TC
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Post by TC on Mar 5, 2011 19:23:37 GMT -5
You guys are a bunch of ridiculous bandwagon fans.
Lose your Senior point guard who is the absolute heart of your team and the catalyst of all hustle and plays 40 minutes, replace him with a freshman and this is what you get. It has nothing to do with recruiting, it has nothing to do with coaching, it has to do with a tragic injury to an absolutely integral and irreplaceable part of the team, and that's that.
At the end of the Esherick era, this is the sort of year I would have prayed for. Not expected, but prayed for. Guaranteed trip to the tournament, 20 wins, one of the toughest schedules in the entire nation - what is there to be ashamed of in any of this?
Proud of this team and JT3 is easily a top 5 coach in my book.
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superan
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Post by superan on Mar 5, 2011 19:32:27 GMT -5
Here's hoping for a new 8 game win streak to follow a 1-4 stretch!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 5, 2011 19:32:58 GMT -5
You guys are a bunch of ridiculous bandwagon fans. Lose your Senior point guard who is the absolute heart of your team and the catalyst of all hustle and plays 40 minutes, replace him with a freshman and this is what you get. It has nothing to do with recruiting, it has nothing to do with coaching, it has to do with a tragic injury to an absolutely integral and irreplaceable part of the team, and that's that. At the end of the Esherick era, this is the sort of year I would have prayed for. Not expected, but prayed for. Guaranteed trip to the tournament, 20 wins, one of the toughest schedules in the entire nation - what is there to be ashamed of in any of this? Proud of this team and JT3 is easily a top 5 coach in my book. TC, while I agree that the season is not the disappointment and lost cause some think, I also know that other teams lose "integral" parts but don't go into the tailspin that has hit us. Let's be honest, our bench is relatively insubstantial, and therefore it is virtually impossible for us to overcome the loss of our point guard. That could certainly be seen as a recruiting shortcoming. Hopefully one that is overcome in the future, but for now it leaves us almost weaponless.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 5, 2011 19:39:58 GMT -5
TC, while I agree that the season is not the disappointment and lost cause some think, I also know that other teams lose "integral" parts but don't go into the tailspin that has hit us. Name one. Seriously - name one standout Senior PG who got injured in late February whose team didn't spiral. If this happens in September it's a different story. Throwing Markel into the fire in the beginning of March is completely different and it's no way to judge a freshman.
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Post by formerbearcat on Mar 5, 2011 20:10:44 GMT -5
I feel your pain.
Hopefully the Hoyas can right the ship.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Mar 5, 2011 20:17:01 GMT -5
Name one. Seriously - name one standout Senior PG who got injured in late February whose team didn't spiral. If this happens in September it's a different story. Throwing Markel into the fire in the beginning of March is completely different and it's no way to judge a freshman. Your criteria is a little narrow, don't you think? Ashton Gibbs went down in February as an upperclass standout leader... and Pitt did fine. Fact is, if you are an elite team and one of your best players goes down, you are able to recover. Guys step up. We don't have enough depth to do that. We're not quite an elite team even with everyone healthy. Very good, yes. Elite, no. I think FF's post is pretty spot-on. Yes, I agree that this isn't a *bad* season and I agree people are overly critical of last year... I think the frustration from a lot of fans is that we want to be more than "very good"... we want to be a team that contends for championships. That is what III wants and has stated. In order to do that, we need to recruit better. If you are a championship caliber team, you don't go into a tailspin when one guy goes down... maybe you get hurt - but you don't completely fall apart.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 5, 2011 20:30:18 GMT -5
Your criteria is a little narrow, don't you think? Ashton Gibbs went down in February as an upperclass standout leader... and Pitt did fine. They didn't replace him with a freshman. And yes my criteria is narrow - because this is a uniquely terrible freak occurrence. Again, we are just a few years removed between people making arguments on this board that we'd be better off if the Big East imploded and we got forced into the Patriot League for basketball. That we couldn't expect more than a infrequent tournament appearance due to our facilities. If you're questioning the program - which you are - you obviously don't understand the situation we were in when they took over and how far this staff has blown any and all expectations away.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 5, 2011 20:43:04 GMT -5
We all know how far down the program sunk by the end of the Esherick years. We all know that the program is far better off now. But it's not perfect. There are still improvements to be made. Maybe there just happens to be a recruiting blip right now that has left us shorthanded because of one injury. But it is a little too simplistic to attribute everything to Chris's injury without looking at what we have left without him. And NO ONE lives and dies with the Hoyas more than I do.
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Post by wahoohoya on Mar 5, 2011 20:45:22 GMT -5
Agree with posters that recruiting is the problem not coachng. We don't have the athletes and never developed the bench such that one injury makes us noncompetitive. We need top 20 players and are getting 80-100 talent. I don't buy the excuses that it is hard for Georgetown to recruit. How did St. Johns get one of the top 5 classes. Let's hope Trawrick can be a surprise next year the thought of more small ball with Clark and Starks as starting guards does not give me a lot of confidence. And never developed the bench - isn't that on the coaching? Again, not saying that recruiting isn't a problem - we do need more athletic players. But it's hard to argue that III has achieved all he could have with this group. Guys aren't developing as you would expect - and in some cases are regressing. That is all on the coaching.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Mar 5, 2011 20:49:57 GMT -5
I'm "questioning the program"?! Being critical of one specific part of the program in recent time is not questioning the program on the whole. I am a HUGE III fan and I don't want him going anywhere.
And cut out this "you obviously don't understand" BS. I understand the amazing job he has done and how far he has taken the program. So do most other Hoya fans who are critical once in a while.
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Mar 5, 2011 20:49:59 GMT -5
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Mar 5, 2011 20:56:14 GMT -5
Thank goodness for TC, bringing some much needed sanity to a conversation dominated by deleted Bronxie, HoyaHeaven, HoyaSouth and SkyHoya.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 5, 2011 21:01:33 GMT -5
Madge put your head back under your rock.....all is well...keep telling yourself that
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 5, 2011 21:11:43 GMT -5
You guys are a bunch of ridiculous bandwagon fans. Lose your Senior point guard who is the absolute heart of your team and the catalyst of all hustle and plays 40 minutes, replace him with a freshman and this is what you get. It has nothing to do with recruiting, it has nothing to do with coaching, it has to do with a tragic injury to an absolutely integral and irreplaceable part of the team, and that's that. At the end of the Esherick era, this is the sort of year I would have prayed for. Not expected, but prayed for. Guaranteed trip to the tournament, 20 wins, one of the toughest schedules in the entire nation - what is there to be ashamed of in any of this? Proud of this team and JT3 is easily a top 5 coach in my book. Your 100 percent right but really it doesnt mean chit if we dont make some noise in the tournament. If we go one and done this season really is a failure.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 5, 2011 21:33:17 GMT -5
Madge put your head back under your rock.....all is well...keep telling yourself that If you guys are going to act like you're entitled to a Final Four every year and anything less is a failure and that recruiting is a problem because we can't replace an injured Senior PG who was in the top 10 for his position, you might as well be rooting for Duke. Go get a pair of blue pom poms.
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Post by btb (Account Inactive) on Mar 5, 2011 21:40:15 GMT -5
If you wanna see how a point runs his team and makes everyone better look at UNC's Kendall Marshall, and he's from the DMV...
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Mar 5, 2011 21:41:42 GMT -5
bottom line, the vast majority of the alumni don't care enough to contribute $$$ to fullfill the dreams of many of the board members. it's hard torecruit top level ATHLETES without facilities that are current and new . Without the financial support, you don't get the level of quality staff support needed to bring out the best in what we recruit.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 5, 2011 21:46:05 GMT -5
Behindthebench,
I will agree with you with that. I always thought Marshall was a bit overrated, but dude can hoop. Of course he's passing the ball to no less than five future NBA guys, but.......
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 5, 2011 21:48:12 GMT -5
excuses excuses....we are located in a recruiting brothel....we should have better players
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 5, 2011 21:50:44 GMT -5
Madge put your head back under your rock.....all is well...keep telling yourself that If you guys are going to act like you're entitled to a Final Four every year and anything less is a failure and that recruiting is a problem because we can't replace an injured Senior PG who was in the top 10 for his position, you might as well be rooting for Duke. Go get a pair of blue pom poms. Honestly, who remembers the 8th best team in the conference even if they win 20 plus games if you dont make noise in the tournament. For me and I love the hoyas, if we go one and done this year its just not good enough. Last year one and done, year before NIT one and done, and year before second round loss to davidson is unacceptable. Maybe its becuase im a Yankee fan and I expect my team to reload or fix whats broken if the team doesnt make it to the world series. JT3 has to reload, and recruit some top talent. To me 23 wins and one and done is just as bad as 17 wins and being an NIT team...
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