OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 20, 2013 9:33:55 GMT -5
Good point by RDF about Hopkins playing our "showcase" position and literally being a negative player. Perhaps we do not need to analyze further than that as to why this team is not working - but what fun would that be? Skyhoya, makes a good point too, Hopkins absence puts a huge burden on several players on defense so it is not as simple as just taking Hopkins out and playing without a center like I suggest earlier in this thread. I am not scapegoating, it is a fact Hopkins complete failure to develop since last year, has submarined this season. We can talk about making all the adjustments and adaptations to playing time and criticize JT3, but this is probably too big an issue to successfully solve for nearly any coach, especially when your shutdown defensive player and #2 on offense is out. Man, I hate being realistic. Ok, III has adjusted to Hopkins none development by going small with Nate. He still was able to play good D and keep teams from scoring with Whit. Now that Whit is gone, playing Nate at center and DSR first sub, they can not keep teams from scoring. III needs to more for this team to win against good teams.
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DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,641
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Post by DallasHoya on Jan 20, 2013 10:01:10 GMT -5
Would love to see Hopkins' +/- from last night. Bet it was at least minus 10. We were significantly outplayed at the very beginning of both halfs, and that's pretty much the only time he was playing. I'm not one of those who thinks Moses will lead us out of the promised land, but at least he won't lead us back into Egypt.
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyabinx on Jan 20, 2013 10:19:24 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 20, 2013 12:58:32 GMT -5
Hopkins was -8, but then again, so was Otto.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Post by skyhoya on Jan 20, 2013 19:52:07 GMT -5
III recruited Hop for some reason. He also recruited Hayes for some reason. Don't we remember how awful Roy looked his freshman year. Need to give Hayes a lot of run and see if he is going to be the man in the future, we shouldn't lose much from where we are now.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 20, 2013 20:24:50 GMT -5
III recruited Hop for some reason. He also recruited Hayes for some reason. Don't we remember how awful Roy looked his freshman year. Need to give Hayes a lot of run and see if he is going to be the man in the future, we shouldn't lose much from where we are now. Hopefully JTIII doesn't have Roy on his mind while recruiting these prospects. Roy was a one of a kind worker and had a few natural intangible attributes (ie soft hands).
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Post by skyhoya on Jan 20, 2013 20:43:21 GMT -5
your point, hometown.? Mine was that III developed Hibbs, perhaps he can develop Hayes too. Sometimes you just post to post and add nothing top the conversation.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 20, 2013 20:53:25 GMT -5
your point, hometown.? Mine was that III developed Hibbs, perhaps he can develop Hayes too. Sometimes you just post to post and add nothing top the conversation. The difference is that Roy got to play.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
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Post by skyhoya on Jan 20, 2013 21:14:50 GMT -5
no kidding
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 20, 2013 23:47:00 GMT -5
your point, hometown.? Mine was that III developed Hibbs, perhaps he can develop Hayes too. Sometimes you just post to post and add nothing top the conversation. My point is that as much as JTIII helped Roy, Roy helped himself. Nate has done this but who else in the front court has shown us personal improvement during an offseason. I agree that PT plays a large role in development but so does personal dedication and hard work. I also hope that Hayes can give us more but I don't think he's the answer this year.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 21, 2013 17:28:39 GMT -5
your point, hometown.? Mine was that III developed Hibbs, perhaps he can develop Hayes too. Sometimes you just post to post and add nothing top the conversation. My point is that as much as JTIII helped Roy, Roy helped himself. Nate has done this but who else in the front court has shown us personal improvement during an offseason. I agree that PT plays a large role in development but so does personal dedication and hard work. I also hope that Hayes can give us more but I don't think he's the answer this year. Roy also had a natural size advantage that was rare in college basketball at the time. And yes, III developed him....but Roy was a natural hard worker and he turned himself into a player as much as anything...I completely get hometown's point
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DoctorHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,544
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 21, 2013 18:33:56 GMT -5
III recruited Hop for some reason. He also recruited Hayes for some reason. Don't we remember how awful Roy looked his freshman year. Need to give Hayes a lot of run and see if he is going to be the man in the future, we shouldn't lose much from where we are now. Hops recruitment was what much of the past few years have been about, missing out on bigger targets. I completely agree with Hometown's assessment on Roy as a hard worker and Nate being the only front court player on the current team who has made that commitment. Hopkins has not made that commitment yet, or hasnt made enough of a commitment--however you want to look at it. While we can hope that Hayes can make that transition over the upcoming offseason, the most important person who needs to make the commitment is Josh Smith--Hayes has until the beginning of the 2014-15 season to get his act together. If he's in the gym every day from now until then, he WILL be an impact player. Here's to hoping for the best.
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KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by KirbyKeger on Jan 21, 2013 22:11:28 GMT -5
Is there even a question of who should be starting now? Moses pulled down 10 boards tonight matched up against Cooley. That is HUGE. Sure, he doesn't add much on offense, but honestly, I'd prefer that to the surplus of turnovers from Mikael. Hopkins by the way is averaging about 2.5 rebounds a game which is completely unacceptable from a college center. I personally see literally no reason why Moses shouldn't play over Hopkins.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2013 22:32:21 GMT -5
10 Boards.. 24 minutes..
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 21, 2013 22:33:46 GMT -5
I think it will be "by committee" the rest of the way. Hops starting and Nate/Moses combined for about the same time. no problem with that as long as they play aggresively, but smart.
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3xhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 3xhoya on Jan 21, 2013 22:54:14 GMT -5
I don't really want to rag on Hopkins, but how he could he pull down 0 boards in 15 minutes? It is almost like he is allergic to the ball.
It was only for a very brief period but I feel Hopkins did play better when he was in there with Moses. I do not trust the face up jumper but using them at the same time could work nicely on the D end to increase our size a bit. Also, I just like that JT3 was willing to experiment a bit there.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 21, 2013 22:56:35 GMT -5
Starting a center at center would be a novel approach. Moses had as many boards in the second half as Hop has in conference play. We can either play Moses more or just ask Hop to foul out quickly every game. I vote for the former.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 21, 2013 23:15:35 GMT -5
Moses is hardly fluid on offense, can't shoot very well and was definitely helped this game by playing against a traditional center as his footspeed is pretty poor.
That said, his rebounding alone makes him a better play than Hopkins (who played better today, but not better than Moses).
I don't really see the point of putting two guys with no real offensive game out there at once. So while playing with Moses might benefit Hopkins, it's not better than Nate or Otto at the 4.
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DoctorHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,544
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 22, 2013 7:46:21 GMT -5
I don't really want to rag on Hopkins, but how he could he pull down 0 boards in 15 minutes? It is almost like he is allergic to the ball. It was only for a very brief period but I feel Hopkins did play better when he was in there with Moses. I do not trust the face up jumper but using them at the same time could work nicely on the D end to increase our size a bit. Also, I just like that JT3 was willing to experiment a bit there. Agreed, I really liked the look of having Hopkins at the 4... He didn't look nearly as confused. He has always been 'somewhat good' at moving without the ball and I feel like his big problem at center is being able to post up and hit those hook shots/lay-ups and rebound aggressively. I would like to see more of him at the 4 but doubt its gonna happen considering we play Louisville this weekend.
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biggmanu
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 22, 2013 8:38:24 GMT -5
Hop should be aggressive early fouling hard when necessary, and not worry about fouling out. 5 points and 5 fouls with extra Moses is the best we are going to get out of this center situation.
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