SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 20, 2011 15:21:19 GMT -5
Rockaway,
I can't believe you have hope about the turnovers. It's been a problem for this team forever, and I can't see it changing now.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 20, 2011 15:29:44 GMT -5
They got better with TO's last year as the season progressed, so there is hope. But I agree. It's slim hope, based on what we've seen.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 20, 2011 15:33:39 GMT -5
Rockaway, I can't believe you have hope about the turnovers. It's been a problem for this team forever, and I can't see it changing now. I think we can absolutely expect this team to limit turnovers to about 12-13 a game. But it means a few things (aside from taking shots when they're open). It means avoiding stupid turnovers like bad offensive fouls, moving picks, and telegraphing lazy one handed passes out on the perimeter. But it also means a higher level of concentration (not dribbling the ball off your feet against token pressure, having the presence of mind to avoid 3, 5, 10 second and shot clock violations, whether warranted or unwarranted). No, a guy like JC will probably never be steady with the ball against real pressure. And we will always have our fair share with backdoor passes that go awry. But there is significant room for improvement re: turnovers that this team can achieve with its current personnel. And, as long as they can mitigate the effects of those turnovers by getting back on defense, we'll be better for it. And that goes under the category of hustle and effort as well.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 20, 2011 15:33:47 GMT -5
Rockaway, I can't believe you have hope about the turnovers. It's been a problem for this team forever, and I can't see it changing now. I think we can absolutely expect this team to limit turnovers to about 12-13 a game. But it means a few things (aside from taking shots when they're open). It means avoiding stupid turnovers like bad offensive fouls, moving picks, and telegraphing lazy one handed passes out on the perimeter. But it also means a higher level of concentration (not dribbling the ball off your feet against token pressure, having the presence of mind to avoid 3, 5, 10 second and shot clock violations, whether warranted or unwarranted). No, a guy like JC will probably never be steady with the ball against real pressure. And we will always have our fair share with backdoor passes that go awry. But there is significant room for improvement re: turnovers that this team can achieve with its current personnel. And, as long as they can mitigate the effects of those turnovers by getting back on defense, we'll be better for it. And that goes under the category of hustle and effort as well.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jan 20, 2011 15:37:23 GMT -5
How to fix the Hoyas? It's hard to do midseason but what I'd like to see happen: 1. Gameplan for opponents more. This "we do what we do" stuff is great in theory--but you better have superior talent and physical talent to overcome other teams. I dont' think Hoyas are there right now. They have no certain NBA player. They aren't athletic and for a team built on smallish guards, they don't value the basketball. So it's time to gameplan for the opponent they are playing. 2. Value the basketball. If guys keep turning it over-they need to sit. Doesn't do any good to bench Nate Lubick for an ill timed pass when Jason Clark can't dribble and falls down to lose 2 turnovers. One is a FR, other is a JR. What message does that send? Where's the accountability? Mistakes happen--but when they keep happening and it's same guy(s) doing it--they need to look elsewhere. 3. Lineup according to who you are playing. Hoyas approach is great against Nova--but when they are playing bigger/more physical teams, what good is it to play small and try to "outscore" shoot your way past them? It's not going to work. Basketball has to be inside/out in terms of getting looks and this team's lack of size kills them against zone defense--they never get Hollis at the FT line area--in fact they often get nobody to the ft line area/middle and it's why they stink against the zone. The '06-'08 teams were so successful against zone due to having a skilled forward/size who could get to that area and make a play for teammate/threat to shoot. Hollis is only guy on this team in rotation I'd trust to put at the FT line extended against a zone. He's in the corner. Why? 4. Change defenses according to personnel. I'd find minutes for Vee, Moses, and Bowen with a pressure group--even if it's for a total of 5 minutes in a game for Moses/Bowen but what is he worried about losing with them in? They might surprise you and rise to occasion. 5. Encourage guys to play with more emotion/passion. Still remember seeing the team in game against Louisville in '07 where it transformed into the championship team they became. Guys were more expressive on court and vocal with each other. PE Jr brought that energy, but it was also Dajuan, Jeff got some of it, Jessie, Roy, you name it--they became a better team as they got more expressive on court. Doesn' t mean talking junk, or acting like a moron, just more demonstrative with each other. Wright will do it--but he's alone. Team needs someone else who is not afraid to get after it and get everyone into the game. Hoyas take that corporate approach-they need to be having fun and not afraid to show they are having fun. Some of the other suggestions I have can't be applied with this group--but III's addressing it in recruiting--more athleticism, more size, more toughness, etc....but this year--it's comes down to seeing what Hoyas can do to opponents successfully and countering what they are trying to do--which I think is gameplanning/adjustments. III's done a very shaky job in conference play. SJU game will be big test--because they are a team who spreads/exploits mismatches--and had same success that Seton Hall did where they got anything they wanted shot wise. Lord help this man! He wins the #1 Most Hoyatalk Writing Award, lol... BTB, aka GlideHoyas, aka Mr. Adrian, aka Numero Uno, aka Coaches BFF, that was some contribution to the thread. It's astute contributions such as written above--which make me understand why this program is sputtering if you are in fact "part of the team". Please share your thoughts on the BASKETBALL side of what can help the Hoyas. If you have none--then what areas do you disagree with me? I know you don't care for my tone-but BASKETBALL related--what is your take? I've heard this from you: 1. Compliments of players based on pickup performance at Kenner League 2. Thinking negativity doesn't help the team and we need to support the team more. 3. Big East is tougher to get a win in then finding a cure for HIV, Cancer, finding Bin Laden, or having you not post 15 consecutive times in a thread that gets you riled up because the team is full of children who are going to school and playing ball and the big bad mean people who aren't really "real Hoya fans" are criticizing their play. So as a mere mortal fan who isn't nearly qualified but still is trying to decipher your "code" of speaking/thinking--and believe me it was hard doing so in less then 15 consecutive replies, I'm attempting to do the board a favor and go right to the source. As we've all learned/been blessed with finding out--we've got the great fortune to share the board with Georgetown's #1 fan as voted by the coach/coaches, and therefore Numero Uno should have the answers that we all are seeking. Share the wisdom for us lesser fans. We all would love to learn what is really needed to help turn things around.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 20, 2011 15:38:04 GMT -5
Do you mean expect as in "they can do it and it's a perfectly reasonable standard to set" or as in "I think the chances are greater than 50% that it will happen."
I'm simply saying that while we've seen minor differences in TO rate, every team under Thompson has had some level of this sloppiness. Not this bad, mind you, but we've never had a team be good at taking care of the ball.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 20, 2011 16:51:52 GMT -5
I think most important is to limit the type of turnovers we have. I think it's most important to limit live ball turnovers. That's what hurt us against seton hall was turnovers that turned into fast breaks. I have less of a problem with offensive foul turnovers and when we try to feed the back door and throw it out of bounds because those are aggressive plays and the ball is dead at the end. Its the live ball turnovers that kill us because it's potentially a 4 point swing.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 20, 2011 17:00:38 GMT -5
Do you mean expect as in "they can do it and it's a perfectly reasonable standard to set" or as in "I think the chances are greater than 50% that it will happen." I'm simply saying that while we've seen minor differences in TO rate, every team under Thompson has had some level of this sloppiness. Not this bad, mind you, but we've never had a team be good at taking care of the ball. I think both. Even in JTIII's earlier years, our FF team had a backcourt that would struggle against the press. I think CW has a better handle than anyone else we've had under JTIII. We've gotten into trouble when we've asked someone else like JC, AF or MS to bring up the ball against pressure, and it has led to unnecessary turnovers. CW has to take charge when we're being pressed and he's in there, make everyone understand that he's the guy, and then make sure he makes the right decisions in breaking pressure. I think where the Hoyas get hurt is when they commit live-ball turnovers as opposed to dead-ball ones. (EDIT: good point, HSB ) And a lot of the live-ball turnovers we commit now are the result of mistakes that can be corrected with just a marginal increase in concentration and focus on the fundamentals. That's where the coaching staff comes into play, and I hope that the current 8 day break has them working on these things in addition to defense. The NCAA teams of Jeff and Roy rarely were consistently beat in transition on live-ball turnovers. Can't say the same for this current team, and that's something that has to be changed. I think we can still beat people giving up 13-14 TOs a game, but we can't be giving up 15-20 fast break points a game.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Jan 20, 2011 19:39:26 GMT -5
Seven games into the Big East schedule and counting conference statistics only, Georgetown is in the bottom 3 in terms of turnover percentage and assist-to-turnover ratio on both offense and defense. Team's turnover percentage on offense is 22.7% and on defense is 13.9%, and offensive A/TO is 0.88 while allowing 1.67.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 20, 2011 19:43:05 GMT -5
That turnover forced number is worse than the turnover committed number, relative to the average, I think. No steals.
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Post by hobokenhoya on Jan 21, 2011 21:56:37 GMT -5
If we lose against SJU we will soon be an after thought. Already in the most recent ESPN article on the Big East they list 10 teams which have a shot at the NCAA and we were not among them. SJU was. There is no way this article exists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 12:42:03 GMT -5
Hi Guys!!
I have been reading this and other similar threads. I wonder if our problem is simply the quality of our personnel compared to other Big East teams. With that said, could anyone name a few Big East teams that do not have a better front court than we do. Yes we have a very good set of guards, but right now Sims, Vaughn, Lubick, Thompson, etc. don't scare too many other teams in the Big East. It seems that
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