MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,430
|
Post by MCIGuy on Apr 8, 2013 21:15:42 GMT -5
no doubt he could go and be very successful, but I just keep coming back to the idea that he has played about 70 games against even Div I competition other than his family. No matter his maturity or BBIQ or inherent ability, an 82 game season in the NBA is a serious load for a body that valuable. The suggestion that another Div I season is a good long term value to the young man is not that far fetched. You're stretching with that one. So many guys go into the NBA with even less games under their belts....and still end up being very successful. Obviously Otto could surprise by staying another season but we don't want to kid ourselves about the what will get him to stick around.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Apr 8, 2013 21:53:08 GMT -5
no doubt he could go and be very successful, but I just keep coming back to the idea that he has played about 70 games against even Div I competition other than his family. No matter his maturity or BBIQ or inherent ability, an 82 game season in the NBA is a serious load for a body that valuable. The suggestion that another Div I season is a good long term value to the young man is not that far fetched. You're stretching with that one. So many guys go into the NBA with even less games under their belts....and still end up being very successful. Obviously Otto could surprise by staying another season but we don't want to kid ourselves about the what will get him to stick around. I think Seaweed is referring to Otto's lack of AAU play. Other guys go to the NBA with less games in college but they generally have been exposed to D1 level talent for years prior to college because of AAU or even high school play. I think his point is Otto just hasn't faced that level of talent as frequently as most lottery picks do. Either choice Otto makes will be a good one, which is a good position to be in for him. If you compare Otto to III's most successful NBA players he is far less NBA ready than any of them but definitely has the highest stock with no real chance of improvement there. He'd develop faster in the NBA obviously, but then I'd guess that's when emotional and mental maturity and readiness would come into play. Leaving though would definitely the be he safer and easier choice. I can't imagine coming back and having to have everyone and their brother question that decision though. Plus having a top lottery pick would definitely help recruiting and the program more than his stock dropping and then losing to Texas a&m in the first round next year.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Apr 8, 2013 22:52:48 GMT -5
You're stretching with that one. So many guys go into the NBA with even less games under their belts....and still end up being very successful. Obviously Otto could surprise by staying another season but we don't want to kid ourselves about the what will get him to stick around. I think Seaweed is referring to Otto's lack of AAU play. Other guys go to the NBA with less games in college but they generally have been exposed to D1 level talent for years prior to college because of AAU or even high school play. I think his point is Otto just hasn't faced that level of talent as frequently as most lottery picks do. Either choice Otto makes will be a good one, which is a good position to be in for him. If you compare Otto to III's most successful NBA players he is far less NBA ready than any of them but definitely has the highest stock with no real chance of improvement there. He'd develop faster in the NBA obviously, but then I'd guess that's when emotional and mental maturity and readiness would come into play. Leaving though would definitely the be he safer and easier choice. I can't imagine coming back and having to have everyone and their brother question that decision though. Plus having a top lottery pick would definitely help recruiting and the program more than his stock dropping and then losing to Texas a&m in the first round next year. I just remember when Monroe gave us two good years and then some people on here started to get delusional thinking he was going to stay for his junior year. When Monroe left they got angry and started saying Monroe isn't ready for the NBA, doesn't want "it" and should have stayed one more year.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
|
Post by This Just In on Apr 8, 2013 23:11:01 GMT -5
I saw this past year Otto Porter suffer a concussion in one game and various injuries in other games...I do not think anything else needs to be said.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Apr 8, 2013 23:15:29 GMT -5
I think Seaweed is referring to Otto's lack of AAU play. Other guys go to the NBA with less games in college but they generally have been exposed to D1 level talent for years prior to college because of AAU or even high school play. I think his point is Otto just hasn't faced that level of talent as frequently as most lottery picks do. Either choice Otto makes will be a good one, which is a good position to be in for him. If you compare Otto to III's most successful NBA players he is far less NBA ready than any of them but definitely has the highest stock with no real chance of improvement there. He'd develop faster in the NBA obviously, but then I'd guess that's when emotional and mental maturity and readiness would come into play. Leaving though would definitely the be he safer and easier choice. I can't imagine coming back and having to have everyone and their brother question that decision though. Plus having a top lottery pick would definitely help recruiting and the program more than his stock dropping and then losing to Texas a&m in the first round next year. I just remember when Monroe gave us two good years and then some people on here started to get delusional thinking he was going to stay for his junior year. When Monroe left they got angry and started saying Monroe isn't ready for the NBA, doesn't want "it" and should have stayed one more year. Not sure what this has to do with anything. The same thing happened to Jeff, and Hollis, and Summers, and basically anyone who leaves before they graduate. Overall though I don't think anyone actually thinks Otto is coming back. There is just nothing else to talk about right now. Of all our early entry players over the years though Otto will definitely receive the least amount of flak for leaving early and probably receive more criticism if he did decide to come back (mostly from the national media but I get the feeling there will be some from this board and fans as well).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 1:07:56 GMT -5
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Apr 9, 2013 8:36:31 GMT -5
I saw this past year Otto Porter suffer a concussion in one game and various injuries in other games...I do not think anything else needs to be said. Do you know the definition of an injury?
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Apr 9, 2013 8:39:12 GMT -5
I saw this past year Otto Porter suffer a concussion in one game and various injuries in other games...I do not think anything else needs to be said. There's been "nothing to be said" for a week, and still, here were are on page 5 of this thread.
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,911
|
Post by Filo on Apr 9, 2013 8:45:46 GMT -5
I just remember when Monroe gave us two good years and then some people on here started to get delusional thinking he was going to stay for his junior year. When Monroe left they got angry and started saying Monroe isn't ready for the NBA, doesn't want "it" and should have stayed one more year. Not sure what this has to do with anything. The same thing happened to Jeff, and Hollis, and Summers, and basically anyone who leaves before they graduate. Overall though I don't think anyone actually thinks Otto is coming back. There is just nothing else to talk about right now. Of all our early entry players over the years though Otto will definitely receive the least amount of flak for leaving early and probably receive more criticism if he did decide to come back (mostly from the national media but I get the feeling there will be some from this board and fans as well). The flak is (obviously) more of the "what if" type of lament -- what if Jeff stayed? Or Greg? Strike while the iron is hot, and those guys (esp. Jeff) were hot prospects when they declared. I don't think any rational poster begrudged either Jeff or Greg for leaving. I don't think they will begrudge Otto for leaving.
|
|
|
Post by DownTownJoeyBrown on Apr 9, 2013 9:03:02 GMT -5
Interesting insight from ESPN & Chad Ford, which was updated as recently as yesterday. They have otto listed as:
50-50 Players who are still deciding about declaring for the draft
I would say more like a 90-10 that he goes but maybe there is some hope.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
|
Post by This Just In on Apr 9, 2013 9:04:30 GMT -5
I saw this past year Otto Porter suffer a concussion in one game and various injuries in other games...I do not think anything else needs to be said. Do you know the definition of an injury? Any contact from an opponent that caused Otto Porter to either sit out a full game, miss part of a game or caused stoppage of play during a game.
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on Apr 9, 2013 9:17:46 GMT -5
Do you know the definition of an injury? Any contact from an opponent that caused Otto Porter to either sit out a full game, miss part of a game or caused stoppage of play during a game. Kevin Ware didn't make contact with an opponent, but I think his leg exploding constitutes an injury.
|
|
|
Post by hoyafan2014 on Apr 9, 2013 9:19:12 GMT -5
Reasons to Leave: Money New challenge He's mature enough and ready in every regard. Possible Injury
Reasons to Stay: Maybe he loves the college experience Chance to win National Championship Chance to go down as the best forward in Hoyas history One year closer to a college degree Maybe he feels that he could use another year or two in college? Maybe he enjoys the limelight right now?
That article about Jeff Green's rookie year was very interesting with how lonely he was. He would be a good person for Otto to talk to.
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on Apr 9, 2013 9:31:22 GMT -5
Mature enough? Probably.
Ready in every regard? Come on. That's a bit of a stretch.
Unless you mean, "as much as the vast majority of all players who enter the draft early."
I am not disputing Otto's talent or his impressive array of skills. Nor am I trying to make an argument for him to stay.
But I think it's vastly overstating things to say that his game is NBA ready right now. I don't think it's close.
Having said that, IMO, most players who enter the draft, early or otherwise, are not NBA ready. But most NBA GMs don't really seem to care.
Also having said that, Otto is definitely going to become a much better player over the next couple of years and beyond. He will probably be able to develop better next year in NBA camps, practices and games than he will in Kenner league and college practices and games. And he'll have a lot of money to boot.
So yeah, he probably should and will leave. But I don't buy that he's "ready," certainly not in every regard.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,397
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 9, 2013 10:20:20 GMT -5
Also having said that, Otto is definitely going to become a much better player over the next couple of years and beyond. He will probably be able to develop better next year in NBA camps, practices and games than he will in Kenner league and college practices and games. And he'll have a lot of money to boot. Plus, basketball will be his job, and he'll have a lot more time to do it. We don't know what drives Otto's decision making process. We can only speculate. Obviously a strong argument can be made for him to declare. Perhaps I'm just deluding myself, but I believe that a higher than usual (for this situation) probability exists that Otto returns. Still smaller than leaving, but higher than usual.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,678
|
Post by seaweed on Apr 9, 2013 10:49:09 GMT -5
I saw this past year Otto Porter suffer a concussion in one game and various injuries in other games...I do not think anything else needs to be said. right, cause the guys in the League will take it easy on him and there is no risk of injury at the higher level. This goes to my earlier point of being physically ready, not to make a play at that level, but to last a whole season without breaking down. the same people who say he wore down this season are saying he should definitely go to the draft and try to nut out a three game a week, 82 game season...smh man. and just to be clear - people talk about "the majority of guys who go early" and all the great early entrants. nobody is suggesting even the remotest danger in Otto's case, but don't forget that the VAST majority of kids who go early end up playing overseas, D-league etc. people are talking like all you do is declare and your a made man when we all know it is about the second contract and nobody did better on his second deal than cough cough four year starter cough cough Roy Hibbert.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,366
|
Post by calhoya on Apr 9, 2013 10:52:10 GMT -5
Otto is probably hearing what others are being told--this is a weak year for the draft and the chances are that he will go higher or as high as if he stayed for another year and risked injury. Jamal Franklin (SDSU) and Tony Snell (New Mexico) are being given the same advice. Snell is already declared, though he is clearly not NBA ready. Franklin is likely to go too, with many question marks about his current readiness. Otto is cleaerly a more complete player than either of them.
I continue to believe that Otto declaring for the draft is actually good for the program, long term. As recruiting becomes more problemmatic in the new conference, without the history of the old Big East, the Hoyas will need to be able to attract quality players--not necesarily the one and dones, but at least those interested in going to the NBA after a couple of years of development. It also strengthens JT III's argument that he can prepare kids for the next level and will not stand in their way if they are ready to make the move.
|
|
|
Post by dungeon ball on Apr 9, 2013 11:02:26 GMT -5
I continue to believe that Otto declaring for the draft is actually good for the program, long term. As recruiting becomes more problemmatic in the new conference, without the history of the old Big East, the Hoyas will need to be able to attract quality players--not necesarily the one and dones, but at least those interested in going to the NBA after a couple of years of development. It also strengthens JT III's argument that he can prepare kids for the next level and will not stand in their way if they are ready to make the move. I get this argument and agree with it for the most part. But if he does return, we are easily a top 5 team, with potentially one of the pre-season POY's. With that kind of hype, and presumed success, that might actually go further in attracting recruits, right? Not to mention, it's good for the conference, because then we have two members (Marquette) in the top 10 potentially.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,397
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 9, 2013 11:08:09 GMT -5
Right!
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,366
|
Post by calhoya on Apr 9, 2013 11:15:39 GMT -5
I continue to believe that Otto declaring for the draft is actually good for the program, long term. As recruiting becomes more problemmatic in the new conference, without the history of the old Big East, the Hoyas will need to be able to attract quality players--not necesarily the one and dones, but at least those interested in going to the NBA after a couple of years of development. It also strengthens JT III's argument that he can prepare kids for the next level and will not stand in their way if they are ready to make the move. I get this argument and agree with it for the most part. But if he does return, we are easily a top 5 team, with potentially one of the pre-season POY's. With that kind of hype, and presumed success, that might actually go further in attracting recruits, right? You are absolutely right. However, if he returns and regresses, it could go the other way. Moreover, if the team does not do well with Otto, Whittington and an experienced lineup, then the impact on recruiting would be negative. I see upside for the fans, but none whatsoever for Otto, unless he is truly the rare star player who values his time on campus and wants the education.
|
|