|
Post by professorhoya on Sept 1, 2014 14:08:43 GMT -5
It's scary how our moment in recruiting has stalled. It used to be maybe even a month ago I see a new post in recruiting and I get excited thinking what good news could have been posted. Now I get nervous every time I see a post here wondering what new bad news has come down the pipe. Maybe it's just me, but the mood certainly has switched for me. The problem was more people on here getting unrealistic expectations. Rather than being content with Dickerson and Dickinson and Govan, people started expecting to get this superteam with those guys plus Trier and Rabb, etc. It was just setting oneself up for failure and disappointment. Even when Noah decommited people were still like "Oh we don't need him" we have Rabb locked up. Rabb is an unrealistic expectation for any team. Even for a Kentucky or Duke they would only have about a 30% chance at getting him at best. You cannot afford to be overconfident on landing these guys because even #DoneDeals fall apart (Nerlen Noel and Shaka Smart).
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 1, 2014 14:48:54 GMT -5
It's scary how our moment in recruiting has stalled. It used to be maybe even a month ago I see a new post in recruiting and I get excited thinking what good news could have been posted. Now I get nervous every time I see a post here wondering what new bad news has come down the pipe. Maybe it's just me, but the mood certainly has switched for me. The problem was more people on here getting unrealistic expectations. Rather than being content with Dickerson and Dickinson and Govan, people started expecting to get this superteam with those guys plus Trier and Rabb, etc. It was just setting oneself up for failure and disappointment. Even when Noah decommited people were still like "Oh we don't need him" we have Rabb locked up. Rabb is an unrealistic expectation for any team. Even for a Kentucky or Duke they would only have about a 30% chance at getting him at best. You cannot afford to be overconfident on landing these guys because even #DoneDeals fall apart (Nerlen Noel and Shaka Smart). At this point it's seeming unlikely we will land any of the 11! guards we were on this summer. That's really not good. Dwayne Bacon - Final 10 Bryant Crawford - Final 7 Haanif Cheatham - Final 4 PJ Dozier - Final 5 Joshua Reaves- Penn St Allonzo Trier - Arizona Tyler Dorsey - dropped us from his list Kenny Williams - VCU Jalen Coleman - dropped us from his list Terance Mann - FSU ( after we backed off) Donovan Mitchell- Lousiville
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,899
|
Post by EtomicB on Sept 1, 2014 15:10:46 GMT -5
The problem was more people on here getting unrealistic expectations. Rather than being content with Dickerson and Dickinson and Govan, people started expecting to get this superteam with those guys plus Trier and Rabb, etc. It was just setting oneself up for failure and disappointment. Even when Noah decommited people were still like "Oh we don't need him" we have Rabb locked up. Rabb is an unrealistic expectation for any team. Even for a Kentucky or Duke they would only have about a 30% chance at getting him at best. You cannot afford to be overconfident on landing these guys because even #DoneDeals fall apart (Nerlen Noel and Shaka Smart). At this point it's seeming unlikely we will land any of the 11! guards we were on this summer. That's really not good. Dwayne Bacon - Final 10 Bryant Crawford - Final 7 Haanif Cheatham - Final 4 PJ Dozier - Final 5 Joshua Reaves- Penn St Allonzo Trier - Arizona Tyler Dorsey - dropped us from his list Kenny Williams - VCU Jalen Coleman - dropped us from his list Terance Mann - FSU ( after we backed off) would love to know what really happened here Donovan Mitchell- Lousiville This ^^ The stalled recruiting is not due to Rabb, Dorsey or Trier imo, it's due to Dickerson de-committing or Kenny Williams choosing VCU.. It's due to the fact it doesn't look like Cheatham will choose G'town and it's not anywhere near a lock that Crawford will commit.. It wasn't unrealistic to think the staff would have landed a solid guard by now considering the talent the program has in the front-court..
|
|
|
Post by daymondmyles on Sept 1, 2014 16:04:33 GMT -5
Disappointment and fear are understandable but we have both Dozier and Crawford giving us visits so all is not lost yet.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 2, 2014 10:33:37 GMT -5
Trawick and Sapp were not 100 players based by the rankings. Campbell is also not a top 100 player based on recruiting rankings. Sapp was #69 on Rivals. Trawick and Campbell were fringe depending on the recruiting service. The point holds.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 2, 2014 10:39:36 GMT -5
Trawick and Sapp were not 100 players based by the rankings. Campbell is also not a top 100 player based on recruiting rankings. Sapp was #69 on Rivals. Trawick and Campbell were fringe depending on the recruiting service. The point holds. Being top 100 on one site doesn't make you a top 100 player. On the composite rankings they were not top 100.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 2, 2014 11:24:43 GMT -5
HSB - that's kind of a nit pick. #69 is Top 100 according to one of the few valid recruiting sites from the mid-2000s. Jabril and Campbell were well covered and fringe Top 75.
But that diverts attention from the main point, which is that overall JT3 has been a pretty solid recruiter, and has brought in some good guards. Bringing in nationally recognized talent and uncovering hidden gems has not been a primary or even secondary reason for our lack of post-season success the last few years.
I feel we've had the base roster talent to be Sweet 16 competitive most years. Other factors have played a more important role in our lack of post-season success, e.g., injuries, defections, eligibility, chemistry, style, strategy.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Sept 2, 2014 11:37:53 GMT -5
Also: choking, inexplicably horrible play against Lower Ohio and Florida Scuba Academy type-schools, etc. You could recruit the best players in the world, but if they let the tent fall in, you will suffocate. Thus, I hope that we recruit some mean mamma-jammas who would just about rather die than fall on their sword in the NCAAs, and have enough talent to back that up. We have had too many nice guys on the roster over the past few years.
|
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Sept 2, 2014 11:55:51 GMT -5
HSB - that's kind of a nit pick. #69 is Top 100 according to one of the few valid recruiting sites from the mid-2000s. Jabril and Campbell were well covered and fringe Top 75. Talk about reaching
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,743
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 2, 2014 13:21:43 GMT -5
1. No, being ranked by one recruiting service shouldn't be considered Top 100. Because then there would be about 180 Top 100 guys and that's not quite right, is it?
2. More relevantly, we've actually recruited guards decently well since Austin and Chris came on board, and we've struggled to have a strong frontcourt more often than we've struggled with a weak backcourt. Still, that doesn't mean we should not worry about guards going forward because...
3. ...In the 2013-2015 classes, we have only 2 guards and 7 players in the frontcourt (not counting Josh). That's a little off the ratio you'd want, even if you are counting the 2:3 ratio you have on the floor.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 2, 2014 13:52:29 GMT -5
1. Again, I disagree. I will not agree that Rivals #69 is any less or more reliable than other legitimate recruiting services. Top 100 can be more than 100 if there is not consensus on the 100. That does sound right to me.
2. Thank you and as expressed previously, I agree with this.
3. Class of 2015 is not complete yet. JTIII is a very solid recruiter and he will be fill out the 2015 class with a good guard or two, I am sure.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,743
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 2, 2014 15:49:42 GMT -5
1. Again, I disagree. I will not agree that Rivals #69 is any less or more reliable than other legitimate recruiting services. Top 100 can be more than 100 if there is not consensus on the 100. That does sound right to me. 2. Thank you and as expressed previously, I agree with this. 3. Class of 2015 is not complete yet. JTIII is a very solid recruiter and he will be fill out the 2015 class with a good guard or two, I am sure. You can call it whatever you like. But if you define Top 100 by "being in anyone's top 100" then it naturally means less than a strictly defined "Consensus Top 100." And the latter actually has the added bonus of being true to the concept of Top 100, which heavily implies that there's only 100 of 'em.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 2, 2014 15:58:46 GMT -5
I missed the memo that a Rivals #69 player is not a Top 100 player anymore. My bad.
|
|
|
Post by bicentennial on Sept 2, 2014 16:07:49 GMT -5
I have to wonder if some of the players we are considering as forwards might not play a swing 2 guard/3 forward position. If the players have adequate handle I would love to see a 6'7" player at two guard defending a player 5 inches shorter on the other team!
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,899
|
Post by EtomicB on Sept 2, 2014 16:40:20 GMT -5
I missed the memo that a Rivals #69 player is not a Top 100 player anymore. My bad. I agree with Hoyasincebirth & SF Ranch, composites are the only way to look at it.. Here's the VC page for both Jabril & Tre.. Jabril was # 80 by ESPN but not ranked by Rivals or Scout.. Tre was # 88 by Scout, 126 by Rivals & not ranked by ESPN.. I'd keep both without hesitation but they're not top 100 HS players for their classes.. verbalcommits.com/players/jabril-trawickverbalcommits.com/players/tre-campbell
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 2, 2014 17:11:11 GMT -5
Clearly, composites are not the only way to look at it because I, for one, don't look at it only that way.
Another way to look at it is that Sapp was #69 in one valid recruiting service, Jabril was #80 in one valid recruiting service, and Tre was #88 in one valid recruiting service, which would make them all Top 100 players according to various recruiting services.
The larger point is that JTIII is a very solid recruiter, has brought in solid guards, and my belief is unchanged that our lack of post-season success is not a result of poor recruiting at the guard position, which was the original attack I am refuting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 18:36:07 GMT -5
I had Sapp as the #5 player in the class. He was a top 5 recruit.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,209
|
Post by hoyarooter on Sept 2, 2014 20:00:46 GMT -5
I had Sapp as the #5 player in the class. He was a top 5 recruit. Hilarious. This argument is beating a dead horse so badly as to render the poor creature unrecognizable, and a total waste of space.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Sept 2, 2014 20:47:31 GMT -5
Clearly, composites are not the only way to look at it because I, for one, don't look at it only that way. Another way to look at it is that Sapp was #69 in one valid recruiting service, Jabril was #80 in one valid recruiting service, and Tre was #88 in one valid recruiting service, which would make them all Top 100 players according to various recruiting services. The larger point is that JTIII is a very solid recruiter, has brought in solid guards, and my belief is unchanged that our lack of post-season success is not a result of poor recruiting at the guard position, which was the original attack I am refuting. I never stated that we had recruited poor talent at the guard position. My concern was more about lack of depth and experience at the position since the graduation of Wright and Freeman. Since that time we have brought 3 guards into the program two with experience, one a freshman and a senior who will use up eligibility. DSR and Trawick are very solid college backcourt i have no idea what kind of contribution Campbell will bring this year or in the future but i know given the talent level we have brought in this year and next it would be a major failure if end up with a backcourt that has to back off from pressure because of depth or relies upon walkons to steal more than just a few minutes.
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,908
|
Post by Filo on Sept 2, 2014 22:23:06 GMT -5
I had Sapp as the #5 player in the class. He was a top 5 recruit. Hilarious. This argument is beating a dead horse so badly as to render the poor creature unrecognizable, and a total waste of space. Yes, that was funny. The poor creature is glue now, though.
|
|