prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 2, 2011 15:35:20 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 2, 2011 16:19:22 GMT -5
I don't follow recruiting as closely as many of you do, but #13 seems way too high, and I think people will be quickly frustrated if they see a #13 on the board and this team really struggles to open the season.
Porter seems to have many of the tools to become Hollis' heir apparent, and Trawick could be an understudy to Clark as well. The other three all seem to be battling for a reserve 4/5 role. If Lubick continues to develop towards a JYD-like 10pt/10reb type forward and Ayegba meets the high expectations fans have placed upon him, what's the timeline for Hopkins, Adams, and Whittington to see more than 5-10 minutes a game, in a system that probably goes no more than 7-8 deep?
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 2, 2011 17:11:51 GMT -5
I don't follow recruiting as closely as many of you do, but #13 seems way too high, and I think people will be quickly frustrated if they see a #13 on the board and this team really struggles to open the season. Porter seems to have many of the tools to become Hollis' heir apparent, and Trawick could be an understudy to Clark as well. The other three all seem to be battling for a reserve 4/5 role. If Lubick continues to develop towards a JYD-like 10pt/10reb type forward and Ayegba meets the high expectations fans have placed upon him, what's the timeline for Hopkins, Adams, and Whittington to see more than 5-10 minutes a game, in a system that probably goes no more than 7-8 deep? You raise good points DFW, but mostly I hope you're right about Moses! If he can be a significant contributor -- this year -- we'll be in for some excitement! The rotation seems pretty open to me -- more than at any time since JT3's first year. The minutes are there for the taking. Who will rise up and grab them?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 2, 2011 21:20:42 GMT -5
If Lubick continues to develop towards a JYD-like 10pt/10reb type forward and Ayegba meets the high expectations fans have placed upon him, what's the timeline for Hopkins, Adams, and Whittington to see more than 5-10 minutes a game, in a system that probably goes no more than 7-8 deep? How about Social Sims meeting the fans' high expectations and also leading the young ones? I expect him to have his Zoubek movement.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 2, 2011 21:22:41 GMT -5
I don't follow recruiting as closely as many of you do, but #13 seems way too high, and I think people will be quickly frustrated if they see a #13 on the board and this team really struggles to open the season. Porter seems to have many of the tools to become Hollis' heir apparent, and Trawick could be an understudy to Clark as well. The other three all seem to be battling for a reserve 4/5 role. If Lubick continues to develop towards a JYD-like 10pt/10reb type forward and Ayegba meets the high expectations fans have placed upon him, what's the timeline for Hopkins, Adams, and Whittington to see more than 5-10 minutes a game, in a system that probably goes no more than 7-8 deep? We are in the top 15 in multiple lists, so I have to think there are reasons that people who rate these things put us there. Granted it may take some time, but the ratings are not necessarily predictive of instant success by recruits.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 3, 2011 0:14:11 GMT -5
Whittington's write up makes me think the guy never saw him play and is assuming he's a PF. Whittington is a SF all the way and with improved handle (although he's got a good one now) he could play some 2G in future. Guy can shoot and off dribble or catch/release.
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Jun 3, 2011 7:12:01 GMT -5
If Lubick continues to develop towards a JYD-like 10pt/10reb type forward and Ayegba meets the high expectations fans have placed upon him, what's the timeline for Hopkins, Adams, and Whittington to see more than 5-10 minutes a game, in a system that probably goes no more than 7-8 deep? How about Social Sims meeting the fans' high expectations and also leading the young ones? I expect him to have his Zoubek movement. Zoubek movement? Is that done in the bathroom? Hopefully JTIII will increase his depth chart and allow more players contribute with a more up-tempo, full court style of play. It's time to adjust to the brand of players he is recruiting.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Jun 3, 2011 8:31:10 GMT -5
If JT3 plays only 7-8 people this year he needs to leave Gtown.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jun 3, 2011 9:45:18 GMT -5
I would think 9-10 comfortably this year bronx.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 3, 2011 9:55:48 GMT -5
As always, it will depend on who develops/produces. Certainly more opportunity this season, but III ain't gonna play guys just to play them - they need to work hard, be ready and earn time. That being said, I think this group will bust their butts(with Markel and Jabril helping to crack the whip) and we will see 9 or 10 guys contributing.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 3, 2011 9:59:35 GMT -5
I would think 9-10 comfortably this year bronx. I hope you are right ID. So many talented young guys -- without a lot of experience should = more playing time for more guys. That would also mean less expertise with the Princeton, offset by more energy/enthusiasm. We'll see. I want to see all these young cats, but especially Jabril and Bubba. And, I am hoping to see Moses getting lots of minutes. No, I am not counting on much from Henry after 3 years of disappointment.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jun 3, 2011 10:25:29 GMT -5
I agree with DFW. I think the ranking is a little inflated because we're bringing in 5. I think only one of them has real star potential, and the other 4 are guys who might have solid careers. I'm not expecting too much instant impact. Happens every year though. At this time of the year we always think the freshmen are going to be great, the guys who were on the team but didn't play last year are going to make a big leap now that they've gotten their feet wet and the returning rotation players are going to step up since it's their team now. Everybody says JTIII would be crazy not to go 10 deep with this kind of depth and he'd be crazy not to run with this kind of athleticism. Then the season starts and we're slowly brought back to reality. The freshmen have weaknesses and are not ready to dominate BE play--despite being in the top 150 in the recruiting rankings . There was a reason why the guys who rode pine last year did so and a summer hasn't cured it, and the returning rotation players may have incrementally improved but did not go from caterpillars to butterflies in the offseason. Our athletes are no better than the athletes at an average high major program. JTIII is plays 8-9 guys like always, and there isn't going to be much full court pressure. I guess part of being a fan is convincing yourself annually that "this year is gonna be different" As I've said before I think this year's lineup is: 1. Starks 2. Clark 3. Thompson 4. Lubick 5. Sims 6. Porter 7. Trawick (or Bowen?) 8. Adams (or Ayegba?) 9. Hopkins (or Whittington?) 8 and 1/2 man rotation. I think DFW was right about minutes for the freshmen. Porter is the 6th man and gets decent run. Trawick is probably the first guard off the bench unless Bowen surprises. And one of Adams/Ayegba is going to have to get some minutes at center out of necessity. But overall the freshmen are not going to be racking up minutes, IMO. At least one or two of the 6 of them is going to be totally outside the rotation, and 1 or 2 others will get minor minutes.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 3, 2011 11:09:20 GMT -5
Rotation will depend on style of play, who plays defense (that has to be emphasis after 3 years of awful defense--both team and individual) and how quickly the young guys pick it up. These FR have advantage of getting early practice/game situation experience with China trip--so they'll have worked together prior to October--which means they should be further ahead when Fall Practice picks up--won't have to waste time with little things, can get into things quicker. Can tinker with lineups, style of play, etc.... on the trip since it doesn't matter in standings and team can bond quicker as well--which is another important factor when having core of team be so young-5 FR, 1 RS FR, and 3 Sophs.
I like this class in terms of skill set/size on perimeter--which has been lacking and in Porter/Whittingon they have finally signed 2 guy that for whatever reason had been ignored previously. Trawick and Adams are physical players and Trawick brings size to backcourt which is also needed. Hopkins is the guy who can be the surprise of not just class but nationally--he's got that type of ability if he commits to the game, but he also could be a guy who is calling GM/GW to see if they have openings after 2 years.
I'm more excited about this team because it'll be a new group. They have chance to develop and improve--which is something I think all Hoya fans would be happy with--a team that doesn't peak in January and is better by end of year then they were early in season or mid-season. If you are looking for a Kentucky type of impact, think it's best to temper that type of expectation. Just enjoy the development and that's how they should be measured.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Jun 3, 2011 11:29:07 GMT -5
I think we need to play 9 or 10 next year because no one is that much better than anyone else. We have 0 stars, and arguably 2 established players on the entire roster. Last year, you could make an argument that a tired Chris > a fresh Markel, that a tired Austin > a fresh Vee, and a tired Julian > a fresh Moses. Does anyone trust that Henry is so much better than Tyler Adams that 8 minutes can't be found for him? Does anyone trust that the Markel/Jason combo is so strong that 12 minutes can't be found for Jabril/Aaron? I certainly don't. You get the sense that III always thinks that it's better to go down with your big guns firing than by throwing everyone out there. I'm not sure we have "big guns" this year. Might as well throw it all against the wall and see what sticks.
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Post by stafford72 on Jun 3, 2011 11:30:31 GMT -5
I have to agree with a lot of what has been said. This team has more potential than most we have had in the past, yet it will require patience and skillful tutoring form the coaching staff. This will be a litmus test for JTIII and his assistants. If either Clark or Trawick exhibit some ability as point guards and Starks plays with confidence and the skill set he had previously, then this team could be a whole lot of fun to follow. Gtown has enough options at the other positions that as the season progresses, if health and a positive outlook allow, this team can compete with any others. Last season proved that no other teams were invincible and all had flaws. This has not changed, especially in the Big East. North Carolina is the only team out there that I think has the potential to be superior to the competition and JTIII has already proven that he can outcoach them. Should be an interesting season.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 3, 2011 11:33:11 GMT -5
Muted expectations but hopes and excitement definitely the way to go with these kids. And as you say, improvement as the year goes on will be key - especially for the next few seasons.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jun 3, 2011 11:43:48 GMT -5
What I like is there will be competition at every position and two deep, except for PG. Jobs will be won and lost and not given. There's a nice mixture of size and skill and athleticism. That makes a difference. If your a true player; you want to be pushed in practice; Otto vs. Nikita is a mismatch in practice athletically and skill wise, but Otto vs. Whitt is more even and should bring out the best in both. Hopkins vs. Nate or Adams or Moses should be spirited and if anyone gets pouty then they can have a seat.
For the first time in a while, there may not be any liabilites on this team, with the possible exception of Henry ( I hope he reads this).
I think China helps to unify and gel this team.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 3, 2011 11:51:39 GMT -5
I agree with chep's analysis as to why there is a good chance we will see 9/10 guys getting significant minutes. I also think that RB is very close as to how the minutes may play out. One thing I would add, though, is that unless Henry has his Zoubek year/moment (as opposed to movement ;D), we may see Henry/Adams/Moses each playing 10-15 minutes a game, unless one of them proves to be clearly behind the others.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 3, 2011 11:52:54 GMT -5
I agree with DFW. I think the ranking is a little inflated because we're bringing in 5. I think only one of them has real star potential, and the other 4 are guys who might have solid careers. I'm not expecting too much instant impact. I don't disagree that volume usually overrates a class, or that people constantly overstate freshman minutes and impact. But only one recruit has star potential? That I actually do have an issue with. Primarily because rankings and evaluations are so erratic that writing off the star potential of someone like Jabril Trawick or Tyler Adams (I assume you meant Porter as your "one") is kind of crazy. Two of our biggest stars were not in the RSCI Top 100. And if you look through college basketball, tons of stars were not highly ranked. I'm not saying they will be stars, but there's a decent amount of potential in this year's class. The height and athleticism are fairly high across the board -- it's the realization that may be less than some of the recruits we've gotten before.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jun 3, 2011 12:26:07 GMT -5
I can't really argue that perspective... When you consider that a lot of the top players in the BE last year were nobodies coming out of high school, then in that sense all 6 of next year's freshman have star potential. But so does every other freshmen in the league, so did guys like Wattad, Nikita, Benimon etc... Sometimes star players come from unexpected places and I don't deny that, and I'd love it if some of our young guys turn out to be those types.
But after reading every article and watching every video on the internet about all of these guys, the only one who looks to me to have the right all-around mix of ingredients to maybe be a 1st team all-BE type some day is Porter. I think Trawick will have a solid career too--maybe a Jessie Sapp-type level of impact (not comparing style of play) in that I think he's likely to be the 1st guard off the bench as a freshman and then maybe move into a starting spot for 3 years. But like Jessie I see him as being more of a solid starter type and not a guy who will be all league. Again, things can and will change. The rest of the bunch, I think have a few more question marks. Each has some good things, each has some weak points. History indicates that 1 or 2 of them will make it 4 years at Georgetown and the rest won't. Time will tell.
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