This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 11, 2013 19:48:49 GMT -5
You left out Burke, who is probably going to be the one who gets it. I agree he probably gets it. But Burke is the one guy I don't understand how he fits. Is he a great player? Sure, definitely. But he is the point guard, and leader, for a team that has lost almost every game against a top team that it has played this year. The exception is a ONE point victory at home against Michigan St. Michigan does not deliver in the biggest games. That has to be an issue for Burke.
In the last, and most important of those games, the guy misses TWO 1 and 1's to salt the game away. Not one, a mistake. But TWO! A full choke job. And that's the player of the year?I think there is some of that BIG10 bias afoot...that it is the best conference so it would either then be Burke or Oladipo
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Mar 11, 2013 19:58:27 GMT -5
Oladipo not being given the ball on Indiana's final possession against Michigan, but instead Zeller, says a lot to me. For every "heisman moment" that Oladipo has had, none of them are really at the end of the games in crunch time. While he has dominated games via hustle plays in which he didn't score a lot, Otto has completely taken over the game (cuse) as well as having a rough night but still clutching up when it matters (Uconn).
Also, Burke/Oladipo have loads more help to get rid of double teams than Otto.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Mar 11, 2013 19:59:00 GMT -5
I think Oladipo is fantastic and will have no problem if he wins. I haven't watched the others that much except for Otto. But wow our #22 has really come on and is almost cerrtain to be BE POY and 1st-team AA. Even Jeff didn't get that.
Loved, loved the Ottoman Empire and Porter for Pope signs in Verizon on Saturday.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 11, 2013 20:27:54 GMT -5
Oladipo not being given the ball on Indiana's final possession against Michigan, but instead Zeller, says a lot to me. For every "heisman moment" that Oladipo has had, none of them are really at the end of the games in crunch time. While he has dominated games via hustle plays in which he didn't score a lot, Otto has completely taken over the game (cuse) as well as having a rough night but still clutching up when it matters (Uconn). Also, Burke/Oladipo have loads more help to get rid of double teams than Otto. Dipo is playing next to a guy who is projected to go 4th-7th in the first round in Zeller. Just imagine how much more dominant Otto and the Hoyas would be with Zeller. Yet, the media seem to be favoring Dipo so I have a feeling Dipo will win.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Mar 11, 2013 20:33:47 GMT -5
I'm not questioning that we would be better without him, just that Otto's chances at NPOY are better without him.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 11, 2013 20:46:06 GMT -5
I am on of those that likes to look at the value a player has to his team. To me, that makes Otto the clear #1 choice. He does it all for the Hoyas and has elevated them to heights no one ever could have expected.
As for Oladipo, it would be weird for him to win National POY but not B1G POY. Also, I do not like that he only plays 28 minutes a game, I know that is being picky but it also shows me his team is very deep and does not need him like the other players being considered.
Burke is clearly being pushed by the media as #1 and it does seem kind of foolish after he misses a 1 and 1 to ice the game against IU. He did win POY in the best conference for a very highly visible program so I think it is his to lose.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 11, 2013 21:19:41 GMT -5
Oladipo's incredibly efficient and a good perimeter defender, though those defenders tend to be overrated, and he has a 7' behind him to erase mistakes. But he doesn't really dominate possessions, partially because of the talent on his team.
Trey Burke is incredibly efficient and dominates his offense. Offensively, no one is doing more and better for his team over the full course of the season. And while I haven't watched him enough to get a feel for his D, he seems to at least get steals. He's on a very good team losing to a bunch of very good teams -- I'm not going to punish him much for that.
Otto has been incredibly efficient and has dominated the offense over the last 14 games. He's a great defender and by virtue of playing more down low, probably has more impact on D than Oladipo and Burke. Otto's issue is not just that the media perceives him as just entering the discussion -- it's that he really is just entering the discussion. If you take his full year numbers, he doesn't look like he should win.
Should POY be POY for the whole year? Should Otto not be punished for not asserting himself much in a 10-1 non-conference (though if he had, would we have lost more than 1-2 games all year?). Should it be the best player at year's end? Or just in conference play?
I think there's legitimate arguments all around for Burke and Porter. I'm not a fan of best-player-on-best-team arguments, but most people are. And that's Oladipo right now, even if Indiana isn't #1.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 11, 2013 22:13:48 GMT -5
Let's be honest here, for the better part of the last 15 or so years, both Indiana and Michigan have been pretty bad. But they're both storied programs with history and LOTS of fans. Now they're back near the top of the heap and naturally the media is slobbering all over them. It's going to be nearly impossible for Otto to overcome those circumstances.
I've watched a pretty good amount of both Michigan and Indiana this year. If Trey Burke wins it, I have no gripes. Yes, he came up small in crunch time of the biggest game of the season so far, but the kid has been pretty dominant and consistent all year. 2 FTs are hardly enough to cost him the award imo.
As far as Oladipo, I just really don't get it. Even if you use the "best player on the best team" argument, is he even the best player on that team? I don't think that's a given. Like someone else mentioned, he has the luxury of picking his spots and he generally makes highlight reel plays when he does. Most of his jumpers are wide open shots so it's no surprise his 3p% is pretty high. He rarely takes a contested shot. Clearly he's an elite defender. I just don't see a NPOY here. Incredibly gifted athletically, but take him off that team and they're still top 10 probably. Take Burke off Michigan or Otto of our team, and neither team is top 25 I don't think.
All that said, completely objectively speaking, I think Otto is the best individual basketball player in the country. But Burke isn't too far behind.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 11, 2013 22:30:19 GMT -5
I think we sort of know it's going to be Burke and I can't really complain about that. But I don't think it would be him without Michigan's Fab Five and Jalen on the ESPN staff. If it were less about numbers and more about POY, it'd be Otto and I don't think it's all that debatable. I know there's hyperbole to be considered and it's Boeheim but for an opposing coach to say that a player on a team that they've scouted and played twice to repeatedly say that Otto should be the number one pick in the draft and it isn't a question says a heckuva lot about Otto. I, sadly, think that he's going to have to settle for that sort of praise and runner up voting but that's pretty great nonetheless. That said, considering that all of this voting really is about numbers and not the players the respective guys are for their team, Otto is a team first guy. For a guy of his skill level to still be a team first guy as opposed to say anyone that plays for Cuse, that's an even bigger testament to the player that Porter is. POY or not, Otto is a Hoya legend already and he hasn't yet finished his sophomore year. He's in elite company and deservedly so. The kid is phenomenal.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 11, 2013 22:31:47 GMT -5
An interesting question might be which coaches of the teams with prospective POY candidates would choose their guy over having Otto? It's largely team-dependent for sure but probably an interesting offseason discussion.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Mar 11, 2013 23:44:11 GMT -5
One factor that could cut in Porter's favor is that Burke and Dipo split Big 10 Drooler votes and Porter sneaks away with it.
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Post by mattwhite12 on Apr 5, 2013 11:40:17 GMT -5
according to casual hoyas twitter feed otto finished 4th behind burke, oladipo, and mcdermott in the wooden award voting.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Apr 5, 2013 11:53:50 GMT -5
according to casual hoyas twitter feed otto finished 4th behind burke, oladipo, and mcdermott in the wooden award voting. No shiddddddddddddddddddddd....
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 6, 2013 8:24:34 GMT -5
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Apr 6, 2013 19:46:38 GMT -5
no offense to otto, but wooden award winner's team does not lose in the first round.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Apr 6, 2013 23:41:42 GMT -5
no offense to otto, but wooden award winner's team does not lose in the first round. I don't agree with this but I agree with the thought behind it. With a team as good as the Hoyas were this year, to flame out in the first round should almost necessarily have disqualified Otto from the top couple of slots. Had we made a Cuse run? Otto hands down.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by skyhoya on Apr 7, 2013 7:41:45 GMT -5
it is all finally just politics, you have to be playing on Final Four weekend. Once you lose in the tourney, everyone forgets about you
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