Deleted
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 17:31:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 17:31:34 GMT -5
DSR did a very nice job on offensive end and kept team competitive as Markel wasn't on--and as many have said that can't happen with this group--especially with Whittington out. Defensively, it's just going to be what it is-but he's done a good job of contributing on the glass, so at least he's digging down and finding ways to contribute that fit his abilities. DSR is already a better defender then Freeman. That doesn't speak to DSR's abilities so much as those players deficiencies. Fixed it for you Sleepy!
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sleepy
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 17:39:08 GMT -5
Post by sleepy on Jan 20, 2013 17:39:08 GMT -5
DSR is already a better defender then Freeman. That doesn't speak to DSR's abilities so much as those players deficiencies. Fixed it for you Sleepy! Chris could have been a good defender but he had 0 discipline on that end. He was fast and had the ability but was always out of position off the ball and went for the big play too much. Clark was fast up and down but was about as laterally quick as Wallace with 0 clue about positioning and rotatations. There was a reason our worst perimeter defensive team was with this group. They were all dumb dumb defenders, who sometimes lacked motivation on that end. And none of them besides Freeman get any cricticism for how bad they were because they would occasionally make an athletic play and cover it up. Its the number 1 reason why that group didn't do more.
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EtomicB
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 17:52:52 GMT -5
Post by EtomicB on Jan 20, 2013 17:52:52 GMT -5
Chris could have been a good defender but he had 0 discipline on that end. He was fast and had the ability but was always out of position off the ball and went for the big play too much. Clark was fast up and down but was about as laterally quick as Wallace with 0 clue about positioning and rotatations. There was a reason our worst perimeter defensive team was with this group. They were all dumb dumb defenders, who sometimes lacked motivation on that end. And none of them besides Freeman get any cricticism for how bad they were because they would occasionally make an athletic play and cover it up. Its the number 1 reason why that group didn't do more. If you give me a choice between Freeman & DSR, I'm taking Freeman every time. All due respect to DSR who I like.
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sleepy
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 18:11:38 GMT -5
Post by sleepy on Jan 20, 2013 18:11:38 GMT -5
Chris could have been a good defender but he had 0 discipline on that end. He was fast and had the ability but was always out of position off the ball and went for the big play too much. Clark was fast up and down but was about as laterally quick as Wallace with 0 clue about positioning and rotatations. There was a reason our worst perimeter defensive team was with this group. They were all dumb dumb defenders, who sometimes lacked motivation on that end. And none of them besides Freeman get any cricticism for how bad they were because they would occasionally make an athletic play and cover it up. Its the number 1 reason why that group didn't do more. If you give me a choice between Freeman & DSR, I'm taking Freeman every time. All due respect to DSR who I like. On defense? They are pretty similar there imo, with DSR actually showing improvement in his half a season here that Freeman never showed on that end in his career. As a total player, obviously, who wouldn't take Freeman.
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Deleted
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 18:13:45 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 18:13:45 GMT -5
Chris could have been a good defender but he had 0 discipline on that end. He was fast and had the ability but was always out of position off the ball and went for the big play too much. Clark was fast up and down but was about as laterally quick as Wallace with 0 clue about positioning and rotatations. There was a reason our worst perimeter defensive team was with this group. They were all dumb dumb defenders, who sometimes lacked motivation on that end. And none of them besides Freeman get any cricticism for how bad they were because they would occasionally make an athletic play and cover it up. Its the number 1 reason why that group didn't do more. Clark by effort alone is the best defender out of that group, plus he always guarded the best player on the other team. Now we can argue about results but he accepted the challenge and worked his butt off. IMO Chris and DSR are probably on a similar level defensively..
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sleepy
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 19:23:04 GMT -5
Post by sleepy on Jan 20, 2013 19:23:04 GMT -5
Chris could have been a good defender but he had 0 discipline on that end. He was fast and had the ability but was always out of position off the ball and went for the big play too much. Clark was fast up and down but was about as laterally quick as Wallace with 0 clue about positioning and rotatations. There was a reason our worst perimeter defensive team was with this group. They were all dumb dumb defenders, who sometimes lacked motivation on that end. And none of them besides Freeman get any cricticism for how bad they were because they would occasionally make an athletic play and cover it up. Its the number 1 reason why that group didn't do more. Clark by effort alone is the best defender out of that group, plus he always guarded the best player on the other team. Now we can argue about results but he accepted the challenge and worked his butt off. IMO Chris and DSR are probably on a similar level defensively.. We will have to agree to disagree.
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mapei
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 19:50:37 GMT -5
Post by mapei on Jan 20, 2013 19:50:37 GMT -5
Sleepy has a high ratio of posts-with-something-negative-about-Jason to total posts. Just saying.
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EasyEd
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 19:51:54 GMT -5
Post by EasyEd on Jan 20, 2013 19:51:54 GMT -5
Chris could have been a good defender but he had 0 discipline on that end. He was fast and had the ability but was always out of position off the ball and went for the big play too much. Clark was fast up and down but was about as laterally quick as Wallace with 0 clue about positioning and rotatations. There was a reason our worst perimeter defensive team was with this group. They were all dumb dumb defenders, who sometimes lacked motivation on that end. And none of them besides Freeman get any cricticism for how bad they were because they would occasionally make an athletic play and cover it up. Its the number 1 reason why that group didn't do more. Clark by effort alone is the best defender out of that group, plus he always guarded the best player on the other team. Now we can argue about results but he accepted the challenge and worked his butt off. IMO Chris and DSR are probably on a similar level defensively.. Agree.
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sleepy
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DSR
Jan 20, 2013 23:12:34 GMT -5
Post by sleepy on Jan 20, 2013 23:12:34 GMT -5
Sleepy has a high ratio of posts-with-something-negative-about-Jason to total posts. Just saying. If he wasn't incredibley overrated defensively this would not be the case, as I actually like the kid. His long arms and quickness gave him great potential defensively and he showed promise a few times as a freshman and sophomore. That's why he got the tough assigments, he looked like a good defender. However, his defensive footwork was inexcusable for a high caliber division 1 starter, he was constantly lost, never rotated, and played with his hands. He was a horrible defender and I had to hear for four years how he was a "good" or decent defender. He was equally as bad as everyone else, except he had some potential to be good so it was infuriating. He wasted that defensively. He actually got worse as the his career went on. Even when he tried to play good position defense last year he would get burned somehow. But no, he'd reached over after getting beat 4 out of 5 times and he's an "effort" guy who was our defensive rock. Please, give me a break. He was a lazy dumb defender, who was also one of my favorite players the last four years. Chris Wright was my favorite player during his time here, and he is equally a guilty. He was pathetic on rotations with a low defensive IQ, would reach instead of playing with his feet, and rarely stayed between his man and the ball. He had the lateral quickness that Clark lacked so he at least could play some pretty decent man defense if he chose to, the problem was he wasn't 100% committed at that end of the floor. Fortunately his praises are rarely sung on this board, especially not defensively, so this discussion never comes up. If any of those three players had any defensive IQ we could have hid their numerous deficiencies with a zone. However, they were so bad and short that every time we went zone it was automatic points for the other team. Unlike this team, they could make them up pretty quickly, so it wasn't the end of the world. I put DSR in the Wallace category defensively. Never going to be a great defender but will improve and do what he needs to do on that end to be a positive or atleast not a huge negative. The other three had far more potential and were largely our biggest defensive deficiency. That all being said I did and do love all three of those players. It's beyond annoying to hear nonstop complaining about DSR's defense when we hear relatively little complaining for four years about even worse displays on that end of the court. At least there has been obvious effort in improvement from Rivera. Chris, Austin and Clark just got worse as the years went on.
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seaweed
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 8:07:26 GMT -5
Post by seaweed on Jan 21, 2013 8:07:26 GMT -5
DSR will prove to be an exceptional defensive player, far superior to any of the three guys you are comparing him to. To suggest that he won't is to ignore the fact that rebounding is part of a defensive skill-set.
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hoyainspirit
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 8:38:29 GMT -5
Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 21, 2013 8:38:29 GMT -5
One of the things Clark brought was his ability to rebound as a guard.
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calhoya
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 8:38:31 GMT -5
Post by calhoya on Jan 21, 2013 8:38:31 GMT -5
It would be nice if DSR's defense was the primary problem that this team has right now. He has a lot to learn but I have seen the effort that was missing at first.
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NCHoya
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 10:43:27 GMT -5
Post by NCHoya on Jan 21, 2013 10:43:27 GMT -5
I will agree to disagree with Sleepy about Clark , but everything else is right on. Freeman was below average defender but a great offensive player so everyone was willing to ignore it. A gaurd who always shot over 50% is amazing. I thought Clark's defense improved last year, and as someone mentioned he was always given the toughest assignment - and that was back when we played 0% zone. I think Clark was a fine defensive player last year at the top of the zone, it allowed his length to be best put to use.
but back to DSR -
DSR's early trouble this season was just the typical freshman adjustment, it should have been a given. High school ball is no where close to what he was seeing even from the low D1 programs. For me, DSR is the #1 positive story right now for the Hoyas followed by Markel/Nate improvement. He responded to the early criticism by getting better, not all on this team have done that. You can literally see DSR playing better from game to game, and for me, given the direction of this season, that is exciting and something to look forward to watching each game. He also has a penchant for being around the ball, he has a high basketball IQ, I don't care what anyone says. I see him anticipate where the ball is going to be and he is willing to make a play, whether it is a rebound or poking teh ball from behind - he gets it.
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SSHoya
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 10:47:19 GMT -5
Post by SSHoya on Jan 21, 2013 10:47:19 GMT -5
Agree with NC. I see DSR as a four-year player and a team leader in his junior/senior years.
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RDF
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 12:14:14 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jan 21, 2013 12:14:14 GMT -5
DSR will prove to be an exceptional defensive player, far superior to any of the three guys you are comparing him to. To suggest that he won't is to ignore the fact that rebounding is part of a defensive skill-set. When you are comparing players that were all marginal to poor defenders, how the word "exceptional" is thrown out is a bit of a stretch and typical of the low expecations this program is accepting as norm.
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SFHoya99
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 12:34:17 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 21, 2013 12:34:17 GMT -5
This is somewhat cheating because he just had a really nice game, but in conference play DSR has:
* The #2 O Rating of anyone with significant minutes and #3 overall (Bowen, Porter)
* This with the team's 2nd highest usage rate (Porter) and 3rd highest shot rate (Porter, Starks)
* The team's lowest turnover rate (17%) combined with the team's highest assist rate (30), which if kept up (unlikely) would be the highest of the JTIII era.
* The team's second highest Offensive Rebounding % (Ayegba) at 9%.
* The team's fourth highest defensive rebounding rate at 17% (Lubick, Porter, Whittington). It's almost double that of Moses and 6x that of Hopkins.
* He's not great at generating steals and blocks. Got him there.
* He did all this on offense without shooting particularly well from three (23%). This is primarily because he gets to the line at the 3rd best rates per FGA (Trawick, Ayegba) and the highest for a player who actually looks for his own shot a lot.
* His D Rating -- which is not a great defensive stat -- is still second lowest on the team behind Porter at 85.5. No, really. What does this mean? Well, it's partially helped by his defensive rebounding, but it really means mostly that opponents were scoring less when he was on the court. He hasn't hurt us so far.
If Aaron Bowen was doing this, the board would be apoplectic in praise. I don't expect DSR to keep all of this up (the assist rate in particular) but I do expect his shooting to be better overall (maybe not as good as versus USF, but still).
There will be games where more athletic guys block him or he makes freshman mistakes. But he's having a pretty good year. And he does a lot more than shoot.
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DoctorHoya
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 21, 2013 12:39:51 GMT -5
This is somewhat cheating because he just had a really nice game, but in conference play DSR has: * The #2 O Rating of anyone with significant minutes and #3 overall (Bowen, Porter) * This with the team's 2nd highest usage rate (Porter) and 3rd highest shot rate (Porter, Starks) * The team's lowest turnover rate (17%) combined with the team's highest assist rate (30), which if kept up (unlikely) would be the highest of the JTIII era. * The team's second highest Offensive Rebounding % (Ayegba) at 9%. * The team's fourth highest defensive rebounding rate at 17% (Lubick, Porter, Whittington). It's almost double that of Moses and 6x that of Hopkins. * He's not great at generating steals and blocks. Got him there. * He did all this on offense without shooting particularly well from three (23%). This is primarily because he gets to the line at the 3rd best rates per FGA (Trawick, Ayegba) and the highest for a player who actually looks for his own shot a lot. * His D Rating -- which is not a great defensive stat -- is still second lowest on the team behind Porter at 85.5. No, really. What does this mean? Well, it's partially helped by his defensive rebounding, but it really means mostly that opponents were scoring less when he was on the court. He hasn't hurt us so far. If Aaron Bowen was doing this, the board would be apoplectic in praise. I don't expect DSR to keep all of this up (the assist rate in particular) but I do expect his shooting to be better overall (maybe not as good as versus USF, but still). There will be games where more athletic guys block him or he makes freshman mistakes. But he's having a pretty good year. And he does a lot more than shoot. Awesome post
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sleepy
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 19:03:24 GMT -5
Post by sleepy on Jan 21, 2013 19:03:24 GMT -5
DSR will prove to be an exceptional defensive player, far superior to any of the three guys you are comparing him to. To suggest that he won't is to ignore the fact that rebounding is part of a defensive skill-set. Hey, I'm pro DSR and agree he will be far superior to any of the three I'm comparing him too. I think his physical deficincies will hold him back from ever being exceptional on that end, but if he continues to improve the way he already has he than he will definitely exceed expectations.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Jan 21, 2013 21:28:41 GMT -5
Dude has balls.
'Nuff said.
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DSR
Jan 21, 2013 21:29:51 GMT -5
Post by petabdoubleg on Jan 21, 2013 21:29:51 GMT -5
DSR!!!
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