Anyone agree with this way of thinking?

[bigelephant]

Is it sophomoric or is there any truth?

www.thehoya.com/jtiii-s-legacy-hinges-on-2011-12-1.2659760

[flyoverhoya]

I'm convinced. Northwestern should definitely fire Bill Carmody.

[gtowndynasty]

Hard to argue against numbers as they are factual.

I think III is a good coach, not great, an excellent representation of GTown, and a good builder of men.

I also think his coaching can improve. I think his biggest area of need is to develop an alternative system that we can employ when the O stalls. I rewatched both the Ohio game and the VCU game within the past month and it was clear that when things stalled for us, we continued running the same thing, down big. I would love to see us employ a change of pace system, even if it just a mere pick n roll on every possession to get good, quick shots. Because teams have figured this O out. It is not as much of a novelty as it was during the FF run. Furthermore, we dont have the pieces we did then to execute it.

[chep3]

I think it's undeniable that the last 3 years have taken some of the luster off of what appeared to be a linear progression to elite coach/program status. That being said, I find the article a poorly made argument. On the one hand, III gets dinged for his record at Princeton while at the same time getting dinged for his successor having a poor record. One could just as easily argue that Carmody won with Pete Carill's player and because his successor (JTIII) had a worse record than he did, it's an indication of failing to build a program.

Whatever anyone says about JTIII inheriting Esh's roster, you'd have to be insane to deny that he got far more out of it than Esh every would have. Jeff Green is the best Hoya of the last 10 years, but he shouldn't be. Sweets was the most talented player to walk through the door since Iverson (with the possible exception of Greg), but Esh never built a team around him. And not because he didn't have the players either. III has done a hell of a job here, but certainly has flaws that he needs to improve (and has been, see recruiting). If this guy thinks we can improve drastically over JTIII, I'm not sure where he's getting that. There aren't a ton of coaches in the country better than him and even fewer that would consider coming here. But the mystery of a guy like Shaka Smart who has had success but no time for things to go downhill afterward is always going to trump what you have.

[alleninxis]

I would say there's more truth if his legacy hinges on the 2015 class.

But one year in which we'll have 8/11 kids be FR and SO's on the floor? Uh, no.

And I say this as someone who is not in the 'III can do no wrong' camp. Which after being a fan during the Esh error, I was.

"A school like Georgetown deserves..."

Hey, Matt...go out and see how many 'elite' coaches want this job right now. Good luck.

an NCAA tournament appearance is not necessary this year for the program's sake. What is necessary is a commitment to playing defense, opening things up and playing hard. Also necessary, is to let the young core of players grow and fight through mistakes so when in 2, 3, 4 years this group is where they can be..at an elite level.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Completely Sophomoric.

he compares JTIII's princeton teams losing in the first round to Georgetown losing in the first round as if they're the same thing.

He also says that JTIII's first class at Georgetown was entirely recruited by Esherick which isn't accurate.

I think that Joe Scott's lack of success at Princeton says a lot more about Joe Scott than it does about JTIII.

I know tons of Georgetown fans feel this way, so I don't really blame the writer.

I do agree this could be a big year if his contract is close to being up as the author says, but more that I feel like he'll get an extension after this year no matter what if his contract is up at the end of 2013, so it'll look better to get an extension after a good showing rather than a bad one. You usually don't wait till the final year of your contract to get renewed.

[bmartin]

Well, it is totally ignorant about what JTIII did at Princeton and what happened there after he left. He inherited a severely depleted roster and won the league with it, then tied for the title but lost a playoff, then finished third at 10-4, and then won the league at 13-1 in 2004. All the important players of his 2004 championship team returned but Joe Scott mismanaged and alienated them by making an excellent man-to-man team play his matchup zone, and by wasting Will Venable's athletic advantage by making him play a role scripted for a spot-up shooter. Some of JTIII's top recruits, Harrison Schaen, Max Schafer, clashed with Scott and then quit basketball. Those who stayed and played, Luke Owings for example, were benched for Scott's new recruits who were not as good.

He also is wrong about the Final Four team. Wallace was not an Esherick recruit. Patrick Ewing Jr. did not come here for Esherick. Dajuan Summers and Jessie Sapp and Vernon Macklin and Jeremiah Rivers were not Esherick recruits. And Roy and Jeff came to Georgetown because it was Georgetown, not because they wanted to play for Esherick.

[hoyasaxa2003]

I can understand frustrations with our recent post-season success, but I really think that this article is off-base. Aside from the factual errors noted above, the fact is that John Thompson III has made a HUGE difference for Georgetown basketball and I think he deserves to stay in that role. The fact is, we are not going to easily get a better coach to come to Georgetown, and I think John Thompson III is a really good coach, so there's no need for somebody else.

I was at Georgetown during the Esherick era (class of 2003), and the difference from then to now is not even close. John Thompson III is solely responsible for bringing this team back from the brink. If we hadn't hired Thompson and stuck with Esherick, we'd probably be keeping company with Providence, USF and DePaul at the bottom every year.

Regardless of the postseason, we have had a top 25 team more often than not under John Thompson III's reign. That alone is a pretty good record. The post-season wins will come.

[SirSaxa]

Matt Emch is a sophomore in the College. And has no idea what he's talking about. When JT3 took over at Princeton, the cupboard was bare and his superstar, 6'10 center opted for professional Baseball.

Certainly Roy and Jeff were critical to the Final Four run, but so were Jon Wallace, Summers, Sapp and Ewing JR -- all brought in by JT3

The only legit criticism is the recent disappointments in the NCAAs -- to an astonishing performance by Stephon Curry and an end of season catastrophe against Ohio. Last season, as FLHoya noted yesterday, the Hoyas RPI (or ranking) was top-15 when our PG was injured and lost for the season.

Finally, that son taking over for Dad applies much more when the son hasn't gone out and been a very successful head coach at another institution. 3 Ivy Titles in 4 years? That can't POSSIBLY be done with someone else's players. JT3 is an excellent coach fighting an uphill battle given the disastrous situation he inherited and the completely outdated facilities... but he still plays within the rules of recruiting and has been one of THE most successful programs in America over the last 6 years.

We are VERY lucky to have JT3, or we'd be looking like Seton Hall, St. John's, PC and others.
Matt has no idea what he is talking about. But, isn't that the definition of sophomoric?

[guru]

Stopped reading after this line early in the column:

"When JTIII took the reins of Georgetown basketball in 2004, it seemed predestined to work."

Uh, no. No it didn't seem that way. Like, at all. This is a student writer so he deserves some slack - but an analysis by someone with so little command of the program's history really isn't worth spending much time on.

[EasyEd]

Given time, the writer may grow into being sophomoric.

[kchoya]

Oct 21, 2011 9:50:00 GMT -5 guru said:

Stopped reading after this line early in the column:

"When JTIII took the reins of Georgetown basketball in 2004, it seemed predestined to work."

Uh, no. No it didn't seem that way. Like, at all. This is a student writer so he deserves some slack - but an analysis by someone with so little command of the program's history really isn't worth spending much time on.

This kid was, what, 11 years old when JT3 was hired?

[thebin]

Oct 21, 2011 9:50:00 GMT -5 guru said:

Stopped reading after this line early in the column:

"When JTIII took the reins of Georgetown basketball in 2004, it seemed predestined to work."

Uh, no. No it didn't seem that way. Like, at all. This is a student writer so he deserves some slack - but an analysis by someone with so little command of the program's history really isn't worth spending much time on.

Totally agree. Some statements are so wrong that they are "exactly wrong" which is to say they manage to convey the exact opposite of the truth. Saying JTII "seemed predestined to work" qualifies.

[Dhall]

Agree that the article is wrong. But JTIII is among the top 15-20 highest paid coaches in the country (based on public information at least). If Georgetown wanted to keep paying in the $2m range, they could find an excellent candidate. Whether they'd have any more success here than JTIII is completely unknowable. I'd rather that JTIII, who is young and smart and dedicated, be given the support he needs to learn from his experiences and improve the on-court results we've seen the past couple years.

[vcjack]

"Deserve" is a made up word when it comes to sports. And almost everything else.

[daytonahoya31]

I'm 33 years old. Been a fan since 85, which is as far back as I can remember. I've been through the great times, and I've been through the Esh times.

We were on our way to oblivion as a program with Esh.

For this kid to bash III on a few NCAA disappointments is just wrong. III has his faults, but there's no denying that his coaching saved our program. We've been to the tournament consistently. We've won BE titles. We've put people in the NBA. III has some pretty darn impressive accomplishments.

When we lost to VCU last spring, I was so angry I couldn't see straight. Then I realized that under our previous coach, we weren't GETTING to NCAA Tournaments. It kind of puts things in perspective.

More than anything, I'm starting to see a terrifying trend. We're becoming a fan base similar to the one that ran Herb Sendek out of town at NC State. How did that work out for the Wolfpack fans? They were going to sweet 16's, challenging for ACC titles and consistently going to the postseason. Without Herb? Nothing. At all.

People like this author need to check themselves in a major way. III is the best man for this job. He is our coach. He is working to improve the program every day.

And we're lucky to have him

[nychoya3]

JT3 is a great coach and a great representative for the University. I'd be 100 percent behind him even if he wasn't the son of the guy who basically created Georgetown basketball. And now JT3 is reloading. Reloading the roster. Reloading the staff. With all the conference turmoil going on, do we really need coaching turmoil as well?

I hate losing early in the tournament too, but we have fielded some pretty good teams the last few years and won a lot of big games. I forget about it too because of the sour ending, but some perspective is needed here. And of course perspective is the last thing I'd expect a sophomore writing for the Hoya to have.

[idhoya]

This season is reminiscent of 2004. Almost no expectations.

[tjm62]

It took Boeheim 11 years to crack the Final 4, and then another 8 to do it again. It took Calhoun 13 years to do the same (and he had a dozen years of coaching experience before that at Northeastern). Pitino? Another 13 year stretch until he did it. It took Jay Wright 8 years, and Villanova has sagged since then. Jamie Dixon? Never made it.

Yes, we've had a number of head-scratching, soul-crushing first round losses. But who exactly is a better option? Even if we had access to better coaches --which is probably unlikely-- many of the nation's best have had success over much longer periods of time. Moreover, many of these coaches have advantages in resources and recruiting that JTIII doesn't have.

Georgetown has the unenviable position of falling on wrong side of college sports realignment. Consistently putting together a nationally competitive team (which we have done, by the way, pretty much consistently) will only get harder -- and the same goes for retaining quality coaches and recruiting elite players. I hope as much as the next guy that we can break the multi-year streak of NCAA disappointment, but it's madness to think that changing the coach will do anything but permanently doom the program.

[TBird41]

Oct 21, 2011 10:35:51 GMT -5 nychoya3 said:

JT3 is a great coach and a great representative for the University. I'd be 100 percent behind him even if he wasn't the son of the guy who basically created Georgetown basketball. And now JT3 is reloading. Reloading the roster. Reloading the staff. With all the conference turmoil going on, do we really need coaching turmoil as well?

This is a great point. It'd be one thing to have these criticisms coming into this year if it wasn't pretty clear that JT3 realized that his previous approach wasn't getting it done and started to correct his mistakes. In the past two years, JT3 has:

1. Hired 3 new assistant coaches, two of which are known for their recruiting and one of which helps w/ Big Man U
2. Brought in recruits with length, athleticism and defensive mindsets
3. Stayed away from the low-mid major recruits that are almost guaranteed to transfer

If JT3 was doubling down on the methods/processes of the Austin/Chris era, I think he would be more deserving of these ultimatums. He's not though. And the corrections he's making look like they are the right ones that will get this program back to the footing it was on coming off the Roy/Jeff/Wallace era.