RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Nov 18, 2011 12:44:44 GMT -5
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 18, 2011 13:33:25 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2011 15:48:31 GMT -5
Wasn't the hearing yesterday? Any reports?
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Nov 18, 2011 17:27:46 GMT -5
Thanks, Russky! KC, the meeting was yesterday. The short version is that DDOT said they support the plan, with a few mitigation pieces in place (mostly signal related). Then GU and the neighbors presented, essentially closing statements. Zoning Commission will publicly deliberate and rule on the plan in a public meeting on February 9th. The Hoya has a writeup here: www.thehoya.com/news/gu-defends-plan-1.2706454#.TsbbfWD_lR0
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Nov 18, 2011 22:25:06 GMT -5
Yes. GU won over DDOT and agreed to do a number of improvements, including a left turn lane at Gate 1 and a signal at Gate 3. And DDOT agreed to let GUTS make left turns out of Canal Road during the AM rush hour.
Then GU presented its rebuttal, where it basically detailed all of the ways in which it responded to the neighbors and that they were having a positive impact. The neighbors then tried to poke holes in this, which led to a hilarious exchange between Ron Lewis and Todd Olson about whether trash smells. Oh and Ron Lewis physically pushed GU's lawyer out of the way, which was also pretty funny.
At the very end, OP requested an opportunity to do a supplemental report, which was strange. Ron smirked when this was announced. Curious.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 25, 2012 16:55:53 GMT -5
For whatever reason, in the context of commenting on American's campus plan, one of the Zoning Commissioners decided to take a shot at Georgetown: The entire commission seemed to agree on relocating the Washington College of Law to Tenleytown.
“Any place near a Metro makes sense,” May said. “And I wish other universities, that I won’t name, were as smart.”I'm pretty sure Georgetown already moved its law school to a Metro-accessible location a long time ago... Also, I'm not sure how it's the University's fault that the powers that be never seriously considered putting a Metro stop in Georgetown. Not sure why their lack of foresight means that the University should have to move as much of its operations as possible to a different location. Finally (though I somehow doubt any of the Zoning Commissioners would ever walk on the street any further than the distance between where their car is parked and where they're going), the distance from Rosslyn Station to campus is about the same as the distance from Tenleytown Station to AU's campus. And GU's campus is far more compact once you get there. So following Mr. May's logic, maybe he should be calling for AU to move more and more of its operations right on top of the Metro, rather than letting them expand their existing campus...
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Jan 26, 2012 10:55:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure I follow the last part of your post -- AU did propose moving its operations closer to Metro -- that's the whole point of moving the law school from its current location, which is even further away from Metro than its main campus, to Tenleytown. You are right, however, that GU has had a satellite campus for decades. We never seemed to get that through to anyone. And GU did propose a new satellite location closer to Metro for SCS as well. I think GU would have gotten more bang for its buck if it had mentioned an actual location rather than a simple commitment. It makes the concept more "real." But all in due time. Also, to the Commission's credit they are all pretty dedicated Metro/bike users. And May is also a GU grad, so when he bashes the GU administration, he just does what the rest of us do on a regular basis .
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 9, 2012 15:24:26 GMT -5
I'm not sure I follow the last part of your post -- AU did propose moving its operations closer to Metro -- that's the whole point of moving the law school from its current location, which is even further away from Metro than its main campus, to Tenleytown. You are right, however, that GU has had a satellite campus for decades. We never seemed to get that through to anyone. And GU did propose a new satellite location closer to Metro for SCS as well. I think GU would have gotten more bang for its buck if it had mentioned an actual location rather than a simple commitment. It makes the concept more "real." But all in due time. Also, to the Commission's credit they are all pretty dedicated Metro/bike users. And May is also a GU grad, so when he bashes the GU administration, he just does what the rest of us do on a regular basis . AU is moving its law school to a location next to Metro, but in doing so, it is moving everything that is presently at Tenley Campus back to its Main Campus, where it is proposing multiple new buildings. So there will be a significant net increase in operations not next to Metro. Also, having made the walks many times, the current location of WCL (AU's law school) is really not any further away from the Metro than the main campus (at least any part of the main campus one would actually be visiting). It's about a mile either way. My understanding for why a specific location for "Georgetown Downtown" was not presented is because the site that had been tentatively selected ended up being unusable. Something about the building not having enough air? I guess the ventilation wasn't up to spec for the number of people that were going to be using the space? Anyway, I can bash the administration with the best of them and am happy to let Mr. May do so, but not when it is logically incoherent. Tonight's supposed to be the night the ZC rules on the Plan. I'll be there in the peanut gallery, with the bemused look on my face.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 9, 2012 15:59:54 GMT -5
Leasing a building on K St. is not a "downtown campus". And part of a problem with tipping one's hand is that a) real estate prices spike or b) when the zoning folks ask "What are you doing now", and the answer is, "Well, nothing but we're still working on it..." the argument is lost.
I think there is another element in the DC govt./community who would like Georgetown to invest in their communities, not 20007, along the lines of a major redevelopment in Congress Heights/St. Elizabeths Hospital, or Rhode Island Ave./Brentwood. But it's not practical to pack up GU and move to N.E., in large part, money notwithstanding, because there's nothing to pack up and move to.
I'm not optimistic about tonight's ruling but I would like to be surprised.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 9, 2012 16:57:46 GMT -5
what time is the ruling and will it be streamed online like prior meetings? If so what's the link?
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 9, 2012 17:28:36 GMT -5
Meeting starts at 6:30. Video link is here
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Feb 9, 2012 19:33:34 GMT -5
At least Anthony Hood (chairman) has been a Hoya bball fan for years.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 9, 2012 22:55:51 GMT -5
Pretty much what I expected: the can is kicked down the road once more, with "status reports" from the parties on conditions this academic year due April 12th, responses/rebuttals due a week later, and at the regular April 30th meeting they will discuss whether they want to schedule a Special Public Session on May 10th meeting to discuss the submissions and maybe make a decision then. I think it's pretty likely they will go ahead and schedule that special session.
In addition, the ZC would like the university to:
1. State whether it is willing to state its intentions regarding not purchasing any property in 20007 for the next ten years (not necessarily that it has to agree to that, "just asking") 2. Offer more in the way of substantive proposals to mitigate off-campus student behavior, as current proposals appear insufficient to eliminate objectionable impacts. 3. Offer a more robust system to mitigate student and employee parking in the neighborhood. 4. Offer a more intensive proposal for the "community dialogue" meetings that are held regularly with neighbors. Having reviewed minutes of these meetings, it was felt that no new ground was being broken or conclusions reached, but merely going over the same ground (Chairman Hood likened it to a gerbil running around in a wheel). It was also suggested that the meetings should include a very senior administrator, someone who can "make decisions," rather than mid-level staff.
There was general agreement that the demand that Georgetown provide 100% on-campus housing for its undergraduates was impractical. At the same time, commissioners appeared at a loss as to actual solutions to the "DrunkenGeorgetownStudents.com" issue. Chairman Hood hastened to point out that it is not the job of the Zoning Commission to offer suggestions, which is something they want on the record, given that BZA's attempts to mandate certain solutions got overturned in court the last time around.
The only thing approaching a suggestion as to what might appease the commissioners was Hood's repeated citation of Howard's campus plan as a model example, with the neighboring community supporting the university. Left unstated - obviously - was the fact that Howard's context is very different from Georgetown's, most notably because no one who lives next to Howard is under the impression that they reside in a "village" and are entitled to dictate who is allowed to enter or reside there.
Truthfully, the University and the Zoning Commission are both in a rather awkward position. The University has effectively been instructed that the only way it can secure passage of its plan is to propose further restrictions on the freedoms of its constituents. It has to propose further methods through which it will control students while they're off-campus (Commissioner May, the GU grad, cited the ANC's point that there was a logical limit as to the extent that the University could control the behavior of adults outside its boundaries, which explains the 100% proposal), which is guaranteed to be unpopular with students. GU also has to propose measures through which it will prevent students and employees from parking in the surrounding neighborhood, effectively discriminating against them relative to anyone not affiliated with the University. This will likewise be very unpopular (although it did appear that the ZC was unwilling to go for the proposed blanket ban on students being able to park any car, ever, in 20007. Not that that was enforceable to begin with).
The Zoning Commission is in an awkward position because, at least as I understand it, it cannot actually rule in any definitive way on the "objectionable impacts" themselves. May pretty much flat out said that undergraduates are "the problem" and read some inflammatory passages from previously submitted testimony to that effect. But the ZC cannot forbid students from living off-campus, nor can it do anything else that specifically targets students, who are a protected class under the DC Human Rights Act. At another point, the problem was identified as "group houses" - according to May, even just one group house can cause problems that mar a neighborhood, much less several. Current conditions, with multiple group houses in the surrounding neighborhoods, are thus objectionable. But the ZC cannot actually make any sort of ruling that says this; IIRC there was already a court case in which it was held that trying to limit group houses (for any reason other than safety, presumably) was discriminatory.
So the ZC is in this strange position where it recognizes all of these "objectionable impacts" but cannot do anything about them directly. To do so would be to invite a lawsuit that would likely result in a reversal. As a result, its only tool is to effectively hold the campus plan hostage: lead the University to propose restrictive measures of its own accord, since the ZC cannot require or perhaps even suggest them, or else the plan doesn't get approved. That kind of stalemate leaves everybody unhappy, though. I'm guessing the commissioners find it politically untenable to simply ignore the neighbors and say that off-campus issues like noise, trash, etc. should be enforced by the relevant city agencies.
Going forward... the "status report" idea is kind of a stupid one. Of course the neighbors will report zero progress - how could it be any other way? It's like asking a group of Republicans to gauge the success of Obamacare or a group from the NEA to gauge the success of a school voucher program. There's an inherent philosophical disagreement that precludes any sort of objective assessment of conditions. The Office of Planning may or may not budge, depending on how much political interference from the mayor and certain councilmembers takes place. Will GU be able to come up with enough new proposals to give the ZC the cover it needs to approve the plan? I'm guessing there will be a lot of cribbing from the AU and Howard plans over the next few months. Regardless, they will probably include provisions for periodic (May suggested yearly) status checks to gauge the effectiveness of mitigation efforts. The nonstop-campaign-season-fication of the campus plan process - oh goody.
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rpn6
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Post by rpn6 on Feb 10, 2012 11:36:52 GMT -5
It seems like all they care about it being able to park within a block of their house, reducing the traffic, and limiting off campus parties. All pretty much can be solved if they allow a metro stop on or near the campus. Its a give and take world people....
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Feb 10, 2012 11:55:53 GMT -5
Them "allowing" a metro stop is like me "allowing" you to go out and make a billion dollars. Its not worth much as a concession. It is beyond the realm of reasonably expectations that a metro stop in Gtown gets built within 30 years.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 10, 2012 12:34:26 GMT -5
It seems like all they care about it being able to park within a block of their house, reducing the traffic, and limiting off campus parties. All pretty much can be solved if they allow a metro stop on or near the campus. Its a give and take world people.... It does often seem like 99% of issues in DC that involve neighborhood opposition boil down to three things: parking, noise, and 'respect.' I guess Georgetowners aren't so different after all...
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 10, 2012 13:01:10 GMT -5
The problem from our perspective is that the ZC seems to believe all these horror stories the neighbors are spewing. Honestly we need some impartial 3rd party to analyze how much of a negative impact the students have. In theory I guess that was supposed to be the office of planning, but they had their report co-authored by the neighborhood.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 10, 2012 13:50:55 GMT -5
Some additional points the Commission tentatively decided (all in favor of the University): - Proposed employment growth is good. - Proposed development plan is very modest and also fine. - Proposed enrollment growth is generally fine. OP also agreed to the increase. This had been a major issue and is now generally resolved (though the Commission reserved the right to reconsider depending on the University's response on off-campus housing issues). - 100% is not going to happen, and the ZC directed OP to "come back" with a better solution.
One of the Commissioners made it very clear that while he wanted GU to do "more" where it could, he supported Georgetown on all the key issues and recognized its immense value as an economic driver in the District. Also specifically noted the importance of not pushing GU out of the District. And the two federal guys were generally in agreement, but still pushing for "more" as well.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Feb 10, 2012 16:25:08 GMT -5
The problem from our perspective is that the ZC seems to believe all these horror stories the neighbors are spewing. Honestly we need some impartial 3rd party to analyze how much of a negative impact the students have. In theory I guess that was supposed to be the office of planning, but they had their report co-authored by the neighborhood. I actually believe the horror stories. I just have no sympathy because I would never in a million years move into a known colllege town because I know I'm the kind of person who would call the cops if I heard my neighbors partying on a Thursday at 10. So....I stick to quiet neighborhoods. Caveat Emptor.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Feb 10, 2012 19:48:25 GMT -5
Yes, the committee seemed to be spinning their wheels last night, not really knowing how to proceed. I think the enrollment increases for grad students were favored, because grad students are more mature, etc. There were some suggestions to leave the problem of trash, etc. to the public safety people, instead of the university.
I was amused that Chairman Hood at one point said that lots of neighborhoods have noise; he knows his neighborhood has noise, and yes, he is responsible for some of that noise.
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