Wrinkles for the Princeton O?

[BeantownHoya]

I am certainly no expert in the Princeton offense (or an offense with Princeton principles) but is there no room for additional wrinkles/sets?

I realize the offense is based on read and react but it has felt very stagnant the last 2 games. Yes I do realize that's a very small sample and we have had tremendous success so far to this point but I am fearful the deeper we get into the season the more teams begin to figure out how to play our offense defensively. I feel like that has been a common thread our last two seasons.

I guess I am wondering how difficult it is to implement a couple different sets this far into the season? As an example is there nothing Northwestern runs that we could attempt to duplicate since the offenses are similar?

I just start getting concerned with our offense being so reliant on back door cuts and three point shooting when both aren't happening we seem very lost.

Again I know were 13-2 but we have started off very fast the last two seasons only to fade late and I think a huge key to that has been teams solving our offense.

[SFHoya99]

We have plenty of other things we've thrown in - pick and roll, UCLA cuts, etc. We basically run a completely different offense against a zone, so there's that, too. The players need to execute -- and tossing the ball around lazily isn't part of the offense.

Good Princeton offenses understand the value of a possession. Our team does not, and will not be any good until they do.

[superan]

Jan 9, 2012 23:08:33 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Good Princeton offenses understand the value of a possession. Our team does not, and will not be any good until they do.

This is correct.

[gtowndynasty]

I am very concerned. When the offense stalls, we have nothing. This has reared its head time and time again. IF you want a blueprint on how to beat us, look at last two games. There it is.

Its not all on III tho, our guys need to learn how to adapt and play ball on the fly when things arent going right, but instead we just look passive while we try and run an O the opposing team already knows VERY well and play the lanes. We MUST add a wrinkle.

I dont think this is rocket science. We do well out of conference because the teams we are playing are unfamiliar. When we get into conference, this happens every year. I was hoping this year would be different, but RIGHT NOW it is not looking so. For the love of GOD, please add something new.

[mfk24]

The offense stalls when we stop attacking and cutting hard and miss open shots. It has absolutely nothing to do with the type of offense we run and everything to do with execution. You watch UConn at all? They typically have 3 guys on the floor at the same time that can create on their own and they run a completely different type of offense than we do, much more run and gun and pick and roll in their sets, and still have some stretches when the offense stalls. There are 5 other players of the opposite team out there.

[gtowndynasty]

Alright man. You got it. I know nothing except that EVERY year when we get into conference we seem to have issues with the same teams, who we have more talent than. But I guess its because the players all of a sudden 'stop cutting'. Difference between us and uconn, is that you dont know what their players are going to do so when it stalls its more on them. OUr opponents know wht we are trying to do. See the big Euro kid from WVU in his postgame presser say we were well prepared for their stuff bc our coach KNOWS it.

[RDF]

Jan 9, 2012 23:08:33 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

We have plenty of other things we've thrown in - pick and roll, UCLA cuts, etc. We basically run a completely different offense against a zone, so there's that, too. The players need to execute -- and tossing the ball around lazily isn't part of the offense.

Good Princeton offenses understand the value of a possession. Our team does not, and will not be any good until they do.

I'm far more concerned about the lack of a wrinkle for a damn inbounds play. I'm not angry about the progress of this group because I think they are on track and these are type of teams who own III--they are tough, physical and athletic. In other words--they are like his dad's teams. What I'm highly irritated by--how many friggin years will it take to make an adjustment to the inbounds plays and those turnovers aren't due to youth of this year's team--they happen REPEATEDLY with III's teams and have no reason to be happening. It's coaching. Make a damn adjustment for goodness sake!

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Please don't start with this PO bull, it's called the Georgetown Offense...it's about attacking and it starts with the point guard, if he's not attacking all hell will break loose amongst other things, but everything starts with the pg...

[RockawayHoya]

The offense shot 59% from the field and 60% from 3 yesterday. Its ability to create good shots for our players is unquestionably successful. It's been that way for years.

The wrinkles have to come in the form of eliminating lazy entry passes into the post, having our guys move towards the pass instead of letting it come to them and giving the defender a chance to overplay the passing lanes and force a turnover, and being strong with the ball instead of continuously letting defenders poke the ball away. All those things have nothing to do with how we run our offensive sets and everything to do with executing fundamental basketball.

[Dhall]

The only wrinkle we need is a point guard who can take the ball at the top of the key and beat his defender to then dish to an open player or score/draw a foul. You know what offense Cincy ran last night? It was the "Dixon/Kilpatrick beat your man offense".

[HoyasAreHungry]

posted this in the St Johns pregame thread but think it bears repeating here with some edits:

The problem is not the princtown offense itself its when they go to "eat up the clock" defensive offense IE running our sets deep into the clock. The key to all the big games we have won and the best we look on offense is WE RAN MORE!!!! No i don't mean running and gunning, I mean the pace of the game is faster....we get good shots off early in the shotclock most times and we run off defensive rebounds when we can. We struggle to score when we go into slow it down take time off the clock defensive offense. Why do u think when we are blowing out a team they have been able to creep back into the game. Think about our big wins and the types of teams we are playing. FAST BREAKING TEAMS...the whole game is fast. We need to impose our pace which is really a happy medium between the fast breaking and the execution in the half court. That's where we are most deadly. Really as simple as this. Again I'm not advocating run and gun but we did NOT push the ball at all last night even when given the opportunity. Too stagnant in the halfcourt, dealing with a physical team=offensive struggles

[SFHoya99]

Jan 10, 2012 10:01:50 GMT -5 Dhall said:

The only wrinkle we need is a point guard who can take the ball at the top of the key and beat his defender to then dish to an open player or score/draw a foul. You know what offense Cincy ran last night? It was the "Dixon/Kilpatrick beat your man offense".

That kind of offense does fail a lot. Plus, I think Markel and Jason can do that -- but neither did much last night.

[EasyEd]

Jan 10, 2012 9:50:19 GMT -5 RockawayHoya said:

The offense shot 59% from the field and 60% from 3 yesterday. Its ability to create good shots for our players is unquestionably successful. It's been that way for years.

The wrinkles have to come in the form of eliminating lazy entry passes into the post, having our guys move towards the pass instead of letting it come to them and giving the defender a chance to overplay the passing lanes and force a turnover, and being strong with the ball instead of continuously letting defenders poke the ball away. All those things have nothing to do with how we run our offensive sets and everything to do with executing fundamental basketball.

Yep.

[strummer8526]

Jan 10, 2012 10:01:50 GMT -5 Dhall said:

The only wrinkle we need is a point guard who can take the ball at the top of the key and beat his defender to then dish to an open player or score/draw a foul. You know what offense Cincy ran last night? It was the "Dixon/Kilpatrick beat your man offense".

And they did. Repeatedly.

[GIGAFAN99]

The wrinkle we need is the element of surprise. You can call an offense a "read and react" offense all you want but when it's a series of patterns, players start to get comfortable doing the same thing. In theory, the offense is Baskin Robbins, but after awhile if you end up just ordering mint chocolate chip it could be any offense.

When that happens, it's III's job to break tendencies and call a set play or change the gameplan in a way that forces our offense to try Butter Pecan.

Now, I'm hungry.

[gtowndynasty]

Listen to Jason's postgame presser. I think this more than adequately outlines my point.

Im a fan of the O. It leads to high shooting percentages and guys getting good looks. No issue there.

My issue is that when we need a bucket, as last night, the O cannot be what we go to. Our offense is an equal opportunity O, which is fine No argument from me there. However, the play where Otto turns it over...WTF was that. Why not draw up something to ensure your best players, Jason or Hollis get that shot? That is the type of wrinkle Id like to see. It happened at the end of every close game last year. It happens out of every timeout. III must be able to draw up plays outside of the O when it aint working.

Also, Id like to see us run sets for a guy with a hot hand as someone above has eluded to as opposed to just saying he will get shots within the flow of the O.

But Ive come back away from the ledge though and am not as irrational as I was last night.

[strummer8526]

Jan 10, 2012 14:22:06 GMT -5 GIGAFAN99 said:

The wrinkle we need is the element of surprise. You can call an offense a "read and react" offense all you want but when it's a series of patterns, players start to get comfortable doing the same thing. In theory, the offense is Baskin Robbins, but after awhile if you end up just ordering mint chocolate chip it could be any offense.

When that happens, it's III's job to break tendencies and call a set play or change the gameplan in a way that forces our offense to try Butter Pecan.

Now, I'm hungry.

If the play he draws up is Otto dribbling around the baseline for 10 seconds while our best ballhandlers and scorers stand around watching, that sounds like Butter Pecan't to me.

[bigelephant]

Everyone loves a winner and nobody loves a loser. The PO/GO is just fine when we win but when we lose it's always the fault of the PO/GO. Anyhow as far as last nite goes - there's plenty of blame all around. I thought Nate had a good game and I hope he brings it for the rest of the season. But it wont help much if a lot other others don't show up. We need all, every nite with/without the PO/GO. Just play to and above your capabilities.

[757hoyafan]

Jan 10, 2012 14:51:58 GMT -5 bigelephant said:

Everyone loves a winner and nobody loves a loser. The PO/GO is just fine when we win but when we lose it's always the fault of the PO/GO. Anyhow as far as last nite goes - there's plenty of blame all around. I thought Nate had a good game and I hope he brings it for the rest of the season. But it wont help much if a lot other others don't show up. We need all, every nite with/without the PO/GO. Just play to and above your capabilities.

....................

[kchoya]

Jan 10, 2012 9:44:55 GMT -5 glidehoyas (Inactive) said:

Please don't start with this PO bull, it's called the Georgetown Offense...it's about attacking and it starts with the point guard, if he's not attacking all hell will break loose amongst other things, but everything starts with the pg...

Your post could not be more wrong. Do you even have a clue about the Princeton or Georgetown offense? I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure an "attacking" point guard is not the foundation of JT3's offense.