thebin
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Jan 31, 2011 9:44:08 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jan 31, 2011 9:44:08 GMT -5
I found these pics of MSF reading an article on the Super Bowl capacity of Jonestown. It occurs to me these are by far the best pics I've seen of the lowly MSF and one of these three should be used on the program/press book. With all of the MSF delays and the University's cash problems, at this point is it time to consider focusing on upgrading to a slightly bigger/nicer "chair" bleacher? One not terribly unlike the one we have now with a nice new press box that isn't hot enough to almost kill the radio guys during September games? Something about our current accumulation of high school press boxes not even being centered has always been the icing on the crap-stadium-cake to me. But.....I'm a beaten man like I said. Rentable bleachers have improved a lot in the last 10 years. (Pathetic, I know.) What do you think? Should we just concentrate on upgrading the bleachers into something a bit bigger and nicer rather than the seemingly 25 year-plan that our elite university is undergoing to build a high school-sized stadium? This tidbit from the seating company was interesting to me: "Georgetown had the idea in motion to build a multi purpose stadium on campus and initially thought that their need would be for a two season rental of our Ultimate seating. When the larger project stalled, the University then purchased the Ultimate bench seating system (with BleaChair XL) and the three press boxes with the intent to move the entire modular system to various sports fields on campus once the new stadium is built. " Where were we going to put them exactly? Visitor's side? www.seatingsolutions.com/rental/clients/georgetown-university
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DFW HOYA
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Jan 31, 2011 12:11:21 GMT -5
Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 31, 2011 12:11:21 GMT -5
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Jan 31, 2011 13:52:33 GMT -5
Post by strummer8526 on Jan 31, 2011 13:52:33 GMT -5
Don't you know how strapped for resources Georgetown is? We can't compete with a powerhouse like Kennesaw State University!
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kchoya
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Jan 31, 2011 14:01:41 GMT -5
Post by kchoya on Jan 31, 2011 14:01:41 GMT -5
When the larger project stalled, the University then purchased the Ultimate bench seating system (with BleaChair XL) and the three press boxes with the intent to move the entire modular system to various sports fields on campus once the new stadium is built in 2027.
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DFW HOYA
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Jan 31, 2011 15:52:40 GMT -5
Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 31, 2011 15:52:40 GMT -5
Don't you know how strapped for resources Georgetown is? We can't compete with a powerhouse like Kennesaw State University! KSU Stadium- Quick Facts Seating: 8,300 seats, including 572 club seats and and 132 patio seats Hospitality suites: 12 Construction cost: $16.5 million Guess I've got a new item for the blog... www.ksuowls.com/sports/2009/12/11/WSOC_1211094142.aspx?
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kchoya
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Jan 31, 2011 16:43:43 GMT -5
Post by kchoya on Jan 31, 2011 16:43:43 GMT -5
BleaChair Maximus?
BleaChair XL?
Really?
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thebin
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Jan 31, 2011 17:52:49 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jan 31, 2011 17:52:49 GMT -5
Don't you know how strapped for resources Georgetown is? We can't compete with a powerhouse like Kennesaw State University! Its actually worse than that. This isn't Kennesaw State's football stadium. It isn't even their soccer stadium. It's only their women's soccer stadium.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 1, 2011 1:02:10 GMT -5
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 1, 2011 2:00:25 GMT -5
I'm just confused why they would have a retractable roof on the thing in the middle of LA...El Nino?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Feb 1, 2011 8:11:20 GMT -5
It is pretty clear to me that LA will have a franchise and have one soon. It should be the Jags. But word is now it may well be the Chargers, Raiders or Vikes as well. Of those four, the Chargers would be the worst one to move to fill a huge gap in Southern California. Taking football from San Diego to put in 2 hours north in LA would solve nothing. Southern California with its 24 million people deserves to have more than one franchise to Missouri's two. (population 6 million) San Diego is itself a highly deserving NFL market with some 3 million people and the second largest city on the west coast (more populous than San Fran or Seattle).
The Vikings are too popular in that area of the country to move. I could deal with the Raiders if its not the Jags. Oakland plays in a crap baseball stadium and that urban area already has the 49ers and obviously the Raiders already have LA history. But I'll be tickeded if its the Chargers.
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eb59
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Feb 1, 2011 13:05:08 GMT -5
Post by eb59 on Feb 1, 2011 13:05:08 GMT -5
I am all for this idea, I don't think that the bleachers with seat backs look bad or temporary, if they are done right. That is to say, if they are expansive and provide a considerable amount of seating - 10k to 15k AND have concrete permanent structures for the Press Box, Locker Rooms and Ticket Office & Vending Areas. Especially, if everything blended into the already built brick structures around the MSF and there was a nice banked grass seating area behind the North End Zone that could be used for added seating and housed a Real Scoreboard! Actually, since we are likely going to build a new Athletic Training Facility, it would make sense that we do not need space in the football stadium for Coach's offices, weight room, etc. These could and likely should go into the new Basketball / Training Facility. Hence making bleachers, with some permanent adornments like you see in the Kennesaw & Hofstra Football stadiums a really cost effective and from my perspective - attractive option. Here are a couple of links to a HS stadium here in Austin, TX – it is two sided but the pics show only the home team side. It has a concrete foundation with bleachers, but due to the two story build it looks great in person. www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.keepeanesinformed.com/tbhs_Chaparral.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.keepeanesinformed.com/stadium.htm&h=262&w=400&sz=20&tbnid=tl0HX8GBlJDlEM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3DChaparral%2BStadium%2Bpics&zoom=1&q=Chaparral+Stadium+pics&usg=__prw1el51qqR3P0bav7JSIqxo2Vg=&sa=X&ei=1EZITYuvJo-q8Aai0q2yBg&ved=0CCUQ9QEwAgimg42.imageshack.us/i/chaparralstadium5lc.jpg/sr=1www.texasmonthly.com/2005-09-01/stadiums/15_austin.jpg
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Feb 1, 2011 14:14:42 GMT -5
Post by HometownHoya on Feb 1, 2011 14:14:42 GMT -5
I am all for this idea, I don't think that the bleachers with seat backs look bad or temporary, if they are done right. That is to say, if they are expansive and provide a considerable amount of seating - 10k to 15k AND have concrete permanent structures for the Press Box, Locker Rooms and Ticket Office & Vending Areas. Especially, if everything blended into the already built brick structures around the MSF and there was a nice banked grass seating area behind the North End Zone that could be used for added seating and housed a Real Scoreboard! Actually, since we are likely going to build a new Athletic Training Facility, it would make sense that we do not need space in the football stadium for Coach's offices, weight room, etc. These could and likely should go into the new Basketball / Training Facility. Hence making bleachers, with some permanent adornments like you see in the Kennesaw & Hofstra Football stadiums a really cost effective and from my perspective - attractive option. img42.imageshack.us/i/chaparralstadium5lc.jpg/sr=1I think that is a great idea EB...hopefully the administration is thinking along this path (or any path that makes MSF better). Although, all I think of when I see that scoreboard photo is how badly I don't want to be sponsored by Eastern's Motors
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thebin
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Feb 1, 2011 14:59:54 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Feb 1, 2011 14:59:54 GMT -5
I am all for this idea, I don't think that the bleachers with seat backs look bad or temporary, if they are done right. That is to say, if they are expansive and provide a considerable amount of seating - 10k to 15k AND have concrete permanent structures for the Press Box, Locker Rooms and Ticket Office & Vending Areas. Especially, if everything blended into the already built brick structures around the MSF and there was a nice banked grass seating area behind the North End Zone that could be used for added seating and housed a Real Scoreboard! Actually, since we are likely going to build a new Athletic Training Facility, it would make sense that we do not need space in the football stadium for Coach's offices, weight room, etc. These could and likely should go into the new Basketball / Training Facility. Hence making bleachers, with some permanent adornments like you see in the Kennesaw & Hofstra Football stadiums a really cost effective and from my perspective - attractive option. Here are a couple of links to a HS stadium here in Austin, TX – it is two sided but the pics show only the home team side. It has a concrete foundation with bleachers, but due to the two story build it looks great in person. www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.keepeanesinformed.com/tbhs_Chaparral.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.keepeanesinformed.com/stadium.htm&h=262&w=400&sz=20&tbnid=tl0HX8GBlJDlEM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3DChaparral%2BStadium%2Bpics&zoom=1&q=Chaparral+Stadium+pics&usg=__prw1el51qqR3P0bav7JSIqxo2Vg=&sa=X&ei=1EZITYuvJo-q8Aai0q2yBg&ved=0CCUQ9QEwAgimg42.imageshack.us/i/chaparralstadium5lc.jpg/sr=1www.texasmonthly.com/2005-09-01/stadiums/15_austin.jpgI disagree only on your capacity estimates, I think that is way too high. 15k would look more or less empty for just about every game. (Because it would be.) Given the very uncertain future of the Patriot league, I think we could reasonably shoot for a 5k-8K stadium tops. Something a lot nicer and more permanent looking and befitting the university in general. I'm picturing brick walls encompassing the bleachers, maybe covered in creeping ivy...you get the picture. Something that says to recruits that the program has been around for a century and isn't going anywhere. Right now the MSF says "we've been thinking about establishing a program here for a while now but its not going so well." I have to think you could do that for a few million rather than 25. I mean we're not talking just about football here either- we're talking about a few million bucks to upgrade what is a pretty significant chunk of campus from something that is kind of embarassing looking to something worthy of the space it is taking up on a campus that has in so many other ways radically improved over the last 10 years. Certainly the lacrosse program should be able to get on board with a 5-8k stadium and the university in general for large convocations, graduations, NCAA playoffs in other sports, etc. Because let's face it, it's tough to make any kind of commitment to the Patriot league right now- were going to need partners in the university. Speaking of the Patriot league, only one league game a year (the oldest rivalry in the nation in Lehigh-Lafayette) has any use for a 15K stadium. It would be a bit foolish I think to size a stadium to a statistical outlier attendance-wise for two of the more established football programs/traditions in a league we struggle to compete in.
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eb59
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Feb 1, 2011 15:29:10 GMT -5
Post by eb59 on Feb 1, 2011 15:29:10 GMT -5
From my perspective, 5k seats for a University Stadium is just too small and if you’re going to spend money to do something, you ought to do it right. Maybe the right number is 10k with a banked grass area in the North End Zone for to give it more of a horse shoe feel. Still I like your idea for the brick walls encompassing the bleachers - this would look completely permanent and could not possibly cost $25m.
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thebin
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Feb 1, 2011 15:38:34 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Feb 1, 2011 15:38:34 GMT -5
You say "if you’re going to spend money to do something, you ought to do it right." That seems to be the principle we were operating under the last 10 years plus....that lead to us buying our "temporary" bleachers that we had rented when we realized we couldn't affort to "do it right."
The idea here is that many of us are sick of waiting 25 years to "do it right." (emphasis on "waiting.") "Doing it right" seems to involve a projected budget that is a petty much a non-starter at Gtown. Its never actually going to get paid for and done or so we must conclude at this point. What I'm proposing in this thread instead, and what you said you were "all for", is very much a compromise solution for the purposes of actually getting it done in a year or two rather than maybe never. That means not building something that is 4 times our average attendance. Let's start with double avg attendance...and if the need arises we can always add more later to the Visitor's side. For this reason I would suggest investing just about everything in one 5 or 6K "home side" rather than two very small sides.
There is something else too.... is there is no evidence that we could regularly get 10K in fans to games and even if there was the demand....AND..... there's the problem of the surrounding infrastructure. Where are these people coming from? How are they getting there? There is just about zero room for them to drive and park. Not walking distance to Metro. That's a big problem. But frankly the biggest roblem to me is that even if we built it that it would become a white elephant that was always empty. I do like and agree with the idea of a sloped lawn in north endzone to create a horseshoe effect. That gives you a 2-3K overflow area in the event you ever do have the demand but without looking terrible when empty. Also, the surrounding campus buildings create an echo chamber of sorts and will help make it the loudest 5-8K stadium you could imagine which is a bonus.
Don't underestimate how much more expensive it is to build anything in DC as oppossed to say Texas. If you built a $5mm stadium in suburban Dallas on campus in Gtown, I'd say it's going to cost you at least $10MM by the time you cut the ribbon. So while I think you probably could create a stadium atmosphere for 5K or so with premium chair bleachers and brick walls, etc for a few million, don't be so sure that doubling the size of the stadium or more to 10-15K won't make the whole thing impossible in a budget that makes it feasible. We haven't even got into how much the local ANC governing body would do anything in its power to stop a 10K stadium.
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eb59
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Feb 1, 2011 15:55:08 GMT -5
Post by eb59 on Feb 1, 2011 15:55:08 GMT -5
I suppose my thinking is that if the school went the metal bleacher route, the cost would not be too significantly more expensive to go from 5k to 10k, so why not do it and have something in the middle of the campus that looks as if it belongs at a university as opposed to something that is smaller than a lot of HS stadiums these days.
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thebin
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Feb 1, 2011 15:59:18 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Feb 1, 2011 15:59:18 GMT -5
I've been on this board supporting the notion that we need a stadium that "looks like it belongs to a university" for more than a decade. The problem is that simply making it much bigger doesn't do that. 10K capacity (even ignoring the fact that it will be empty all the time) does not actually accomplish university-ness. Making it collegiate to me means making it much nicer rather than much bigger. Even at 10k it will be smaller than a lot of HS stadiums. That's picking the wrong battle, one that we can't win. Lots of HS stadiums hold 10K, but none in this area anyway have stadium molded seating with brick walls, wrought iron, etc. The point is to make it much nicer (and a little bigger) rather than just much bigger. If for no other reason, because there is no demand or sufficient parking to make it much bigger. But beyond that, I don't want simple cheap metal bleachers....I want the really nice bleachers that look like actual stadium seating- that not even nice high schools in this part of the country have. Believe me, when you get the really high end pre-fab stadiums seating, there is a huge price difference when you double the capacity. Its just common sense that when you upgrade your materials considerably, you can't just expect the price to be about the same from 5 units of product to 10 units instead.
We don't really need a much bigger stadium. But we do need a much nicer stadium. Not just the football team. The university needs something less embarassing in the heart of campus. A small but very nice stadium can do that. A still small but bigger rack of empty metal bleachers doesn't do that at all....we would just replace one pathetic college stadium with a bigger and emptier pathetic college stadium.
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eb59
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Feb 1, 2011 16:28:09 GMT -5
Post by eb59 on Feb 1, 2011 16:28:09 GMT -5
I get your points, they are valid - but I want to be clear - I am not arguing for a 10k seat all metal bleacher stadium – a la, High School. I do not expect Gtown to replace an eye-sore with a larger eye-sore. I want the nice seats and architecture and aesthetics and everything else the I have proposed in some of my earlier posts, including your addition of the brick encasement to hide the under-structure of the bleachers. I want quality along with just a bit more quantity than you think is practical. No big deal, I suppose our vision and goals are the same, but you would be satisfied with 5k and I want the same look and feel, but just a bit larger. Regardless, in either option we are proposing prefab metal bleaches with seats attached, which have to be way less expensive than pouring concrete for the entire stadium as I believe has been the basis for the architectural plans in the past - regardless of size. To me if the school went 5k or 10k pre-fab, either way would be an investment in the millions and not in the tens of millions, so I hope that they consider it and do it – but I’m not going to hold my breath as this is a fun theoretical discussion but not likely to happen either way any time soon.
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thebin
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Feb 1, 2011 16:45:31 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Feb 1, 2011 16:45:31 GMT -5
Unfortunately all stadium talk is theoretical here.
My guess on this is no more informed than yours, but my presumption is that pre-fab bleachers abruptly stop being a highly cost effective substitute for pouring concrete when they have to meet code for larger crowds and you need to attach twice as many seats , etc. I think the current homestands would make a perfect away stand to boot.
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eb59
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Feb 1, 2011 17:00:35 GMT -5
Post by eb59 on Feb 1, 2011 17:00:35 GMT -5
Does anyone have any clue what the school paid Seating Solutions for the 2,500 seats + 3 Temp Press Boxes that currently make up the Gtown FB field?
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