IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by IDenj on Apr 26, 2012 14:05:45 GMT -5
The best way to get rid of the Princeton stigma is to get rid of the Princeton system.
It doesn't draw enough quality recruits, and it doesn't win in the NCAA. So why do we continue with it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 14:42:05 GMT -5
ENJ-I can't tell you how much I disagree with you. We have a great program and our graduates have over achieved in the NBA. We have been squeaky clean. You want to be like Connecticut, Syracuse, Kentucky, Baylor, etc who get the 5 star recruits?? Well I don't. We have a poor practice facility, no fieldhouse of our own, and an Ivy League atmosphere which will put off many of the recruits who are thinking of one or two and done. With all of those factors working against us, it is unlikely that we will get the 5 star caliber athletes. Furthermore, I don't believe that the Princeton system has any major effect on the recruits. If it were, why do you think Noel and Pollard wasted their time visiting us??
Jerry
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 26, 2012 14:53:30 GMT -5
ENJ-I can't tell you how much I disagree with you. We have a great program and our graduates have over achieved in the NBA. We have been squeaky clean. You want to be like Connecticut, Syracuse, Kentucky, Baylor, etc who get the 5 star recruits?? Well I don't. We have a poor practice facility, no fieldhouse of our own, and an Ivy League atmosphere which will put off many of the recruits who are thinking of one or two and done. With all of those factors working against us, it is unlikely that we will get the 5 star caliber athletes. Furthermore, I don't believe that the Princeton system has any major effect on the recruits. If it were, why do you think Noel and Pollard wasted their time visiting us?? Jerry That's the thing. Those calling for scrapping of the system which essentially means getting rid of JTIII don't know what they are talking about. You cut off the Thompsons, which effectively would also cut you off from access to all the Georgetown alumni bigmen and then you are just left with a small school with no practice facility that nobody would want to come to. It would be over and no good coach in their right mind would want to come here. Be careful what you wish for.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Apr 26, 2012 15:01:24 GMT -5
But Why can't III adjust? You don't have to entirely scrap everything, but what's the harm in pushing the ball and giving more offensive freedom?
While the facilities are a draw back in the big picture, a lot of recruits like the idea of playing in Verizon. They also love DC, like the staff, the academics, the campus and mostly everything that Georgetown has to offer. The 'But...' is 90% of the time related to the offense. Whether it's the perception or the reality, it is a major hurdle for this program.
I also think another hurdle is having 1 assistant capable of winning a hotly contested recruiting battle, but that's another topic.
Want III here, but also would like some more changes. Got some the past year that were beneficial (roster getting back to what works) but need to keep making progress.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 26, 2012 15:07:59 GMT -5
yep, it's the offseason on hoyatalk. hooray...
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 26, 2012 15:14:38 GMT -5
The best way to get rid of the Princeton stigma is to get rid of the Princeton system. It doesn't draw enough quality recruits, and it doesn't win in the NCAA. So why do we continue with it? There you go again.
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Post by pr20 on Apr 26, 2012 15:14:49 GMT -5
This team scored a lot of points two years ago. They ran a lot. They were one of the top teams in scoring. The offense is not the issue. The marketing and perception is. Hollis turned out to be a good player at Gtown. But he would not have flourished any mor or been any better had he gone to UCLA. Same with Chris and Austin. They ahd great careers but where undersized to be sure fire NBA players. IF you put more sure fire NBA talent on the court, the offense won't look as constricted because talented guys make more talented plays. I see the point that many of you are saying about the look of the offense. I just think that the right players will make that whole stigma go away. Wing forwards are the most coveted position in college bsaketball right now. Hoyas need a few.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 26, 2012 15:16:03 GMT -5
But Why can't III adjust? You don't have to entirely scrap everything, but what's the harm in pushing the ball and giving more offensive freedom? While the facilities are a draw back in the big picture, a lot of recruits like the idea of playing in Verizon. They also love DC, like the staff, the academics, the campus and mostly everything that Georgetown has to offer. The 'But...' is 90% of the time related to the offense. Whether it's the perception or the reality, it is a major hurdle for this program. I also think another hurdle is having 1 assistant capable of winning a hotly contested recruiting battle, but that's another topic. Want III here, but also would like some more changes. Got some the past year that were beneficial (roster getting back to what works) but need to keep making progress. The system is JTIII's area of expertise. He's tweaked the system over the years to accomodate the personnel (Chris Wright offensive freedom style) so he's done what you are wishing for already. As far as the Princeton, it was only a couple years ago that people were raving that it was the Princeton offense on steroids. And recruits like Monroe, Wright, Freeman were dying to come here. So the system is not the problem. Winning is IMO. We've had a couple bad breaks (the incident, Austin's diabtes, Chris Wright's injury) but this year we won in the first round so that' something to build on.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 26, 2012 15:24:15 GMT -5
If a win over Belmont is something to build on, we have a LOOONG way to go! Of course it is much better than a loss to Belmont. Or VCU. Or Ohio.
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by deacon on Apr 26, 2012 15:26:35 GMT -5
I also think another hurdle is having 1 assistant capable of winning a hotly contested recruiting battle, but that's another topic. !!!!!!
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 26, 2012 15:29:30 GMT -5
If a win over Belmont is something to build on, we have a LOOONG way to go! Of course it is much better than a loss to Belmont. Or VCU. Or Ohio. Well you can't get greedy. I said it would be a successful season this year if we made the tournament. If we made it out of the first round it would be a very successful season considering the expectations before the season and past history. There were some on here who were saying this would be a surefire sweet 16 or elite 8 team in January. That's getting greedy and setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Post by prospect on Apr 26, 2012 20:31:05 GMT -5
Honestly this isn't an issue with the offense. This is a March issue. When the Hoyas got to the Sweet 16 then Final 4 they signed 5 top 50 guys in two years (Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Sims and Clark).
The Hoyas haven't proven they can win in March since and that is important to recruits. Even Hollis Thompson mentioned that in his exit "interview" with The Hoya. He liked that the Hoyas got to the Final 4.
When G'town goes deep they'll have more ammunition to recruit. The reason UNC, Duke, Kansas, etc recruit well consistently (key word) is b/c they can point to recent success (ie national championships!).
I know a lot of people think Nerlens chose UK for the wrong or "unpure" reasons. But he wants to win and even though they have a different team next year he believes Coach Cal can get him there. The formula of reloading has proven to work. If Cal doesn't get past the 1st weekend for FIVE straight years he will not get the Noels of the world.
Winning cures all.
Now let's get Devonta and do some winning!
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by IDenj on Apr 26, 2012 20:51:03 GMT -5
To Enj: Please explain this--If the Princeton system is such a problem, why were we in the top 3 by Noel and top 4 with Pollard. They both visited. Why in the world would they do this if they had a problem with our offense. They would have eliminated us from the beginning if they had a problem with the Princeton offense. Coming second in the recruiting world doesn't win you games in March. I don't care what system we use... I want to see this program win in the tourney. We aren't getting these kids, and we aren't winning when it matters. Those aspects are defining for a program.
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Apr 26, 2012 22:53:21 GMT -5
ENJ-I can't tell you how much I disagree with you. We have a great program and our graduates have over achieved in the NBA. We have been squeaky clean. You want to be like Connecticut, Syracuse, Kentucky, Baylor, etc who get the 5 star recruits?? Well I don't. We have a poor practice facility, no fieldhouse of our own, and an Ivy League atmosphere which will put off many of the recruits who are thinking of one or two and done. With all of those factors working against us, it is unlikely that we will get the 5 star caliber athletes. Furthermore, I don't believe that the Princeton system has any major effect on the recruits. If it were, why do you think Noel and Pollard wasted their time visiting us?? Jerry I want our program to get high end talent. They are the ones that lead a team deep into MM. Mid level talent gets you knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round. sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--former-5-star-recruits-that-havent-lived-up-to-billing.html;_ylt=AiCvBwhb_Il3LKK1Ywh7zELevbYFCheckmate
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Apr 26, 2012 23:23:17 GMT -5
The only player on the list provided who wasn't recruited hard by Georgetown was Adrien Payne. Otherwise--that's a scary list to comprehend for Hoya fans and shows you how badly a new direction needed to take place.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Apr 27, 2012 0:41:15 GMT -5
There you go again. Hate being right again. Losing out early again in the tourney, missing out on numerous high level recruits, and now reading RDF's comments about the attitude towards our style of play by young kids, makes you wonder how much longer people will keep drinking the kool aid. Accept we are a mid level program. If by mid-level you mean, "not Kentucky or UNC" then sure. But we are regularly up among the top 20 teams in the nation. That's not a bad place to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 6:33:19 GMT -5
To Enj: Please explain this--If the Princeton system is such a problem, why were we in the top 3 by Noel and top 4 with Pollard. They both visited. Why in the world would they do this if they had a problem with our offense. They would have eliminated us from the beginning if they had a problem with the Princeton offense. Coming second in the recruiting world doesn't win you games in March. I don't care what system we use... I want to see this program win in the tourney. We aren't getting these kids, and we aren't winning when it matters. Those aspects are defining for a program. I agree with you that our poor showing in the NCAA's have hurt us. I just don't think it is the Princeton Offense.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Apr 27, 2012 8:50:45 GMT -5
Hate being right again. Losing out early again in the tourney, missing out on numerous high level recruits, and now reading RDF's comments about the attitude towards our style of play by young kids, makes you wonder how much longer people will keep drinking the kool aid. Accept we are a mid level program. If by mid-level you mean, "not Kentucky or UNC" then sure. But we are regularly up among the top 20 teams in the nation. That's not a bad place to be. Top 20 in January. Great. Its like saying you led the Boston Marathon at mile 3.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by IDenj on Apr 27, 2012 8:54:03 GMT -5
Coming second in the recruiting world doesn't win you games in March. I don't care what system we use... I want to see this program win in the tourney. We aren't getting these kids, and we aren't winning when it matters. Those aspects are defining for a program. I agree with you that our poor showing in the NCAA's have hurt us. I just don't think it is the Princeton Offense. Ok, so it is not the offense. Is it the players? If so, that is on the staff for not finding the right players or developing them. If it is recruiting, well then that again falls on the staff for not getting the most out of what they are doing. Somewhere along the line something has broken down. Trying harder is not the answer; we have been hearing how the staff are really, really bustin it on the trail every spring for the last 4 years. Same results.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Apr 27, 2012 8:54:54 GMT -5
If by mid-level you mean, "not Kentucky or UNC" then sure. But we are regularly up among the top 20 teams in the nation. That's not a bad place to be. Top 20 in January. Great. Its like saying you led the Boston Marathon at mile 3. Top 20 in April too when the last rankings of the season come out. We were 17 this season.
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