sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Sept 20, 2011 7:18:48 GMT -5
agree daymon though any negotiation may require some sort of split agreement regarding the BBall tournament location.
I'm not supportive at all of the basketball only conference unless as last resort.
I donot have any faith at all in the ability of the clowns in Providence to provide any leadership towards resolving this other than to the inevitable conclusion of a basketball only situation.
With 3 of the 6 remaining fbs with one foot out the door and the others scrambling for other options and all of them blaming Providence for lack vision,action and clear ineptitude the only way this can possibly be put together on a short term and maybe even on a long term basis is if separate group of fbs and non fbs can put together a plan for short term stability with a real outline for a long term health for whatever this conference becomes.
Realisticly not much chance in happening especially if the poaching continues over the next few months but i believe its the only option other than The Dreaded Catholic league.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Sept 20, 2011 7:25:14 GMT -5
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 20, 2011 7:27:20 GMT -5
espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6993604/big-east-big-12-talking-possible-merger-sources-sayExcerpts
Big East and Big 12 conference and school officials have been exploring ways to merge their embattled leagues, but talks have centered on an arrangement in which what's left of the Big East schools would blend into the Big 12, and not vice-versa, multiple Big 12 sources told ESPN.com's Andy Katz.
The sources said that if Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Oklahoma State were to leave the Big 12 and the five remaining schools didn't have a landing in the ACC, SEC or Big Ten then they would move to absorb remaining Big East schools, not the other way around.
The most likely Big East candidates to be grabbed by remaining Big 12 schools are Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida and TCU, with the prospect that Connecticut and Rutgers may not be available if each school can land in the ACC.
West Virginia would obviously be high up on the list and the first one to be invited in any kind of merger if the Mountaineers don't wind up in the SEC.
According to a source close to Notre Dame, the Irish's first choice is to remain as an independent in football and stay in the Big East in all other sports.
If the Irish decide they can't remain as a football independent then the choice would be to pursue the ACC before the Big Ten.
But the latter is not the ideal scenario for the fiercely independent Irish. The Irish don't want to give up independence unless forced.
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Post by bigelephant on Sept 20, 2011 7:32:12 GMT -5
Just about every option being considered is detrimental to Georgetown. The time to have positioned ourselves in a better place was years ago when we should have considered moving up to 1 A football. Villanova would probably have followed suit. There are lots of arguments against such a move, but how do you like where we are now???
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 20, 2011 7:40:22 GMT -5
This is turning into SUCH shenanigans. Georgetown should be leading the charge here to jettison the football teams, create a basketball-focus Big East, and actively pursue Butler, Xavier, Memphis and a few other teams. It can work with some leadership and confidence.
Everyone else is zigging - we should zag and market the hell out of a new Big East that values traditional hoops, alignment of interests, loyalty going forward, rivalries, stability, and sustainability. This NOT the Patriot League or Ivy League. This is the NEW Big East basketball with a lot of high level teams with young and up-and-coming coaches. With the right branding and marketing (and hopefully team success), the league can compete at the top of college basketball.
We are turning into pawns of a larger game in which we have no leverage. The sad and inevitable conclusion is that we will be discarded by the football schools.
Take control of your destiny Georgetown, and turn a negative into a positive. TODAY!!!
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Post by fsohoya on Sept 20, 2011 7:40:41 GMT -5
Just about every option being considered is detrimental to Georgetown. The time to have positioned ourselves in a better place was years ago when we should have considered moving up to 1 A football. Villanova would probably have followed suit. There are lots of arguments against such a move, but how do you like where we are now??? GU could never have moved to 1-A football. It would have bankrupted us and we probably wouldn't have met the 15,000 attendees-per-game minimum. On a slightly different topic totally about basketball culture - not about what will happen on our continued descent into college sports hell - I'd love to play in a new conference with Kansas. But doesn't K-State seem to fit right into the old Big East, blue-collar mold? Frank Martin especially seems right out of BE central casting. |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 20, 2011 7:46:35 GMT -5
FSO - it won't work in the long-term. We ultimately are not aligned with the likes of Kansas and Kansas St. We'll be in the same position 2 years from now.
And I believe Frank Martin to be cut from the Kelvin Sampson and Bruce Pearl mold.
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Post by fsohoya on Sept 20, 2011 7:51:49 GMT -5
FSO - it won't work in the long-term. We ultimately are not aligned with the likes of Kansas and Kansas St. We'll be in the same position 2 years from now. And I believe Frank Martin to be cut from the Kelvin Sampson and Bruce Pearl mold. I don't think it will work, either, and have written that numerous places. I think the football-free conference is the only stable option, and that it could be pretty relevant. But if I could get the best imaginable outcome from what's happening, we would somehow be in a stable conference with Kansas. And I just then thought about K-State because they seem like an old-fashioned BE program. Why, by the way, do you think Martin is from the Sampson-Pearl mold? Has he been implicated in something? And it's not like we don't have those types in the BE. One just won a national championship... |
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Post by RockawayHoya on Sept 20, 2011 7:54:35 GMT -5
I think the writing is already on the wall; the BE football schools want out and will join the B12 if they have to in order to do it. Whether we like it or not, we are not part of anyone's plans and are effectively on our on with the rest of the BE basketball-only schools.
At this point, the only decision to be made is whether or not to go the basketball-only route with what's left of the BE or to join a mid-major. If they're going to go the former, then they (meaning G'town and the rest of the basketball-only BE) better start acting quick to put together a list of teams to add before the latter becomes the only option.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Sept 20, 2011 7:59:15 GMT -5
This is turning into SUCH shenanigans. Georgetown should be leading the charge here to jettison the football teams, create a basketball-focus Big East, and actively pursue Butler, Xavier, Memphis and a few other teams. It can work with some leadership and confidence. Everyone else is zigging - we should zag and market the hell out of a new Big East that values traditional hoops, alignment of interests, loyalty going forward, rivalries, stability, and sustainability. This NOT the Patriot League or Ivy League. This is the NEW Big East basketball with a lot of high level teams with young and up-and-coming coaches. With the right branding and marketing (and hopefully team success), the league can compete at the top of college basketball. We are turning into pawns of a larger game in which we have no leverage. The sad and inevitable conclusion is that we will be discarded by the football schools. Take control of your destiny Georgetown, and turn a negative into a positive. TODAY!!! I agree with almost 100% of this. I know DFW thinks it will be the end of Gtown basketball, but like Tranghese said yesterday, with the proper vision, we could recapture eastern basketball. The way I look at it, the following schools are options to add on to the current 8 schools: Xavier Butler Dayton Richmond Memphis (FBS football) Temple (Plays FBS football in a different conference than other sports) St. Joes (Good history, not good at bball right now) UMass (Plays FBS football in a different conference than other sports starting 2011) I could add many more, but I think those fit best for a adding basketball programs without diluting talent. I'd prefer adding just Xavier and Butler for a 10 team conference, but if Temple and Memphis were interested and didn't mind playing football in other conferences, I'd love to add them. Of course, they could always leave us later on if their football got good. |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 20, 2011 8:04:13 GMT -5
Rockaway - the writing has been on the wall for years. Why we are not leading the charge and taking headlines to announce the creation of a new and improved Big East Hoops conference is criminal. If we end up sitting on our hands and joining a mid-major, then shame on us. That is unacceptable outcome.
FSO - no intel on Martin - just my personal reaction to the man...I'm not sure I agree that he fields teams in the old-fashioned BE mold.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 20, 2011 8:09:30 GMT -5
If we don't move quickly, as in TODAY, we risk losing teams like Notre Dame, Temple, and Memphis to other conferences. We risk not being compelling enough for Butler to move conferences.
Get'er Duhn!
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 20, 2011 8:27:11 GMT -5
Agreed ranch. The Big 12 has shown there cards and they clearly have no plans for Georgetown. We've got to go with what we have and that's the Big East brand, MSG for the next several years, and a handful of very good basketball schools. We need to goout and secure a few more and we should be fine...but as you mention...this needs to be done now!!
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Sept 20, 2011 8:40:54 GMT -5
Huh? The big 12 is much younger and there would be far less schools from the big 12 in the merger than big east schools so I think it's natural for the big east to be the acquirer. And why would the big 12 even want to merge with a big east that didn't feature the Basketball schools. If they did that, they would just be left with a terrible football conference and a nearly as terrible basketball conference. Would make zero sense. B12 has a lucrative TV deal that runs through the rest of the decade. Big East doesn't b/c we rejected one this past spring. |
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Sept 20, 2011 8:48:11 GMT -5
This is turning into SUCH shenanigans. Georgetown should be leading the charge here to jettison the football teams, create a basketball-focus Big East, and actively pursue Butler, Xavier, Memphis and a few other teams. It can work with some leadership and confidence. Everyone else is zigging - we should zag and market the hell out of a new Big East that values traditional hoops, alignment of interests, loyalty going forward, rivalries, stability, and sustainability. This NOT the Patriot League or Ivy League. This is the NEW Big East basketball with a lot of high level teams with young and up-and-coming coaches. With the right branding and marketing (and hopefully team success), the league can compete at the top of college basketball. We are turning into pawns of a larger game in which we have no leverage. The sad and inevitable conclusion is that we will be discarded by the football schools. Take control of your destiny Georgetown, and turn a negative into a positive. TODAY!!! I agree with almost 100% of this. I know DFW thinks it will be the end of Gtown basketball, but like Tranghese said yesterday, with the proper vision, we could recapture eastern basketball. The way I look at it, the following schools are options to add on to the current 8 schools: Xavier Butler Dayton Richmond Memphis (FBS football) Temple (Plays FBS football in a different conference than other sports) St. Joes (Good history, not good at bball right now) UMass (Plays FBS football in a different conference than other sports starting 2011) I could add many more, but I think those fit best for a adding basketball programs without diluting talent. I'd prefer adding just Xavier and Butler for a 10 team conference, but if Temple and Memphis were interested and didn't mind playing football in other conferences, I'd love to add them. Of course, they could always leave us later on if their football got good. Going to float a few more teams out there: VCU George Mason ODU |
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Sept 20, 2011 8:54:27 GMT -5
I really hope the basketball only schools are in talks with some other networks to broker some kind of TV deal. Without one, a basketball only conference will massively disappointment.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 20, 2011 9:01:59 GMT -5
If we don't move quickly, as in TODAY, we risk losing teams like Notre Dame, Temple, and Memphis to other conferences. We risk not being compelling enough for Butler to move conferences. Get'er Duhn! 1. Notre Dame is in control of its own destiny. The second it decides it wants Big Ten, no agreements or contracts are stopping it. 2. Who, exactly, are we in danger of "losing" Temple too? 3. Why the hell would Memphis join this basketball only league? You do realize they have a D1 football team and have BCS aspirations. |
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Sept 20, 2011 9:19:19 GMT -5
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 20, 2011 9:41:42 GMT -5
vcjack - if you are arguing to stand down and not be proactively putting together a hoops conference, I couldn't disagree more.
We should be courting ND, explaining how they can maintain football independence and joing a GREAT hoops league. Why not? Would you rather not try?
Why would you wait to find out what schools like Memphis and Temple want to do.
I prefer action to passivity at this juncture.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 20, 2011 9:48:42 GMT -5
vcjack - if you are arguing to stand down and not be proactively putting together a hoops conference, I couldn't disagree more. We should be courting ND, explaining how they can maintain football independence and joing a GREAT hoops league. Why not? Would you rather not try? Why would you wait to find out what schools like Memphis and Temple want to do. I prefer action to passivity at this juncture. Its clear from the news coming out that being a part of the Big East-Big XII hybrid is our preference. Like others are saying, while the league you propose would be a great basketball league, the university's athletics program will suffer even if basketball is doing well. Therefore our energy should be there to convince the football schools and ESPN that the basketball schools should be included. If that fails, I guarantee you that Temple, Xavier and the like will come to us. The only way proactively seeking basketball only makes sense is if Comcast is whispering to us that they'll broadcast conference games on NBC. If that's not there, our best hope is through ESPN/football schools |
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