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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 4, 2014 12:53:39 GMT -5
Pretty poor game by Moses I thought. After Mikael fouled out (and Lubick had done so previously) I was kind of hoping to see Hayes come in. I think there was about 4 minutes left and we were up by a fairly comfortable margin, I think 14 or 15. Given how Moses was a complete non-factor in the game, I thought that was a good spot to get Hayes some fairly meaningful minutes. O well.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 4, 2014 14:02:12 GMT -5
Other than on the boards, Moses gave us little last night. I'm not sure "presence" counts.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 4, 2014 14:30:54 GMT -5
The most troubling thing to me is that after our frontcourt fouled out our interior defense fell apart. I realize we were up big and it played that way but we don't want a close game where Cameron is the tallest guy out there. It worked out against Butler but Butler isn't very good.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 4, 2014 14:38:37 GMT -5
The most troubling thing to me is that after our frontcourt fouled out our interior defense fell apart. I realize we were up big and it played that way but we don't want a close game where Cameron is the tallest guy out there. It worked out against Butler but Butler isn't very good. Just curious, 03. Why would you expect anything different given the team we had on the floor?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 4, 2014 16:14:33 GMT -5
Other than on the boards, Moses gave us little last night. I'm not sure "presence" counts. Moses barely gave the team rebounds, he had 5 in 22 minutes of playing time.. He's played 56 minutes the last 3 games but only pulled down 11 boards... He has 1 block in that time also.. It's hard to understand what the coach sees to keep running him out there..
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 4, 2014 22:24:23 GMT -5
The most troubling thing to me is that after our frontcourt fouled out our interior defense fell apart. I realize we were up big and it played that way but we don't want a close game where Cameron is the tallest guy out there. It worked out against Butler but Butler isn't very good. Just curious, 03. Why would you expect anything different given the team we had on the floor? Good point. I suppose I don't expect anything different since we have been bad with fouls all year, but it's really one of the single things we can do to improve our on-court success. We have lost multiple games because we are giving up too many free throws. It's no surprise that when we turned that around against MSU and to a lesser extent against DePaul, that we won. I'm not optimistic it will change (and the frontcourt is where the biggest problem lies), but given the small margin we have to make the NCAA tournament, any improvement would be helpful.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 4, 2014 23:19:20 GMT -5
Other than on the boards, Moses gave us little last night. I'm not sure "presence" counts. Moses barely gave the team rebounds, he had 5 in 22 minutes of playing time.. He's played 56 minutes the last 3 games but only pulled down 11 boards... He has 1 block in that time also.. It's hard to understand what the coach sees to keep running him out there.. Who else are we supposed to put out there, especially when Hop and Nate get into the almost inevitable foul trouble?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 5, 2014 0:13:33 GMT -5
Moses barely gave the team rebounds, he had 5 in 22 minutes of playing time.. He's played 56 minutes the last 3 games but only pulled down 11 boards... He has 1 block in that time also.. It's hard to understand what the coach sees to keep running him out there.. Who else are we supposed to put out there, especially when Hop and Nate get into the almost inevitable foul trouble? No point going down that road again Frazier..
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 5, 2014 7:59:06 GMT -5
Who else are we supposed to put out there, especially when Hop and Nate get into the almost inevitable foul trouble? No point going down that road again Frazier.. Hayes...5 minutes...throw him out there or throw him out.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 5, 2014 8:08:00 GMT -5
No point going down that road again Frazier.. Hayes...5 minutes...throw him out there or throw him out. I said this above. I'm normally not in favor of Hayes playing much, but with 4 minutes left and a 15 point lead, whats the harm in putting him out there after the other two knuckleheads had fouled out?
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Feb 5, 2014 8:15:40 GMT -5
Because at that point we had a double digit lead and DePaul would have intentionally fouled him. We needed ball handlers and foul shooters so we might not have played Nate or Moses at the end even if they had not fouled out.
Also don't just look at Moses', Hopkins', and Lubick's stats. Despite their fouls we out scored DePaul 31-14 over about 15 minutes of the 2nd half, so they were doing something right and there was no need to put Hayes in there.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Feb 5, 2014 8:15:52 GMT -5
Agree that it is time to use Hayes in spots, even if all he can contribute is clogging the middle. As for the season as a whole, it really comes down to some combination of recruiting misses and failure of players to develop at the post position. It is an unfortunate position to be in for a program storied for its development of big men.
Moses has not developed/been developed as hoped. Whose fault? Who cares! The problem now is finding a way to mix and match 3 flawed players to get through a game without having to resort to using a 6'7" center. In my opinion the biggest mistake JT III made with respect to the center position is sitting on the end of the bench in street clothes having failed to fulfill his academic requirements. I would rather see Moses, Hopkins, Hayes and Lubick out there trying too hard and committing fouls and mistakes than a much more talented kid at the end of the bench who never tried hard enough.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Feb 5, 2014 9:45:40 GMT -5
Everyone has seen Bradley Hayes play and the world did not come to an end...the team even won the game. 3 to 5 mins. per game will not hurt anything and will give Hayes valuable experience for next year.
How much better is Moses Ayegba over Bradley Hayes?
Can't Bradley Hayes provide the same presence as Moses?
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 5, 2014 10:05:53 GMT -5
Because at that point we had a double digit lead and DePaul would have intentionally fouled him. We needed ball handlers and foul shooters so we might not have played Nate or Moses at the end even if they had not fouled out. Also don't just look at Moses', Hopkins', and Lubick's stats. Despite their fouls we out scored DePaul 31-14 over about 15 minutes of the 2nd half, so they were doing something right and there was no need to put Hayes in there. Moses had not yet fouled out. Lubick had fouled out, and upon Hop fouling out, he put Moses back in the game. What for? Because Moses is an automatic FT shooter? Because he had been so good all game? I don't even care about this season in particular. If the chips fall against us next year, Hayes will be forced to play. I thought this was a spot to get him some reasonably low leverage minutes against a BE opponent. Once Moses fouled out too, fine put Cameron in and make your FTs. But if you're gonna put in Moses in that spot, why not Hayes? That's all I'm saying.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 5, 2014 10:08:23 GMT -5
Everyone has seen Bradley Hayes play and the world did not come to an end...the team even won the game. 3 to 5 mins. per game will not hurt anything and will give Hayes valuable experience for next year. How much better is Moses Ayegba over Bradley Hayes? Can't Bradley Hayes provide the same presence as Moses? O here we go...
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Feb 5, 2014 10:24:21 GMT -5
Everyone has seen Bradley Hayes play and the world did not come to an end...the team even won the game. 3 to 5 mins. per game will not hurt anything and will give Hayes valuable experience for next year. How much better is Moses Ayegba over Bradley Hayes? Can't Bradley Hayes provide the same presence as Moses? You play one or the other, but not both. Moses is ahead of Hayes. One back-up playing 15 minutes is better than one playing 10 and another playing 5 because you need team chemistry/familiarity to play effective team defense.
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Feb 5, 2014 10:32:24 GMT -5
The reason you just do not play a guy for 3 to 5 minutes is because at the end of a game when it is a one possession game, those 3 to 5 minutes may come back to bite you. I have no problem with not playing Domingo or Hayes until they have proven that they deserve minutes.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 5, 2014 10:44:33 GMT -5
Everyone has seen Bradley Hayes play and the world did not come to an end...the team even won the game. 3 to 5 mins. per game will not hurt anything and will give Hayes valuable experience for next year. How much better is Moses Ayegba over Bradley Hayes? Can't Bradley Hayes provide the same presence as Moses?
Yes, over the past couple years, by watching Moses and Hayes every day in practice, JTIII has learned that these two players provide the same presence; and yet, he has chosen to disregard everything he as seen over these two years, and has decided to keep Hayes on the bench. Why, you might ask? Ahh, let me tell you. It is because JTIII is actually a Syracuse mole, planted to destroy the Hoya program. He hates GU, and has decided that the best way to destroy the program is by sitting Hayes. Evil frickin' genius, that JTIII.
Now, I have another theory, Mr. This Just In... Would you, by chance, be in on this conspiracy? Are you not yet another mole, planted on this board to single-handedly destroy it by your inanity? The time is now. STAND UP AND CONFESS!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 5, 2014 11:04:16 GMT -5
The reason you just do not play a guy for 3 to 5 minutes is because at the end of a game when it is a one possession game, those 3 to 5 minutes may come back to bite you. I have no problem with not playing Domingo or Hayes until they have proven that they deserve minutes. There it is. Period. For all of his limitations, Moses is better than Hayes. This team needs every point, every assist, every rebound it can get. So yes, "running Moses out there" as our backup center is the move to make. He doesn't always play well, or even adequately, but we absolutely cannot afford to experiment with Hayes. If and when Hayes shows enough in practice to gain JTIII's confidence he will get his chance. Until then it just ain't happening. Move on.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 5, 2014 12:25:45 GMT -5
The reason you just do not play a guy for 3 to 5 minutes is because at the end of a game when it is a one possession game, those 3 to 5 minutes may come back to bite you. I have no problem with not playing Domingo or Hayes until they have proven that they deserve minutes. This makes sense because there's no way possible the player could do anything positive in his 3-5 minutes of game time to help the team.. Folks should stop lumping Domingo & Hayes together, they're separate cases.. JT3 gambled with some games to give Domingo plenty of 3-5 minute chances(9 to be exact) to prove himself worthy of additional playing time and he hasn't done that.. Add in the fact that the team has players ahead of him who produce on a consistent, it's easy to understand why he doesn't play very much.. Hayes on the other hand has only had one real chance to play meaningful minutes on a team that desperately needs help at the center spot now and in the future. I have no idea how well Moses does in practice but in games he's consistently below avg at best and imo the staff should explore every option to see if the team can get better.. This has nothing to do with practice.. It's simply a coach going with the familiar, regardless of how unproductive or bad over the unknown.. Look at the Depaul situation, both Jaimee Crocket & Charles Mckinney were playing over RJ Currington. They stated on the broadcast Monday that Currington had many dnp's this year prior to their game against Seton Hall. Crocket was suspended, Mckinney was hurt so Purnell gives Currington a shot to play.. The kid has scored 15, 22 & 10 in the 3 games, more than Crockett or Mckinney ever did this year.. This shows as much as anything practice isn't the end all be all, how well you play in games does count.. Yeah, yeah I know Purnell is a horrible coach and Depaul stinks so it's a horrible comparison..
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