hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 18, 2012 10:43:18 GMT -5
The ACC has been more pro-active than the Big East and it has hurt the Big East. There is no reason why the ACC had to be the conference in the stronger position. Had the Big East made similar moves in the past (for example, trying to poach either ACC members or Big 12 members), the ACC might be the conference teetering on the edge of irrelevance, instead of the Big East.
The Big East is in a more difficult position because of the basketball schools, which is the reality of the situation. The other problem is that the Big East only had 8 football schools up to this point - obviously not enough to survive without adding other programs.
I really think the realignment that occurred in the mid-2000s could have been handled better and differently. The Big East, at that time, should not have added any more basketball-only schools and focused on getting to 12 football schools instead.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on May 18, 2012 12:09:03 GMT -5
The ACC isnt going to survive this either. Which has been my point since the beginning.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on May 18, 2012 12:19:33 GMT -5
KG, can you please define "survive"? It won't exist at all or it won't be recognized as a major football conference?
There are lots of schools on the East Coast that need to house football programs but who don't seem to fit into the SEC, BigXII or Big10 footprints. If you're left with a conference of the UConn, Wake, UMD, Rutgers, Temple etc... do you think they will play under the ACC name, the Big East name, neither, both?
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 18, 2012 12:31:59 GMT -5
The ACC isnt going to survive this either. Which has been my point since the beginning. Yeah I dont get why the conventional view is BE->ACC->Everyone else. The Big East has little that other conferences want. So that, ironically, buts them in a stronger position. What benefit is there for Rutgers to go to and ACC without VT or FSU or Miami? Basketball only benefits one or maybe two games a year (when Duke or UNC comes to town, which they can do now anyway), and football doesnt benefit because UNC isnt a draw for FB. The TV deal will not be what it is now, because that is largely based on VT or FSU or Miami being in the conference. This is the same for UConn. Louisville is the only school that is at all attractive to other conferences. And its only the Big 12 that would want them. But if the Big 12 can have two ACC teams why would they want Louisville? They would only take Lville, if it needed to even out the number of teams. The ACC teams wont want to leave, though, if the playoffs are determined by conference champs. Way easier to win the ACC than the Big12. If playoffs isnt tied to conference champs than who cares what conference you are in. If its not tied to conference champs then Texas should just go independent in football (im sure the big east would love to take their other sports) because they dont need a conference for anything. The school that is really being stupid in this is Notre Dame. They should have recognized a few years ago that the Big East would never be better than 5th or 6th best FB conference and that they could take advantage of this. If they had joined for football they would have been looking at like an 80% rate of going to BCS bowls every season. They would have had to be much better than they were the past few years. Being independent means if they lose to Mich and USC they are out completely, but in the Big East, who cares, just go to beat Rutgers and USF and all these other crap teams to go to a BCS game. ND FB is pushing its self towards irrelevance.
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 18, 2012 13:38:57 GMT -5
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Post by fsohoya on May 18, 2012 13:54:05 GMT -5
So if playoffs not conference champs, does the importance of conference membership for football just melt away? Surely there is still TV money at stake?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 18, 2012 14:42:50 GMT -5
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on May 18, 2012 14:57:08 GMT -5
Good. I don't know if Boise is a long term fixture, but any additional turmoil is not needed right now.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on May 18, 2012 15:01:30 GMT -5
KG, can you please define "survive"? It won't exist at all or it won't be recognized as a major football conference? There are lots of schools on the East Coast that need to house football programs but who don't seem to fit into the SEC, BigXII or Big10 footprints. If you're left with a conference of the UConn, Wake, UMD, Rutgers, Temple etc... do you think they will play under the ACC name, the Big East name, neither, both? What I mean is that the idea that some schools will leap to the ACC and, because of that, they end up in a big boy conference is wrong. As long as Texas keeps the Big 12 together, they are the 4th league. Not the ACC. And you see that happening today. There's really no difference between the Big East and the ACC. Both are on the outside looking in. Which is what I always figured would happen short of Texas/ND coming in to save the day. Ironically enough, I really think that the Big East was moments away from really challenging the ACC for that 4th spot if Texas and Co. went to, what would have become, the Pac 16.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 18, 2012 17:01:03 GMT -5
KG, can you please define "survive"? It won't exist at all or it won't be recognized as a major football conference? There are lots of schools on the East Coast that need to house football programs but who don't seem to fit into the SEC, BigXII or Big10 footprints. If you're left with a conference of the UConn, Wake, UMD, Rutgers, Temple etc... do you think they will play under the ACC name, the Big East name, neither, both? What I mean is that the idea that some schools will leap to the ACC and, because of that, they end up in a big boy conference is wrong. As long as Texas keeps the Big 12 together, they are the 4th league. Not the ACC. And you see that happening today. There's really no difference between the Big East and the ACC. Both are on the outside looking in. Which is what I always figured would happen short of Texas/ND coming in to save the day. Ironically enough, I really think that the Big East was moments away from really challenging the ACC for that 4th spot if Texas and Co. went to, what would have become, the Pac 16. Yep. The ACC is better than the Big East by yards, while the Big Boys are ahead by miles. Over the last five seasons has the ACC really been that much better than the Big East? In the opinion polls maybe, not in bowl games or in actual wins. The Big East has to hate the ACC, but also has to work with it. They have to form an alternate bowl for their non playoff champs. They have to play more games against each other. They have to work together to get better. Cross marketing games against each other, forming rivals, etc. But the Big East also has to develop teams that can win. You only need three or four that can win a championship, Not 8. Boise, one of the Florida schools, Louisville and Cincy, or Rutgers, are the teams that need to be good. Everyone else needs to be just good enough to win outside the conference but not so good they mess up undefeated seasons for the good guys.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 18, 2012 17:10:43 GMT -5
If the ACC loses any 2 of the big members: FSU, VT, Miami, Clemson then the BE should be the ones calling ACC schools to join the BE.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 18, 2012 18:42:42 GMT -5
If the ACC loses any 2 of the big members: FSU, VT, Miami, Clemson then the BE should be the ones calling ACC schools to join the BE. Hello, Pitt? Syracuse? Benedict Arnold College? Have we got a deal for you!! ;D
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on May 20, 2012 9:04:40 GMT -5
If the ACC loses any 2 of the big members: FSU, VT, Miami, Clemson then the BE should be the ones calling ACC schools to join the BE. Hello, Pitt? Syracuse? Benedict Arnold College? Have we got a deal for you!! ;D You cover all atty fees, we'll keep your deposit but let you stay.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on May 22, 2012 10:53:48 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on May 22, 2012 13:35:38 GMT -5
Fantastic news.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on May 22, 2012 13:39:52 GMT -5
Is there much doubt that ESPN wants to diminish the conference to enhance the value of its exclusive negotiating window? Unfortunately it won't work. It might be entertaining to see how ESPN would treat the Big East if it actually wins the negotiating war.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on May 22, 2012 13:42:34 GMT -5
Either that or they have to suck it up and try to pre-empt giving NBC/FOX/CBS a chance by blowing us out of the water. That might be the smart move. The question is have they burned that bridge? Do we let them do that if the money is there? If they just wanted to devalue our package, isn't the thing to do decline to even enter the negotiating window with us? Just say, "forget it, we offerered you more than you were worth and you turned it down." Now they clearly have to go much higher than the last deal, even though the product isn't as attractive.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 23, 2012 13:03:00 GMT -5
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on May 23, 2012 14:22:50 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on May 23, 2012 14:40:14 GMT -5
We're definitely trying. Any idea whether BYU might be a bball member also? Probably too hard geographically.
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