SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 27, 2012 13:39:22 GMT -5
Sorry. It's just true. There's a reason that, despite the adage that defense wins championships, teams with better Os then Ds do better in the toruney that similarly biased teams towards defense.
Eventually a game like Seton Hall comes along and you've got to be able to score with a team on fire. I just don't see us holding ND to 40. I could be wrong, but they had that terrible game Saturday. We're not that lucky.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 27, 2012 13:43:19 GMT -5
Not that we need any extra motivation, but If the Hoyas win it will be JT3's 250th career win.
Something that is crazy to me is that Scott Martin at 6'8" started at the 2G for ND last year and this year he's the PF. Last year's ND team was really tall. This year they're much more normal. And assuming the same starting line up from Saturday we'll have a 6'8" 2G in Hollis who used to play PF.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,245
|
Post by hoyarooter on Feb 27, 2012 13:46:03 GMT -5
Press them ALL game. Wear down Atkins--ND lacks ball handlers and you can wear him down. ND is a poor defensive team too--and you can get some transition hoops on them. Just like Nova though--pressure defense really throws them off and changes tempo into more favorable matchup for Georgetown. This. Lots of pressure, please.
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Feb 27, 2012 14:17:04 GMT -5
The problem with pressuring ND is that they are good at finding spaces for 3s. I dont think we will play much pressure today. As much as they struggled from 3 against SJU, I watched the game, and I would say about 15 of their 30 shots were wide open. I dont want to press our luck that way again.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Feb 27, 2012 14:23:10 GMT -5
The problem with pressuring ND is that they are good at finding spaces for 3s. I dont think we will play much pressure today. As much as they struggled from 3 against SJU, I watched the game, and I would say about 15 of their 30 shots were wide open. I dont want to press our luck that way again. You press them to increase the tempo in the game. ND on the road plays variations of the "burn" and if they know you aren't a very good offensive team but have more athletes, they'll take the air out of the ball. So to change that--up the tempo and if you remember in the "Space Jam Uniform game" aka the "Austin Diabetes Game" Hoyas made a run pressuring ND--and they had better guards then/more ball handlers then they do now. Georgetown needs to use press to get energy going/manufacture some scoring because they aren't a consistently good offensive team. Too reliant on Clark/Hollis and only Jason will drive to basket. So press ND, wear them down, get some cheap hoops (SJU did same thing and threw a similar lineup at ND--no traditional PG, big overall on court) and the legs get weary if you keep pressing. As to comment about Whittington being "shaky with ball" and wanting more Starks. Whittington is far less shaky then Starks and he actually provides some production without having to score. If Starks isn't hitting his jumpshot-he's about as useless on the court as it gets--and it's to point-just hope he's hitting shots as Hoyas approach postseason and fills a role in that way because I expect nothing until he can work on his game in offseason or program finds a suitable/improved replacement. He's been a weakness this year.
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Feb 27, 2012 14:31:32 GMT -5
I think mixing it up and pressing them is not a bad idea, but I dont see us playing a lot of it. For one, we only have more of a zone press in the mix, and I dont think that will work against a team that can spread us out like ND.
I agree with SF. We need to continue to step it up on offense. Our defense is there. A deep run depends on our shooting. We've been starting games holding teams under 10-12 points in the first 10 minutes, but you look up at the scoreboard and its only 12-6.
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on Feb 27, 2012 14:37:29 GMT -5
$0.02:
In order to press all game, you have to practice pressing all game. Does anyone believe that we've done that? Particularly in a Saturday-Monday turnaround preparing for this game?
Georgetown has been effective this season using spot full court pressure at moments during games. To my recollection, we have never tried to sustain that for all or even the majority of any game.
And I think there is a significant difference. It's not a light switch, you can just turn on and leave on. Because we can press in spots very well does not mean we can press the whole game.
My guess is you're going to see Georgetown play the defense they have for the whole season. There will be some pressure, but probably not enough for some fans.
Please note I'm not discounting those who think we should do it, I see the reasoning behind that argument, but we can't just become that at the end of February, early March.
At this point, whether we think that the team should or shouldn't press the whole game is fairly irrelevant (for all practical purposes anyway), IMO.
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Feb 27, 2012 14:37:52 GMT -5
Agreed.
|
|
KirbyKeger
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,106
|
Post by KirbyKeger on Feb 27, 2012 14:52:44 GMT -5
I'd love to see us at least begin with the press. It could be useful in compensating for our slow starts. It certainly worked against Nova (obviously a weaker opponent but still important to note).
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 27, 2012 14:54:26 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see how much zone we use tonigjht. The zone has been increasingly effective this season, but unless we close out strong ND might get too many open looks. As others have said, I would expect a mix of defenses in the first 10-12 minutes, then concentrate on what is working best.
|
|
|
Post by lancasterhoyafan on Feb 27, 2012 15:01:04 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see how much zone we use tonigjht. The zone has been increasingly effective this season, but unless we close out strong ND might get too many open looks. As others have said, I would expect a mix of defenses in the first 10-12 minutes, then concentrate on what is working best. Spot on!
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Feb 27, 2012 15:01:38 GMT -5
Just because you haven't done something--doesn't mean you shouldn't or cannot do it. It's not like III's press is full court-he never has a guy on ball and usually picks up 3/4. One of III's weaknesses as a coach is the lack of gameplanning for opponents and understanding his advantages-which is something Bob Wenzel accurately pointed out Saturday (Hoyas can beat the #1 team by 5 pts, but keep lesser teams in game). Part of that is because III will do same thing each game--so if you are going into a game with Georgetown, you dont' even have to defend personnel--you only have to defend pattern/spots on the court. If you take away cuts/backdoors, this offense is a jump shooting offense that relies on dribble hand offs. That's not difficult to defend for a bad team/lesser talented team. Some games--you just need to go out, run someone off the court. Others you need to play more measured and can't match firepower.
One discussion that is being talked about a lot in regards to the Hoyas is the need for an elite PG. It's not a necessity in whatever offense we're calling what Hoyas utilize now--but it is if you rarely get to run the system--which in conference/postseason rarely happens-most teams zone Georgetown to take away the cuts/backdoor threats. So that's where an elite guard come into play and it really needs to be addressed for this young core to take next step forward. It helps in transition/creating shots/points and it helps in area the defense suffers--opposing point guards. Opponents guards get to rest on defense and often breakdown the Hoyas with ease. I think it's also needed in valuing the ball as the Hoyas are too turnover prone to be relegated to a system that is run in part to limit turnovers and have threats all over the court. They lack that currently and have for some years now--so while I'm happy with the improvement/return to bigger roster, the weaknesses offensively haven't been improved--this team still turns it over at a poor rate compared to style of halfcourt they prefer to play and not being an open court/transition team. That's why as currently constructed-they need to utilize their press more and especially against teams like Notre Dame.
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Feb 27, 2012 15:06:26 GMT -5
Ah the "burn" offense versus the "princetown" offense (formerly a type of "burn" offense). As long as we make our open shots, I believe we will be fine. As bad as our offense has been in BE play, it hasn't been due to a lack of finding good shots through the offense. I hope that Coach is telling the players to value EVERY possession and make shots because this is a game where we need to. Keep the intensity up on defense, because that will be our calling card but it is time to improve our offense to make some noise going forward. The shooting %s of all of our players have declined since last year (except Hollis' consistent and excellent .459 3pt %). While it people could attribute it to a higher focus on players after the losses of AF and CW, I don't think that tells us the story. Either way, it is nearly March, time to step up!!
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Feb 27, 2012 15:10:21 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said, RDF, but almost every team has that issue. The ones that dont have Anthony Davis on their roster - i.e., players that can just take over games despite the system's limitations. That's just college basketball. You can win a championship with a system.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Feb 27, 2012 15:17:17 GMT -5
which is something Bob Wenzel accurately pointed out Saturday (Hoyas can beat the #1 team by 5 pts, but keep lesser teams in game). Too bad he kept making the same point over and over in a game we won by 21.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,373
|
Post by prhoya on Feb 27, 2012 15:27:34 GMT -5
If JT3 plays pressure all game, I would be concerned with Jason's stamina for the rest of the year. One thing that stands out from previous years is the guard who plays at 100% all over the court. That's Jason. I'm loving it, but it would be too much to expect that it wouldn't affect his game the rest of the way. So, I want JT3 to mix it up on defense, give JC breathers if we're pressing and use different line-ups.
As for the PG and zones, I get your point of view, RDF, and I would love a guard that could penetrate it and create havoc. For now, and since we don't have it, I like that JT3 is giving Otto the responsibility to get in the middle of the zone (and Jabril/GW are not afraid to pass it to him). He's such a brilliant mid-range jumper from that spot that we could break zones that way and use Henry/Nate/MH moving around the baseline. What we'll need is someone (or more) who's constantly moving around the perimeter and who's not afraid to pull the trigger from the perimeter.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Feb 27, 2012 15:45:02 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you said, RDF, but almost every team has that issue. The ones that dont have Anthony Davis on their roster - i.e., players that can just take over games despite the system's limitations. That's just college basketball. You can win a championship with a system. Systems don't win--players do. Every program has a preferred way to play/system--but the teams who do best in March gameplan for who they are playing and attack their weakness and make teams beat them. Beauty of sports is that can happen-where a team has unexpected contributors and "weak link" steps up. But at least you make them beat you. Georgetown system isn't like that. Hoyas will play everyone the same and that keeps lesser teams in game and why nobody who is a mid major fears Georgetown. They know if you defend the areas of court that it neutralizes the offense because Hoyas don't get in transition and just "out talent" you. It's frustrating when Hoyas have size advantage, the best method is to be more aggressive/get more shots up and crash boards. If you hold the ball, play a limited possession game, it takes away your talent differential and area you can kill opponents and despite some great defense, you can hang with Hoyas if you have good (dont' even need great-just good) guards. Because they get to rest on defense as Hoyas offense operates on players being in spots--instead of exploiting matchups/mismatches and Georgetown doesn't get offense out of their great defense, so it helps keep a team in the game. It's why Hoyas are more dangerous as underdog then high seeded favorite imo. When Hoyas are a dog--they tend to frustrate teams with how they play. When they are favored, they do lesser teams favors. Just an area that I see an elite guard taking the program to next level--it would be able to create an extra 10-12 pts per game and as we've seen--if Hoyas under III score 69 pts or more--they are damn near unbeatable.
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Feb 27, 2012 15:53:54 GMT -5
I still think you can say the same thing about every team in the country. Look at Syracuse, people were ready to crown them as unbeatable, but it's quite clear they play a certain way, and have certain weaknesses. They are very susceptible to an 8 seed taking them out, IMO. There is just too much parity in CBB to think that any team (notwithstanding Kentucky and UNC who get every best recruit, every year) can be good enough to win several different ways.
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 27, 2012 15:57:02 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree, PR. I don't know if I've ever noticed Jason being winded. Ever. He's 21-22 years old. He could run 7 games in consecutive days if need be. Do you think Kemba was in significantly better shape than Jason when UConn won the conference tourney last year playing all those games in a row? Plus, we have a bench this year and Jason has never had to play 40 mintues a game.
I would start by pressing like hell tonight to disrupt their offense, especially since their ball handling is not that great. If they start breaking the press and knocking down open 3s to beat it, then maybe call it off. But our offense needs to manufacture ways to score more easy buckets. The press might help us. I'd be willing to test it early and keep it on all game if it is effective.
Unless ND comes out icy cold again, even with good defense, we probably need to get into the mid-70s tonight. We have scored 73 or more points 3 times in the past 17 games. Need to find some easy O.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Feb 27, 2012 16:06:38 GMT -5
I still think you can say the same thing about every team in the country. Look at Syracuse, people were ready to crown them as unbeatable, but it's quite clear they play a certain way, and have certain weaknesses. They are very susceptible to an 8 seed taking them out, IMO. There is just too much parity in CBB to think that any team (notwithstanding Kentucky and UNC who get every best recruit, every year) can be good enough to win several different ways. Everyone has weakpoints and nobody is saying they don't. Every team is beatable too--we've seen that but the teams who consistently are in the mix also take the game to opponents. They gameplan for them and they make opponents raise their level of play. Boeheim's team gets about as many hoops off their defense as any team in country--so while they are in zone, and occasionally press, they also play offensively with a lot of freedom and get easy hoops. They also do a good job of attacking teams weakspots-and get a lot out of dribble penetration and aggressive approach be it beating teams up the court before they get set on defense, or having players who are tougher to defend because each position is allowed to attack. You can't defend them by defending spots--you have to respect/recognize personnel. They'll also adjust how they are playing depending on who they are playing. Brey does this as well and while he's annnoying as hell--he'll play style of game that gives his team best chance and gameplan for an opponent. That's where "Burn" comes in. Then he'll run if he feels he has advantage there--and switches up. Before this place/thread turns into a "Quit bashing..." thread, I'm not saying III is a bad coach or need to re-invent the team now--but it's in support for wanting to see him utilize his strength (defense) to generate and help compensate for an average offensive team this year. This group needs to find ways to generate more offense because they aren't a very good halfcourt offensive team. Other comment is to correct the one area that needs improvement in recruiting--the need to have an elite point guard. For this to happen-he's going to have to re-assess his preferred offensive approach because too often his teams never get chance to use it--due to facing zone and when they see zone--they eliminate his principles on offense. So you need playmakers and guys who will penetrate and attack and not just spot up and fire and you need someone who can effectively push the pace/get team in transition without turning the ball over at a high rate--which we see from this team in halfcourt system that doesn't have high possessions.
|
|