How to fix the hoyas

[richfame]

After the great play durning our out of conference schedule we all had high hopes of being a national contender and a top ten team throughout the year. So what went wrong? How can this team improve and become that dangerous final four team we thought they were back in november..

1. Georgetown's best player has to get a bit more selfish. As Austin Freeman goes so does the hoyas. Austin should not just be a three point specialist. I hate when hes forced to take long fade away threes. Austin can drive hes deceptively fast and can finish. When Austin is not scoring and seems to be getting down on him self his mood can devestate the team.

2. Chris wright has to continue to be a game manager and limit the turnovers. Im sorry he cant launch a ton of threes, nor can he put his head down and be bad chris and create turnovers. When the shot is there, take it. When the drive and kick is there do it. If he cant be this type of player we have to put Markel in ASAP.

3. For the love of God Press more and get more active in the half court D. Ive watched many old games on SNY Classics and we are up in everyones grill with determination. We need to cause turnovers because it leads to easy buckets we can desperately use.

4. Roster moves:
1. Sit Benemon, give him the Vee Treatment. Lubick gets all his minutes.
2. For the love of God play Vee. We need him for defense if were going to amp the pressure up. Hes also far from a liability on offense. I dont get why coach wont play this guy.
3. As much as we hate it Vaughn must continue to get his minutes. He has so much potential. When he makes teh quick move great, if its not there kick it out. The problem is he has a passive personality and hes inconsistant. I think this is what bothers fellow hoya talkers.

I think the above mentioned can help the hoyas get back on track, but ultimatley its up to the players. They have to bring it every night. Games against Seaton Hall, and Ruters cant be nailbiters, even St Johns we should put them in there place. Im sticking with this team no matter what. Hoya Saxa...

[FrazierFanatic]

I don't think we "hate" Julian playing, most of us recognize him as our best big man option right now, and for every defensive mistake or travelling call he gives us one or two blocks, rebounds in traffic or putbacks.
Jerrelle is our 5th big man, and that isn't gonna change either. It is not a matter of Nate getting his minutes; Jerrelle comes in when there is foul trouble or to try to bang a little inside for a couple of minutes. He knows the offense - he just forgets his limitations!

[HoyaSinceBirth]

bipolar much lol.
I don't really disagree with what you're saying besides hating that vaughn has to get his minutes.
Hoyas have work to do, but I'm thoroughly confident we can and will play better than we have.

[richfame]

Jan 19, 2011 21:25:04 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

I don't think we "hate" Julian playing, most of us recognize him as our best big man option right now, and for every defensive mistake or travelling call he gives us one or two blocks, rebounds in traffic or putbacks.
Jerrelle is our 5th big man, and that isn't gonna change either. It is not a matter of Nate getting his minutes; Jerrelle comes in when there is foul trouble or to try to bang a little inside for a couple of minutes. He knows the offense - he just forgets his limitations!

Honestly read through some of these game threads, posters groan every time Vaughn holds onto the ball to long or puts up an errand scoop shot like he did against seaton hall(airball from 2 feet as I recall?) If there was another option fans would want him on the bench. Also how many comments do I read that goes something like this" Play Lubick and Sims more get Vaughn out of there!!" Personally I guess it came across wrong I dont think hes horrible just inconsistant.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Jan 19, 2011 21:32:02 GMT -5 richfame said:

Jan 19, 2011 21:25:04 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

I don't think we "hate" Julian playing, most of us recognize him as our best big man option right now, and for every defensive mistake or travelling call he gives us one or two blocks, rebounds in traffic or putbacks.
Jerrelle is our 5th big man, and that isn't gonna change either. It is not a matter of Nate getting his minutes; Jerrelle comes in when there is foul trouble or to try to bang a little inside for a couple of minutes. He knows the offense - he just forgets his limitations!

Honestly read through some of these game threads, posters groan every time Vaughn holds onto the ball to long or puts up an errand scoop shot like he did against seaton hall(airball from 2 feet as I recall?) If there was another option fans would want him on the bench. Also how many comments do I read that goes something like this" Play Lubick and Sims more get Vaughn out of there!!" Personally I guess it came across wrong I dont think hes horrible just inconsistant.

including you! I'm very confused. Do you seriously not remember writing this: "

Re: Hoyas @ Seton Hall Game Discussion
« Reply #174 Yesterday at 8:14pm »

Yesterday at 8:13pm, superan wrote:
Vaughn.

Clark.


We will be so much better when Vaughn Retires. I understand he has to play and no matter what we say he is going to play but he kills us out there. "

So confused.

[richfame]

Jan 19, 2011 21:37:38 GMT -5 HoyaSinceBirth said:

Jan 19, 2011 21:32:02 GMT -5 richfame said:

Honestly read through some of these game threads, posters groan every time Vaughn holds onto the ball to long or puts up an errand scoop shot like he did against seaton hall(airball from 2 feet as I recall?) If there was another option fans would want him on the bench. Also how many comments do I read that goes something like this" Play Lubick and Sims more get Vaughn out of there!!" Personally I guess it came across wrong I dont think hes horrible just inconsistant.

including you! I'm very confused. Do you seriously not remember writing this: "

Re: Hoyas @ Seton Hall Game Discussion
« Reply #174 Yesterday at 8:14pm »

Yesterday at 8:13pm, superan wrote:
Vaughn.

Clark.


We will be so much better when Vaughn Retires. I understand he has to play and no matter what we say he is going to play but he kills us out there. "

So confused.

I totally agree. Like I said he seems to have alot of potential and has his up's and downs. Yeah I agree Myself included gets frustrated with him. My origional point was eventhough he makes myself and other people crazy we have to stick with him becuase I think he can continue to improve and give us more positive minutes as he did against seaton hall. I think alot of people are bipolar with him like myself.

[guru]

Jan 19, 2011 21:58:00 GMT -5 richfame said:

Jan 19, 2011 21:37:38 GMT -5 HoyaSinceBirth said:

including you! I'm very confused. Do you seriously not remember writing this: "

Re: Hoyas @ Seton Hall Game Discussion
« Reply #174 Yesterday at 8:14pm »

Yesterday at 8:13pm, superan wrote:
Vaughn.

Clark.


We will be so much better when Vaughn Retires. I understand he has to play and no matter what we say he is going to play but he kills us out there. "

So confused.

I totally agree. Like I said he seems to have alot of potential and has his up's and downs. Yeah I agree Myself included gets frustrated with him. My origional point was eventhough he makes myself and other people crazy we have to stick with him becuase I think he can continue to improve and give us more positive minutes as he did against seaton hall. I think alot of people are bipolar with him like myself.

This is the most confusing post in the history of this board.

[FrazierFanatic]

Jan 19, 2011 21:32:02 GMT -5 richfame said:

Jan 19, 2011 21:25:04 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

I don't think we "hate" Julian playing, most of us recognize him as our best big man option right now, and for every defensive mistake or travelling call he gives us one or two blocks, rebounds in traffic or putbacks.
Jerrelle is our 5th big man, and that isn't gonna change either. It is not a matter of Nate getting his minutes; Jerrelle comes in when there is foul trouble or to try to bang a little inside for a couple of minutes. He knows the offense - he just forgets his limitations!

Honestly read through some of these game threads, posters groan every time Vaughn holds onto the ball to long or puts up an errand scoop shot like he did against seaton hall(airball from 2 feet as I recall?) If there was another option fans would want him on the bench. Also how many comments do I read that goes something like this" Play Lubick and Sims more get Vaughn out of there!!" Personally I guess it came across wrong I dont think hes horrible just inconsistant.

Oh I don't disagree that Julian drives us all nuts sometimes! And yeah, if we had another option there might be more discontent.

[dense]

I dont agree with most of this post....

As for Free, I think Free isnt aggressive because he'd rather get his points in the flow of the game rather than pressing it. I think the last 2 games shows that he is starting to get it that he needs to get his points thru the offense even when pressing his own offense, I think he gets into to trouble when he tries to go outside of what we do, because he isnt that kind of player that can really do that successfully that often.

I think the main thing that will fix the Hoyas is something very few are mentioning, everyone is saying "PLAY VEE!! PLAY VEE!!" I think it should be more play Hollis more minutes, and get Hollis to realize that we can be that scary good team when he finally gets aggressive and hunts down shots. I mean he scored 14pts in that Seton Hall game and he didnt really force one thing. I remember one possession when we had the shot clock violation he was so intent on getting it to the post he passed up 2 shots, one in the corner and a pull up off the bounce from 17ft with like 6 left on the clock. I really think he needs to be the focus of getting him shots from the team and especially Chris, the kid shoots the ball too well to get only 8 shots.

As far as Benimon goes, as someone else pointed out he has to play, we dont have any other bigs. Everyone keeps talking about playing Henry and Julian together, Do you people remember what would happen when Henry played the 4 the last 2 years or did we get amnesia. he isnt comfortable having to handle the ball as much as the forwards do in our offense away from the basket, it would be turnover city.

Julian needs to just play faster...he gets in this robot-like step thru moves where he takes away any advantage he had. he needs to be decisive, move/counter move, not there kick it back out repost. he tries sometimes to make like 3-4 moves when he gets shut off especially when he isnt seeing how the defense is playing him....in fact Henry struggles with that more than any big. thats why he is so ineffective with his back to the basket..Henry is comfortable going middle and he always shots that hook going middle from the left block...its funny sometimes when the guy is standing there and he'll still try to get to the spot.

Finally Jason Clark handle and lack of respect for possesion is what is really killing us. he turns it over with minimal pressure so much its so frustrating. Also he is getting beat off the dribble like a drum lately on D......I think of everyone he is the person that we need to dial back the minutes. This team can still do some great things but we need to get the turnovers down, and on defense really concentrate on helping weakside faster on drives cause it seems no one can keep anyone out fo the lane. Even if it leads to a 3 barrage, id rather see that.

[richfame]

Jan 20, 2011 0:34:08 GMT -5 dense said:

I dont agree with most of this post....

As for Free, I think Free isnt aggressive because he'd rather get his points in the flow of the game rather than pressing it. I think the last 2 games shows that he is starting to get it that he needs to get his points thru the offense even when pressing his own offense, I think he gets into to trouble when he tries to go outside of what we do, because he isnt that kind of player that can really do that successfully that often.

.

I rather have Freeman be aggressive and try to put us on his back this year a la Danny Manning especially when we are struggling and things arent clicking. Theres a difference from forcing something a la chris wright and being agressive and getting his middle range jumper going. When Austin is at his best his mid range game is killing the opponent not just settling for long range threes. Just an observation.

[sleepy]

Jan 20, 2011 7:30:40 GMT -5 richfame said:

Jan 20, 2011 0:34:08 GMT -5 dense said:

I dont agree with most of this post....

As for Free, I think Free isnt aggressive because he'd rather get his points in the flow of the game rather than pressing it. I think the last 2 games shows that he is starting to get it that he needs to get his points thru the offense even when pressing his own offense, I think he gets into to trouble when he tries to go outside of what we do, because he isnt that kind of player that can really do that successfully that often.

.

I rather have Freeman be aggressive and try to put us on his back this year a la Danny Manning especially when we are struggling and things arent clicking. Theres a difference from forcing something a la chris wright and being agressive and getting his middle range jumper going. When Austin is at his best his mid range game is killing the opponent not just settling for long range threes. Just an observation.

I actually suspect this is what caused a large part of ours and Austins offensive woes in our losses outside of Notre Dame. Austin was pressing too much and forcing and the rest of the team fed off of that. We just need Austin to be Austin and our offense will be fine. Defensively is where the adjustments need to be made to win games and improve as long as Austin and everyone else is back on track offensively.

[CTHoya08]

In the last two games, Freeman has taken 25 shots, 10 of them threes. During the three game losing streak, he took 31 shots, 16 from distance. I don't really know what these numbers tell us, but wanted to inject them into this discussion.

[michaelgrahamfan]

If we lose against SJU we will soon be an after thought. Already in the most recent ESPN article on the Big East they list 10 teams which have a shot at the NCAA and we were not among them. SJU was.

[SFHoya99]

That says more about ESPN than Georgetown.

We're 7th in the RPI. We have no bad losses. We have several decent (none great) wins and and some on the road.

If we go 6-12 or something we're not getting in. But if that article said that we don't have a shot, it was simply poorly done.

[Boz]

Jan 20, 2011 11:15:06 GMT -5 michaelgrahamfan said:

If we lose against SJU we will soon be an after thought. Already in the most recent ESPN article on the Big East they list 10 teams which have a shot at the NCAA and we were not among them. SJU was.

Well, ESPN is stupid.

If the NCAAs started today, the Hoyas are in. Does any reasonable person doubt this?

And yes, if it came down do a choice between SJU and Georgetown right now (which it probably wouldn't), we get in over them, even though they beat us. Again, I doubt any serious person would claim otherwise.


Now, maybe ESPN is projecting that we lose a lot more games than we win the rest of the year. Fine, they're free to look into their crystal balls. But to not include Georgetown in the Big East NCAA field right now is just plain dumb.

Personally, I give their prognostications about as much attention as I give those of the trolls we all know who hang out here from time to time.

[FrazierFanatic]

When ESPN gets a slot on the Selection Committee, I will start worrying about their silly opinions. Never forget that they, like all madia entities, are peppered with Newhouse School grads from SU, who will figure out every way possible to kick the Hoyas when they are down.

[RDF]

How to fix the Hoyas? It's hard to do midseason but what I'd like to see happen:

1. Gameplan for opponents more. This "we do what we do" stuff is great in theory--but you better have superior talent and physical talent to overcome other teams. I dont' think Hoyas are there right now. They have no certain NBA player. They aren't athletic and for a team built on smallish guards, they don't value the basketball. So it's time to gameplan for the opponent they are playing.

2. Value the basketball. If guys keep turning it over-they need to sit. Doesn't do any good to bench Nate Lubick for an ill timed pass when Jason Clark can't dribble and falls down to lose 2 turnovers. One is a FR, other is a JR. What message does that send? Where's the accountability? Mistakes happen--but when they keep happening and it's same guy(s) doing it--they need to look elsewhere.

3. Lineup according to who you are playing. Hoyas approach is great against Nova--but when they are playing bigger/more physical teams, what good is it to play small and try to "outscore" shoot your way past them? It's not going to work. Basketball has to be inside/out in terms of getting looks and this team's lack of size kills them against zone defense--they never get Hollis at the FT line area--in fact they often get nobody to the ft line area/middle and it's why they stink against the zone. The '06-'08 teams were so successful against zone due to having a skilled forward/size who could get to that area and make a play for teammate/threat to shoot. Hollis is only guy on this team in rotation I'd trust to put at the FT line extended against a zone. He's in the corner. Why?

4. Change defenses according to personnel. I'd find minutes for Vee, Moses, and Bowen with a pressure group--even if it's for a total of 5 minutes in a game for Moses/Bowen but what is he worried about losing with them in? They might surprise you and rise to occasion.

5. Encourage guys to play with more emotion/passion. Still remember seeing the team in game against Louisville in '07 where it transformed into the championship team they became. Guys were more expressive on court and vocal with each other. PE Jr brought that energy, but it was also Dajuan, Jeff got some of it, Jessie, Roy, you name it--they became a better team as they got more expressive on court. Doesn' t mean talking junk, or acting like a moron, just more demonstrative with each other. Wright will do it--but he's alone. Team needs someone else who is not afraid to get after it and get everyone into the game. Hoyas take that corporate approach-they need to be having fun and not afraid to show they are having fun.

Some of the other suggestions I have can't be applied with this group--but III's addressing it in recruiting--more athleticism, more size, more toughness, etc....but this year--it's comes down to seeing what Hoyas can do to opponents successfully and countering what they are trying to do--which I think is gameplanning/adjustments. III's done a very shaky job in conference play. SJU game will be big test--because they are a team who spreads/exploits mismatches--and had same success that Seton Hall did where they got anything they wanted shot wise.

[btb (Account Inactive)]

Jan 20, 2011 13:37:40 GMT -5 RDF said:

How to fix the Hoyas? It's hard to do midseason but what I'd like to see happen:

1. Gameplan for opponents more. This "we do what we do" stuff is great in theory--but you better have superior talent and physical talent to overcome other teams. I dont' think Hoyas are there right now. They have no certain NBA player. They aren't athletic and for a team built on smallish guards, they don't value the basketball. So it's time to gameplan for the opponent they are playing.

2. Value the basketball. If guys keep turning it over-they need to sit. Doesn't do any good to bench Nate Lubick for an ill timed pass when Jason Clark can't dribble and falls down to lose 2 turnovers. One is a FR, other is a JR. What message does that send? Where's the accountability? Mistakes happen--but when they keep happening and it's same guy(s) doing it--they need to look elsewhere.

3. Lineup according to who you are playing. Hoyas approach is great against Nova--but when they are playing bigger/more physical teams, what good is it to play small and try to "outscore" shoot your way past them? It's not going to work. Basketball has to be inside/out in terms of getting looks and this team's lack of size kills them against zone defense--they never get Hollis at the FT line area--in fact they often get nobody to the ft line area/middle and it's why they stink against the zone. The '06-'08 teams were so successful against zone due to having a skilled forward/size who could get to that area and make a play for teammate/threat to shoot. Hollis is only guy on this team in rotation I'd trust to put at the FT line extended against a zone. He's in the corner. Why?

4. Change defenses according to personnel. I'd find minutes for Vee, Moses, and Bowen with a pressure group--even if it's for a total of 5 minutes in a game for Moses/Bowen but what is he worried about losing with them in? They might surprise you and rise to occasion.

5. Encourage guys to play with more emotion/passion. Still remember seeing the team in game against Louisville in '07 where it transformed into the championship team they became. Guys were more expressive on court and vocal with each other. PE Jr brought that energy, but it was also Dajuan, Jeff got some of it, Jessie, Roy, you name it--they became a better team as they got more expressive on court. Doesn' t mean talking junk, or acting like a moron, just more demonstrative with each other. Wright will do it--but he's alone. Team needs someone else who is not afraid to get after it and get everyone into the game. Hoyas take that corporate approach-they need to be having fun and not afraid to show they are having fun.

Some of the other suggestions I have can't be applied with this group--but III's addressing it in recruiting--more athleticism, more size, more toughness, etc....but this year--it's comes down to seeing what Hoyas can do to opponents successfully and countering what they are trying to do--which I think is gameplanning/adjustments. III's done a very shaky job in conference play. SJU game will be big test--because they are a team who spreads/exploits mismatches--and had same success that Seton Hall did where they got anything they wanted shot wise.

Lord help this man! He wins the #1 Most Hoyatalk Writing Award, lol...

[btb (Account Inactive)]

Hoyanation we are moving up believe that! Di di di di di di di di di di di that's all folks in my Porky Pig voice, hahaha

[RockawayHoya]

Jan 20, 2011 13:37:40 GMT -5 RDF said:

How to fix the Hoyas? It's hard to do midseason but what I'd like to see happen:

1. Gameplan for opponents more. This "we do what we do" stuff is great in theory--but you better have superior talent and physical talent to overcome other teams. I dont' think Hoyas are there right now. They have no certain NBA player. They aren't athletic and for a team built on smallish guards, they don't value the basketball. So it's time to gameplan for the opponent they are playing.

2. Value the basketball. If guys keep turning it over-they need to sit. Doesn't do any good to bench Nate Lubick for an ill timed pass when Jason Clark can't dribble and falls down to lose 2 turnovers. One is a FR, other is a JR. What message does that send? Where's the accountability? Mistakes happen--but when they keep happening and it's same guy(s) doing it--they need to look elsewhere.

3. Lineup according to who you are playing. Hoyas approach is great against Nova--but when they are playing bigger/more physical teams, what good is it to play small and try to "outscore" shoot your way past them? It's not going to work. Basketball has to be inside/out in terms of getting looks and this team's lack of size kills them against zone defense--they never get Hollis at the FT line area--in fact they often get nobody to the ft line area/middle and it's why they stink against the zone. The '06-'08 teams were so successful against zone due to having a skilled forward/size who could get to that area and make a play for teammate/threat to shoot. Hollis is only guy on this team in rotation I'd trust to put at the FT line extended against a zone. He's in the corner. Why?

4. Change defenses according to personnel. I'd find minutes for Vee, Moses, and Bowen with a pressure group--even if it's for a total of 5 minutes in a game for Moses/Bowen but what is he worried about losing with them in? They might surprise you and rise to occasion.

5. Encourage guys to play with more emotion/passion. Still remember seeing the team in game against Louisville in '07 where it transformed into the championship team they became. Guys were more expressive on court and vocal with each other. PE Jr brought that energy, but it was also Dajuan, Jeff got some of it, Jessie, Roy, you name it--they became a better team as they got more expressive on court. Doesn' t mean talking junk, or acting like a moron, just more demonstrative with each other. Wright will do it--but he's alone. Team needs someone else who is not afraid to get after it and get everyone into the game. Hoyas take that corporate approach-they need to be having fun and not afraid to show they are having fun.

Some of the other suggestions I have can't be applied with this group--but III's addressing it in recruiting--more athleticism, more size, more toughness, etc....but this year--it's comes down to seeing what Hoyas can do to opponents successfully and countering what they are trying to do--which I think is gameplanning/adjustments. III's done a very shaky job in conference play. SJU game will be big test--because they are a team who spreads/exploits mismatches--and had same success that Seton Hall did where they got anything they wanted shot wise.

I wouldn't get my hopes up with 4 and 5, but I think you have something there with the first 3. I've been as big a proponent as anybody for getting guys like Vee some more minutes, but I don't think it'll happen because JTIII is stubborn. However, with the 8 man rotation as is, JTIII has to do a better job managing his personnel at the 3 based on the opponent and whether or not our small lineup is causing the other team more problems than the other team's big lineup is causing for our team. With AF seemingly back on track offensively, it boils down to this: how do you divvy up the 50-55 minutes between Clark and Lubick? With the careless turnovers and poor perimeter shooting we've seen from Clark the last few games, I think those minutes should begin to be evenly split amongst the two unless Clark can prove he can be the offensive threat he was earlier in the year and takes care of the ball.

I think one way to take better care of the ball in general is for our guys to shoot the ball when a good shot presents itself. We were very hesitant during our losing streak and the collective confidence of our perimeter guys in their own ability to shoot the ball was at a low. As a result of not shooting the ball when the opportunities presented themselves, we gave the defense additional chances at forced/unforced turnovers. The message should be that a good shot needs to be taken instead of waiting for a great shot, and that a good shot (although not great) is always is preferable to a turnover.