Where's the spark?

[HoyaTex22]

Let me preface this by saying I've been an ardent fan of JT3 during his tenure and believe we have one of the best collection of young men in the country trying to make us all proud each and every week. But deep down, if I'm being honest with myself, I can't help but think something is and has been missing. I could be wrong, but, while our teams are no doubt very hard working, committed and professional, we consistently seem to lack passion.

I think part of the issue is JT3's teams reflect his demeanor – quiet, measured, deliberate, introverted. There is very little swagger or enthusiasm coming out of the players on the court. This disposition has certainly benefited our teams at times. However, on the flip side, when we need it most, I just don’t see that burning desire on the court to step it up. This has never been more evident than the last three games where I’ve seen absolutely no spark and no visible sense of urgency from the players. While I know this can't be the case, it’s seems like our teams at times play with a fair bit of indifference. Losing Wright was big, but shouldn’t be big enough for us to not even be in the last 3 games, all of which we lost handily without a fight.

Let's put it on the line - JT3 is a SOLID citizen and runs a clean program filled with quality young men. Many programs would be thrilled with this achievement alone. However, is this enough for the Hoya faithful? In a moment of sober honesty, do we believe we can consistently rise to the top of the pack going forward if we continue to see more of the same without material change to system or culture?

[tjm62]

I disagree with all this sentiment. Some people (and players) do not outwardly show tons of emotion. Austin Freeman has ice in his veins -- but is there any doubt he's trying his best? I like the idea of composure winning the day over boneheaded enthusiasm.

With that said, the issue of "spark" and enthusiasm must be separated from the real underlying problem of this team (and last year's) -- consistent defensive performance. To some extent, there is overlap: much (though not all) of defense comes down to high intensity attempts to force turnovers. The same is true for rebounding -- and that has been a problem with us for some time. JTIII has publicly acknowledged this idea -- that ultimately a good chunk of defense comes down to wanting it more. I also believe JTIII has done his best to address the problem (and we have looked better since our early Big East schedule in this department). I agree that some of the problem probably has to do with the demeanor of certain players. Monroe comes to mind in particular -- he did seem to lack a consistent rebounding killer instinct. I think JTIII is well aware of the problem -- and will adjust his recruiting accordingly. Remember -- he is not even on his second full recruiting class, and it will take time for him to find the perfect balance of offense and defense (our offense, particularly stat-wise, has been stellar for years).

At the same time, there are alternative explanations than "lack of spark" to attribute some of these defensive woes. For one, our frontcourt simply isn't particularly good. Julian Vaughn has made progress (and has been maddeningly inconsistent lately), but was never a stud player. Henry, playing behind Greg for two years, has also been slow to develop. Guys like Benimon are simply role players. As a result, we have suffered both in rebounding and other aspects of front-court defense (kenpom ranks us at #307 nationally in block %).

Likewise, let's not kid ourselves as to who we have been playing. We have the NUMBER ONE STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE IN THE COUNTRY. There is not one team that has grinded through a tougher schedule, both in and out of conference. Our poor defensive performances (for "lack of spark") have often kept our opponents to numbers FAR BELOW their typical outputs. Only one team this year, for example, held Cuse to lower points than we did last week (even without Chris).

At the end of the day, we limped to the finish because our team's most important player (for ball handling, organizing, emotional leadership, etc.) went down and we have faced high quality, ranked teams. We have also, for whatever reason, been cold shooting of late. The sky is not falling, and it would be imprudent to start pointing fingers at JTIII or the players who put everything they have into the game. The team means everything to these guys, and anyone who has ever talked to the people involved know it.

Hoya Saxa.

[btb (Account Inactive)]

glidehoyas.blogspot.com/2011/03/huskies-send-hoyas-out-early-in-second.html

[4aks]

Didn't want to comment in the AF thread, because this is sort of an event- driven thing, but Sally Jenkins really chewed him out in her post-game column for, in her words, projecting apathy, lack of urgency ... I couldn't watch the game, but I assume nervousness played into the turnovers , as opposed to apathy and lack of leadership

I see Moses got 3 mins today - was that positive? Or just III sending a message to the other Centers?

[cosmopolitanhoya]

JT3 is a good coach, but everyone agrees that he is a very stubborn coach, who takes too long to make any meaningful adjustments. I dunno what it is, it doesnt really have to do with swagger if you look at Green and Hibbert's company (okay mayb we miss sapp and ewing jr.)

it has to do more with players imo. chris wright is the only one with fire and emotion. however, that does not mean other kids don't try or anything. swagger and bruise does not equate to win. if we are playin princeton offense that relies on BD passes, it requires some high bball IQ, which does not always go along with swagger and bruise.

[gujake]

Yeah, agreed that it has more to do with the players, especially in our case. JTIII is not the type of coach that yells and screams at his players to try to "force" them to play with passion. He's just not, and that isn't going to change. But really, that only goes so far anyway. It is mostly up to the players.

Spark/passion has been missing to some extent since the 08 class graduated imo. Chris is really the only one who consistently shows it. Does this group try hard? Yes, they do. I don't think it's a lack of effort. But do they play with FIRE? For the most part, I don't see that. Patrick Ewing Jr was a great example of someone who played with fire, someone who wanted desperately to win and showed passion on the court at all times. Having JTIII as a coach didn't prevent that at all.

[HoyaTex22]

While not outwardly agreeing, I think we're saying a lot of the same things. Preface - all our players are great and represent the school and themselves exceedingly well. The challenge as I see it is the team almost exclusively falls under the same personality type as our coach. Like most successful organizations, teams are typically well served by having a variety of personalities and dispositions. From a casual observer standpoint, we do not and have not had a lot of type a's on the team (part of which for sure by design due to requirements of the system). This is by no means a novel insight, as jt2, amongst others, is more or less on the record on this topic. while i agree that a coach should not have to yell to motivate, it is still his job to field a team of motivated players on both halves of the court. I'm not saying we need to turn over the apple cart. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that our system must evolve (like all systems). The question is will it or can it or should we expect more of the same save our one outlier season.

[biggmanu]

JTIII should have made a scene when Julian got his 4th foul. When your team is playing that lackluster, getting tossed could have sparked the team. It couldn't have hurt as we had nothing to lose at that point.

[RDF]

Coach can't motivate guys to play hard--that should be expected and all he can do is take away their playing time. He's got to be who he is as a person-if he changes, that makes guys wonder what is going on more then anything. He CAN hire a "bad cop" though and a guy who has free reign to light into them--and that is what I'd suggest since III is very laid back on sideline.

Emotion is something players are allowed to show-if they want. '07 team played with a lot-as did '08 team. Chris Wright plays with it. Lubick shows it. Clark will occasionally.

Think some don't understand difference between emotion and playing hard. Playing hard has nothing to do with flexing, acting like a jackass, smiling, etc....it has to do with being mentally focused/ready to play, and leaving it all on court. When other team is diving on the ground and you see Hoyas bending at waist--is that happening? Some say it is, I say that is not. Different strokes for different folks-but then again some prefer Sam over Arnold and I was always a Mr. D guy--so who knows?

[SFHoya99]

Mar 10, 2011 11:15:04 GMT -5 RDF said:

Coach can't motivate guys to play hard--that should be expected and all he can do is take away their playing time. He's got to be who he is as a person-if he changes, that makes guys wonder what is going on more then anything. He CAN hire a "bad cop" though and a guy who has free reign to light into them--and that is what I'd suggest since III is very laid back on sideline.

Emotion is something players are allowed to show-if they want. '07 team played with a lot-as did '08 team. Chris Wright plays with it. Lubick shows it. Clark will occasionally.

Think some don't understand difference between emotion and playing hard. Playing hard has nothing to do with flexing, acting like a clown, smiling, etc....it has to do with being mentally focused/ready to play, and leaving it all on court. When other team is diving on the ground and you see Hoyas bending at waist--is that happening? Some say it is, I say that is not. Different strokes for different folks-but then again some prefer Sam over Arnold and I was always a Mr. D guy--so who knows?

+1.

[OldHoyafan]

Mar 10, 2011 1:03:32 GMT -5 gujake said:

Yeah, agreed that it has more to do with the players, especially in our case. JTIII is not the type of coach that yells and screams at his players to try to "force" them to play with passion. He's just not, and that isn't going to change. But really, that only goes so far anyway. It is mostly up to the players.

Spark/passion has been missing to some extent since the 08 class graduated imo. Chris is really the only one who consistently shows it. Does this group try hard? Yes, they do. I don't think it's a lack of effort. But do they play with FIRE? For the most part, I don't see that. Patrick Ewing Jr was a great example of someone who played with fire, someone who wanted desperately to win and showed passion on the court at all times. Having JTIII as a coach didn't prevent that at all.

That is the point, its the size of the fight in the dog, not the size of the dog in the fight. The player has to have it in him for it to come out. Mournings comments about JT3 doing a great job with what he has and that he was glad to see the team getting more talent in the future(paraphrazing) are more enlightning after Wrights injury. The only player ,like Kemba Walker, on this team that could singlehandedly carry this team to any victory over a good or average team is Wright. Wright is not as talented as Walker, but if he got hot from the 3pt line he could singlehandedly carry this team to victory. We thought Freeman could do that but we know now that he can't. Clark shows spark at times but also shows just as much "hangdogged" look also after he gets ball stripped or shot blocked, like he is accepteing the inevitable that he is just not as good as the opposing player. Thompson seems to want to take the pressure shot but just does not have the all round game to do it. Starks seems to have that spark but from the last 2 games is either not ready to do show it or has been scared into shyness to keep from being pulled from game . Sanford is just like Thompson, seems to want to do it but game is not rounded enough yet to do it. Just have to wait until the "junkyard dogs" get here.

[HoyaTex22]

I don't think people are talking about emotion. People are talking about personality traits, assertiveness, and a visible demonstration on the court of passion to do whatever it takes. This point is very different than running around like a maniac drinking tiger blood. Its about Winning.

[OldHoyafan]

And I am not talking about drinking "tiger blood" but having the basketball IQ and heart to win. The Duke players pounding their hands on the floor to indicate they were ready to play great defense, was a vivible demonstration but it did not mean jack when players that could play went right around them. This team does not need outward displays of emotion, Henry and Lubick give a lot of that. This team needs "ballers".

[SFHoya99]

So, is it about winning or is it about a visible demonstration of passion? Michael Jordan won, but most of his passion was not visible. Most of Kobe Bryant's passion is not visible. Tim Duncan's passion is not visible.

Why is it necessary to win again? And why does this only come up in losses? My theory: because it's not about winning, it's about fans whining about losing and immediately blaming it on effort.

[gujake]

SF - Agreed with your point about "visible passion" but a little unclear on your stance re: our current level of effort. You seem to agree with RDF's post above saying that we have not been leaving it all on the court, but you also seem to be criticizing fans for placing blame on lack of effort.

To me, guys like MJ/Kobe may not show "visible" passion in that they are not pounding their chest or slapping the floor... but I always thought their passion was visible in the sense that you can see it in the way they play. They get that look of complete and utter focus, like there is no way I am letting you beat me. They dive on the ground for loose balls. They give as much effort on defense as they do on offense. They leave it all out on the floor.

[wiskyandm]

Mar 10, 2011 15:12:27 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

So, is it about winning or is it about a visible demonstration of passion? Michael Jordan won, but most of his passion was not visible. Most of Kobe Bryant's passion is not visible. Tim Duncan's passion is not visible.

Why is it necessary to win again? And why does this only come up in losses? My theory: because it's not about winning, it's about fans whining about losing and immediately blaming it on effort.

I think it's about slightly more than just whining after a loss. I have argued in other forums for years that JT3 is a very good coach with one massive flaw - he's not a very good motivator.

If the passion and leadership doesn't come through a player on the floor, it doesn't come at all.

That doesn't invalidate him as a coach. We all have professional strengths and weaknesses. Those who excel in the business world don't hide from those weaknesses, they determine them and address them by seeking out complimentary pieces.

To that end, I have also argued for years that JT3 should go out and hire an alter ego - a screaming, fire-breathing dragon to play good cop to his bad and fire up the troops. It's either that or start recruiting more intense kids.

Acting like we're not getting beaten and beaten badly in the intensity category is ludicrous, SF. Go back and watch the UConn tape again (if you have the stomach) and count the 50-50 balls and the percentage we came away with. I did. There were around 85 of those instances, and we won 17. That's pathetic. And it's not just a case of inferior athleticism, though I would certainly concur that our skill-over-athleticism recruiting mandate isn't really working either.

Year after year under JT3 we get destroyed on the glass and lose the TO margin battle de facto due to a combination of these two factors. That's two awful big concessions to make as a matter of course before the ball ever goes up.

Nobody wants Joe Touomo making a fool of himself by slapping the court. We all want meaningful, well-directed intensity. But given that this program was largely built on Pops' iron-clad mandate that by God we would outhustle and outwork every team we played, I think all of us know a lack of that level of intensity when we see it.

Once again, I'm not advocating regime change. I think JT3 does many things very well as a coach. I don't think infusing his guys with passion is one of them. And, of course, JT3 does have to be very careful exactly who he hires to play the bad cop role. Coach Burke had a nasty habit of going over the top, which is one of the reasons he is no longer part of the team. Coach Broadus had a higher quotient of positive intensity, and he's closer to I think what the team needs right now.

But don't kid yourself, there is more broken with this program right now than our PG's left hand.

[smittydakid]

JT3 great person, average coach. He's still learning and will get better. His in-game adjustments are minimal at best. Some other coaches will there team during the tournament. We don't even press against ohio u, although were down 17. I support JT3 because G-town my favorite team but a lot coaches are better.

[tjm62]

Mar 10, 2011 18:02:35 GMT -5 smittydakid said:

JT3 great person, average coach. He's still learning and will get better. His in-game adjustments are minimal at best. Some other coaches will there team during the tournament. We don't even press against ohio u, although were down 17. I support JT3 because G-town my favorite team but a lot coaches are better.

You'd be surprised how similar sentiments are from fans of teams with "great coaches" when the program experiences a down year or two.

[the_way]

passion is there, but the talent isn't what it used to be.

the talent we have isn't bad, but its just not what our Final Four and Sweet Sixteen teams were under JTIII.

You want your coach to be composed.

Coach III is not only composed, but he looks and acts professional on the sideline. He represents the university well, on the court and off it. He is a tremendous class act.

Outward expression is overrated. Its about results.

These past 4 "down" years of JTIII have consisted of a Big East Regular season title, two Big East tournament championship game appearances, and 3 NCAA tournament appearances.

Everybody wants to go to he Final Four every year.

People fail to realize how hard that is. Its really hard to get there.

Shoot, Pops had some great teams that didn't make it to the Final Four (88-89, 95-96, 79-80).

Its really hard.

JTIII has done a good job. He has made some mistakes. But he is the right guy for us. You aren't going to get a better coach to come here. We have a steal in JTIII.

Just recruit a little better. Thats all. JTIII can stay cool like a jazz player all he wants.

[RDF]

People want to see a team that leaves it all on the court and SHOWS they care by their effort--not talking about it/saying right things.

This team is a group of guys who look as if it's a violation to get "dirty". They don't dive on the court, they don't sell out to get loose balls, they dont' hustle down the court each possession and if you want to take some plays off in a season-do it in a blowout--not when it's the BET.

The accusations/assumptions of the expectations of fans is not even close. Is it too much to ask to see players dive after the ball--when other team is--or going after the ball/contesting rebounds/shots? Hustle requires ZERO talent--it requires effort and I'm not seeing that desperation from this team.

As for Kobe Bryant- He might not show a lot of emotion--but he plays with controlled rage. He has a desperate want to win a game--and that is special. Special players care about winning and will do anything it takes to win--others TALK about what it takes/and that is difference.