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Post by Deez Scruggs on Feb 28, 2012 0:54:41 GMT -5
What if Nd lose and cinch and USC lose a game each OK. I assume you are asking about this scenario if we lose to Marquette. If we beat them it hardly matters. If ND loses to Providence, and both USF and Cincy go 1-1, there is a 3-way tie at 12-6: Hoyas, ND, and USF. Cincy is only 11-7. This tie is resolved by a miniconference, which we win since we have beaten both other teams. That makes us the 3 seed. So in other words, losing to Marquette doesn't prevent us from finishing 3rd. Louisville could also be in this mix, but have to beat Syracuse on the road to do so. Even if they do, we still win the 4-team miniconference convincingly since we have beaten all three teams. For all the rightful gnashing of teeth over the Cincy loss, ending the year 4-2 or 5-1 vs. your closest opponents is damn good, and really helps for BET seeding. thanks for this. one minor correction: ND plays Prov on Friday night 3/2. Thanks, fixed.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 28, 2012 8:06:39 GMT -5
BEAT MARQUETTE TO GET SEEDING and to be the HOT TEAM GOING INTO THE GARDEN AND THE NCAA YUP a few coaches have said our defense is the BEST THEY'VE SEEN ALL YEAR.. we outdefended even cuse imo GO HOYAS KEEP IT ROLNG NOW... ITS GONNA BE march ...THATS MARCH MADNESS ...what a nite for seniors last nite....wowowowowwooowowoowowow yes
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Feb 28, 2012 10:56:36 GMT -5
What if Nd lose and cinch and USC lose a game each OK. I assume you are asking about this scenario if we lose to Marquette. If we beat them it hardly matters. If ND loses to Providence, and both USF and Cincy go 1-1, there is a 3-way tie at 12-6: Hoyas, ND, and USF. Cincy is only 11-7. This tie is resolved by a miniconference, which we win since we have beaten both other teams. That makes us the 3 seed. So in other words, losing to Marquette doesn't prevent us from finishing 3rd. Louisville could also be in this mix, but have to beat Syracuse on the road to do so. Even if they do, we still win the 4-team miniconference convincingly since we have beaten all three teams. For all the rightful gnashing of teeth over the Cincy loss, ending the year 4-2 or 5-1 vs. your closest opponents is damn good, and really helps for BET seeding. thanks for this. one minor correction: ND plays Prov on Friday night 3/2. Thanks, fixed. Thanks for figuring out all of these. I have another for you - what happens if we lose to Marquette, Cincinnati wins out, Notre Dame beats Providence, but USF goes 1-1. That leaves us in the 3 way tie with Cincinatti and South Florida, with each of us at 1-1 in the "mini-conference". We've all lost to cuse and we would all be 1-1 against Marquette (USF would be 0-1). Would it then go to record against Notre Dame?
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 28, 2012 11:07:54 GMT -5
I think we actually lose that one because Cinci beat SH, and we lost. I think it goes all the way down to them. We both beat ND, we both beat Lville, we both lost to WVU, and we are 1-0 vs UConn and they are 1-1. I think that doesnt count, but I am not sure. I think SH will finish ahead of UConn and WVU anyway.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 28, 2012 11:27:45 GMT -5
Am I wrong here? This is looking more and more that a likely scenario -- if we win on Saturday -- will involve playing the same team three times in one season, with a slot in the BET championship as the prize for the third match. You know, just a Maalox thought in case everyone was starting to feel a little too good after last night. (close as I could come to a puke smiley)
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 28, 2012 11:58:54 GMT -5
This is looking more and more that a likely scenario -- if we win on Saturday -- will involve playing beating the same team three times in one season, with a slot in the BET championship as the prize for the third match. Fixed that for you. Which makes it all the more ulcer-inducing.
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Post by Deez Scruggs on Feb 28, 2012 13:00:23 GMT -5
Thanks for figuring out all of these. I have another for you - what happens if we lose to Marquette, Cincinnati wins out, Notre Dame beats Providence, but USF goes 1-1. That leaves us in the 3 way tie with Cincinatti and South Florida, with each of us at 1-1 in the "mini-conference". We've all lost to cuse and we would all be 1-1 against Marquette (USF would be 0-1). Would it then go to record against Notre Dame? If ND beats Providence, they are guaranteed a double bye. Therefore only one remains available. Hoyas, Cincy, and USF are tied for 4th at 12-6. It's clear that ties between 3 or more teams are resolved by a miniconference. But all three are tied at 1-1 in that miniconference, as hoyanyr points out. The next tiebreaker is: If one team in the miniconference has a better record than the others, it takes the top spot up for grabs - that's clear. But what's not clear is what happens if one (or more) teams have a worse record than the others. Are they eliminated? If so, GUJook is right. USF gets eliminated early because they lost to ND. You go down the list until you get to Seton Hall. Then Cincy takes it because they beat SH. (I think UConn finishes over SH, but that doesn't change anything.) But I'm not sure that interpretation of the rule is right. You are supposed to "continue through the standings until one team gains an advantage." To me, this means you keep comparing until you have a winner, without eliminating anyone. If that's right, I've gone all the way through the list down to Rutgers, most likely in 12th, without clearly resolving it - though USF could take 4th outright by beating West Virginia, since WV beat both us and Cincy. Anyone know the precedent here? Also, Louisville could get into this miniconference if they go 2-0 (requires beating 'Cuse on the road). But that breaks up the tie in the miniconference. Hoyas and Cincy are 2-1, USF and Louisville 1-2. We then lose the H2H tiebreaker for 4th with Cincy.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 28, 2012 13:56:31 GMT -5
If Cincy (Marq) and USF (Ville) lose, we're (pretty much) guaranteed a double bye.
On the other hand, if Marquette wins, we can't possibly get the #2. I figure I am rooting for the Ville and will look at the bright side either way with the Marquette game.
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Post by bicentennial on Feb 28, 2012 14:57:44 GMT -5
Most years I would hope Marquette beats Cinci since then we should be guaranteed the double bye if we beat Marquette but this year I want Cinci to beat Quette since I am confident we will beat Quette in their house and then we would be the two seed for the BE tournament!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 28, 2012 20:47:02 GMT -5
Most years I would hope Marquette beats Cinci since then we should be guaranteed the double bye if we beat Marquette but this year I want Cinci to beat Quette since I am confident we will beat Quette in their house and then we would be the two seed for the BE tournament! finally someone agrees with me.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 29, 2012 9:22:18 GMT -5
Currently (as of 2/29/12) #3 seed, playing Thurs at 9PM.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 29, 2012 11:37:11 GMT -5
Most years I would hope Marquette beats Cinci since then we should be guaranteed the double bye if we beat Marquette but this year I want Cinci to beat Quette since I am confident we will beat Quette in their house and then we would be the two seed for the BE tournament! finally someone agrees with me. That's just silly. As Deez noted above, that might be yet another scenario that we would lose out by virtue of Cinci winning out. No good can come of Cincinnati winning tonight. Even if we win against Marquette on Saturday in that scenario, we only get the 2nd seed by virtue of tying with them and winning the head to head tiebreaker. "Yay! We're number 2! We tied with Marquette and won the tiebreaker! We're number 2!"
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 29, 2012 11:50:21 GMT -5
bottom line HOPE CINNCY LOSES OK nuf said
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 29, 2012 11:51:49 GMT -5
difference between #2 and #3 is minimal, isn't it? Rather have Cinci lose tonight and get that out of the way.
The idea of USF/UC/Louisville all going 1-1 in their final two games is still what I hope for and having USF as the 5 seed if we somehow have to be the 4 sounds really good to me.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 29, 2012 11:57:17 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the argument, so perhaps, "silly" is going too far. I guess I am just one of the people who think the double-bye is somewhat important, and a pretty big accomplishment, for our post-season seeding. If we finish in 3rd place in the BE, as others mentioned above, it's very unlikely our seeding will be hurt regardless of what happens next week.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Feb 29, 2012 11:57:38 GMT -5
difference between #2 and #3 is minimal, isn't it? Rather have Cinci lose tonight and get that out of the way. Yeah especially since we don't have any clue where the 5-7 seeds will fall so its not like we are gaming for better matchups in the quarterfinals.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 29, 2012 11:59:34 GMT -5
Go MU!!! Nuff said!
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Feb 29, 2012 12:05:37 GMT -5
I predict we will be the 4 seed and will play one of Pitt, Rutgers, or South Florida.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 29, 2012 12:51:54 GMT -5
I calculated all the possibilities for an article over on Casual Hoya: www.casualhoya.com/2012/2/29/2831684/tonights-viewing-guide-double-bye-implications-on-the-lineAssuming we lose to Marquette since if we beat them we are at worst the 3 seed: There are 20 different scenarios that could play out. In those 20 scenarios the Hoyas get the Double Bye in 13 of them. There are 4 scenarios in which Cinci wins out and the Hoyas still get the double bye. There is 1 scenario in which Cinci loses 1 game that we do not get the double bye. So there are 9 scenarios where Cinci loses at least 1 game and we get the double bye. of course it doesn't matter if they lose to marquette or villanova. They could easily lose to Villanova on nova's senior night. I get the point that Cinci losing a game all but guarantees a double bye but there are 3 other ways to achieve the same thing: beat Marquette, ND loses to providence and usf drops 1 game, or we are tied with the right combination of teams in addition to Cincinnati. And again cinci just has to lose 1 game it doesn't matter if it's marquette or villanova.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 29, 2012 13:38:15 GMT -5
HSB, I'm curious, what's the scenario where Cincy loses a game but we still don't get a double bye? I thought we won every possible tiebreak involving USF and Louisville.
Also, I wouldn't hold my breath for Notre Dame to lose at home to Providence.
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