to do with Noah's decision than the possibility of Duks showing up at his doorstep. I don't have any hard evidence (or soft evidence - in other words, I have no evidence) of this, but if he felt we recruited over him right away, which would likely result in reduced minutes, then it's hard to be too critical of him for his decision (bummer though it might be - I liked the idea of Govan and Dickerson sharing time at the 5). Time to move on. So now it's our fault? There's no need to apologize for him or blame the Hoyas. He made the decision and he has to live with the disappointment from Mutombo.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 8, 2014 20:05:48 GMT -5
I think the Govan commitment may have had more to do with Noah's decision than the possibility of Duks showing up at his doorstep. I don't have any hard evidence (or soft evidence - in other words, I have no evidence) of this, but if he felt we recruited over him right away, which would likely result in reduced minutes, then it's hard to be too critical of him for his decision (bummer though it might be - I liked the idea of Govan and Dickerson sharing time at the 5). Time to move on. Except he did not decommit until 7 weeks after Jessie committed, and he did it pretty shortly after he started to blow up this summer. That would seem to suggest it was more about new suitors than about Govan.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jul 8, 2014 20:33:57 GMT -5
Deke was born in Kinshasa and spends a lot of his time and money trying to better the lives of those still living in the DR of Congo. Do you really think he's concerned about a kid changing his mind about which highly-regarded university he's going to attend? This is getting really silly. I can't speak for Dikembe but of the kids of friends of similar ages that I have a relationship with, my first concern is them being happy with their decisions and their reasoning for the decisions they make. Outside of that, the decision is theirs and that of their parents. My opinion/approval means very little. It's not like Noah is a charity case that wasn't deserving of a scholarship until Deke swooped in and pleaded for Noah to get one.
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