chep3
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Post by chep3 on Nov 10, 2011 10:10:15 GMT -5
On the contrary, it agrees. If I'm reading that correctly, it's listed as a "psychiatric" disorder, not a "psychotic" disorder. I'm no psychiatrist, but my understanding of psychosis is that it is characterized by a break with reality. I don't think Sandusky for a second didn't know exactly what he was doing.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Nov 10, 2011 10:16:25 GMT -5
On the contrary, it agrees. If I'm reading that correctly, it's listed as a "psychiatric" disorder, not a "psychotic" disorder. I'm no psychiatrist, but my understanding of psychosis is that it is characterized by a break with reality. I don't think Sandusky for a second didn't know exactly what he was doing. I don't think RDF was making a specific case about psychosis versus psychiatric issues more than just "guy is messed up in the head so of course he'll act like a monster." Now he should never be allowed in public again, but the point is according to psychiatry the guy has an illness.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 10, 2011 10:20:30 GMT -5
I will preface this by stating that I am a life long PSU fan. Gtown is a Jesuit University affiliated with the Catholic church. That entire institution masked pedophiles for decades!!! Why didn't we call for the Pope's head when that all happened? This doesn't justify what happened at PSU as they are equally horrendous but people, to say that Paterno blatantly lied to his superiors and is at fault is a sticky proposition. The following post article makes a good point, Paterno's closeness with Sandusky probably prevented him from being able to see things clearly. His history with Sandusky probably allows him to assume that McQueary's report to him was somehow a misperception. Now if he told JoePa, "I saw Jerry sodomizing a child", then my argument is completely flawed and I get that but at present, we do not know what was conveyed and at present, I would give a guy with a 55+ year track record the benefit of the doubt. Whether he coached another game doesn't really matter to me at this point, but to trash his entire reputation immediately with out all the facts does. One last commment. I am sure many of us have known or do know pedophiles. Your relationship may cloud your view but I would suggest that with the percentage of predators in our nation, you have probably not only known one, but you have trusted one. Maybe even a Jesuit while you were at Georgetown. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/blame-for-the-penn-state-scandal-does-not-lie-with-joe-paterno/2011/11/08/gIQADqMF3M_story.html This article doesn't once mention the fact that McQuery told Paterno about Sandusky. Its one thing to miss it if you're never confronted with it. It's another thing to pass the buck when you are confronted with it (and, I'm sorry, but the second you are told that there is a grown man showering w/ a 10 yr old, you no longer get to pretend you don't know). Paterno didn't do ANYTHING. He is the most powerful man at PSU (your comparison of him to the Pope more than shows this), and to pass on the info to his superiors and then CONTINUE ACTING LIKE NOTHING HAPPENED is morally reprehensible, and he deserves everything he is getting. And it doesn't matter how the Catholic Church reacted, the failures of leadership in that organization don't excuse what happened at Penn St.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Nov 10, 2011 10:21:16 GMT -5
Yeah I'm not disagreeing with that. I just don't like the "he's messed up in the head so of course he'll act like a monster." He's not messed up in the head enough not to act on it. I'm guessing that not everyone who has pedophilic thoughts acts on them.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 10, 2011 10:27:44 GMT -5
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Nov 10, 2011 10:46:28 GMT -5
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 10, 2011 10:57:36 GMT -5
TBird, I think it references that in the indictment (McQ to JoePa). My point is that the relationship clouds the judgement & vision that you would think you would have in a similar situation. As far as pointing out the church, I highlight that since we as members of the Gtown community who are passing judgement very quickly are being somewhat hypocritical in that our own institution failed miserably when involved with a much more grandiose cover-up.
My guess is where there is smoke there is fire and the timing of Sandusky's retirement & the additional victims who have stepped up say that I am wrong on this and JoePa may have known more and thus should have gone over the heads of the AD when they didn't respond but in the age of instant speculation, I still would wait to pass judgement until all is known.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 10, 2011 11:10:22 GMT -5
TBird, I think it references that in the indictment (McQ to JoePa). My point is that the relationship clouds the judgement & vision that you would think you would have in a similar situation. As far as pointing out the church, I highlight that since we as members of the Gtown community who are passing judgement very quickly are being somewhat hypocritical in that our own institution failed miserably when involved with a much more grandiose cover-up. My guess is where there is smoke there is fire and the timing of Sandusky's retirement & the additional victims who have stepped up say that I am wrong on this and JoePa may have known more and thus should have gone over the heads of the AD when they didn't respond but in the age of instant speculation, I still would wait to pass judgement until all is known. There doesn't seem to be much difference between the way the Catholic Church handled its crisis and the way Penn State has handled this. And unless someone is defending the way the Church handled it - which I don't recall seeing on this board - there is no hypocrisy. Both institutions failed miserably, and in pretty much the exact same way.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 10, 2011 11:14:54 GMT -5
agree with you guru. The only difference is one violator versus a century of violations. The outcome is still the same. How could the president of a major univesity know this information for a decade and not stop the suffering of the youth?
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 10, 2011 11:36:52 GMT -5
I might have confused my words but all I can say is that I hope everyone involved in violating the children/allowing it to continue suffers a miserable, painful death that is so painful they wish they were never created. Nothing will be painful enough to give justice the victims.
1 of 6 male children have been molested by the age of 16 and 1 of 4 female children by age of 14. DISGRACEFUL. Yet-nice to see PSU fans perspective of "worrying about Joe Pa"--if that man "is Penn State"--they need to shut that place down. He's a self serving, selfish, SOB who put his own goals as a coach ahead of the well being of children. His actions show that he has no concept of what is the true issue of importance and then throws out a half hearted "and pray some for the vicitims too". Really--what a guy! How many would've been saved if they did something to take this deviant, despicable predator off the streets? **** a prayer, I want the victims and their families to decide the fate of these animals.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 10, 2011 11:38:02 GMT -5
Sky, I don't remember the Pope stepping down. This gets off topic so I will leave it at that. I don't think the President did know anything. There is nothing in the indictment on that but please correct me if I am wrong. This is more of a lack of institutional control type deal.
Schultz (head of finance) & Curley (AD) are the two who supposedly squashed the reports and didn't report to authorities. They are the two indicted. Your comment highlights my point that speculation is driving this. Sure, fire everybody. I am fine with that. But making assumptions on all of the other cloudy information is dangerous. That is my whole point.
If the cover up gets bigger, then sure, Joe Pa & Spanier & others be damned but my point is the past good deeds are the reason I would withhold my opinion. From current information, it doesn't appear Spanier could have stopped the suffering of the youth. Curley & Schultz, without a doubt. PSU football produces over 70 million a year so it is no surprise the head of finance and AD wanted to keep things quiet. Totally horrendous, but there is a motive. As far as Joe Pa & Spanier, I would think they would have less to gain and I am crossing my fingers that they knew as little at they portended to know.
Also, how does McQuery live with himself not having run into the showers and breaking up the assault? Unbelievable.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 10, 2011 12:03:04 GMT -5
Paterno knew of at least two occasions when this guy was caught in a shower with a very young boy. He did nothing and was silent for years as this guy continued to hang around with young kids. I don't know how anyone can defend this guy.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 10, 2011 12:17:02 GMT -5
Now that the Board of Trustees has done their knee-jerk reaction, they have NO plan for the future. I will still be at the Beaver on saturday supporting the team, because the kids deserve it. As far as financial support, I will be with-holding it until I see what they are going to do and who fills the key positions. The media coveerage on this been absolutely terrible, especially trying to indicate the students were rioting. PSU is not UMCP and the students don't destroy where they live. "That TV van was flipped over when we got here."
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 10, 2011 12:37:05 GMT -5
Just read that Spanier is a trained therapist, with a Ph.D. in psychology! Unbelievable!
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 10, 2011 13:23:41 GMT -5
I realize that this is a tragic, serious subject, but some of these tweets on the "riots" are seriously funny.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Nov 10, 2011 14:04:36 GMT -5
Paterno knew of at least two occasions when this guy was caught in a shower with a very young boy. He did nothing and was silent for years as this guy continued to hang around with young kids. I don't know how anyone can defend this guy. This. I don't care how much "you don't assume people are pedophiles." When this sort of thing is happening, you do something. As far as the Church comparisons go, I think there is one major difference (other than the magnitude of the scandals). I don't remember the Catholic laity rallying around the cathedrals in support of the bishops who covered up the actions of the abusive priests. I remember the Catholic community being up in arms, and many people leaving the Church. And yet in State College, students are up in arms in support of the football coach? The disconnect between those students and the rest of the country is alarming.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 10, 2011 14:15:53 GMT -5
The pressident was aware of the situation as early as 1998 according to the board of trustees. He approved the sanctions of not allowing young boys in the athletic complex after the 2002 incident.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 10, 2011 14:20:41 GMT -5
Anyone hear former PSU linebacker Dan Connor reply when asked if the person the police told them to stop prank calling was Sandusky?
1. No-it was another coach that he/some of the players kept prank calling 2. Rumors were abound about Sandusky's involvement with children 3. Sandusky was a CONSISTENT PRESENCE around the program--always working out, hanging around the offices, etc.....and DID have young people from his program with him on several occasions--as recently as '08
It's also mentioned that Sandusky's home is located very close to an elementary school. (normal behavior for a predator)
Apparently McQueary is "dying to share his side of things" which was on CFT (CollegeFootballTalk) and Paterno is going to address something as well--probably his anger at the victims for allowing this story to prevent him from breaking Amos Alonzo Stagg's all time coaching record for games, knowing the socially aware "Joe Pa".
For those who keep defending the scum like Paterno--the AVERAGE times a child molestor preys on victims is 107 times. Think of how many lives Paterno and his "subjects" could've saved from being violated? Now with rumors of Sandusky pimping out the boys to high price donators, this is turning into sex slave trade, NAMBLA implications, etc....and it's time for people to TALK. Someone needs to stay something other then "let the process play out" and worrying about the "Sad Day" for CFB fans that "Joe Pa" is out of work.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 10, 2011 14:22:06 GMT -5
IF true sky then yeah, he was wrong and should have moved mountains to make things right. On the student front, do people really expect students to act in anyway different then they have? Some protest supporting Joe, some protest for the victims, and a couple of idiots turn over a news van. Not surprised.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 10, 2011 14:24:13 GMT -5
The pressident was aware of the situation as early as 1998 according to the board of trustees. He approved the sanctions of not allowing young boys in the athletic complex after the 2002 incident. What a saint--"Jerry, go ahead and work out, hang out, but please keep your sexual molestation prey away from PSU, do that on your own time".
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