|
Post by thejerseytornado on Oct 25, 2010 12:56:34 GMT -5
That being said, it seems like he has been somewhere around the center of every "chemistry" issue we've heard about since he has been here. He has been protected to a large degree, and that even meant cutting Sapp's role a few years ago. If a team has a leader and a bad apple, both the leader and the bad apple will be "around the center of every chemistry issue." *edited to respect all hoyas* Being in a chemistry issue doesn't mean one is a bad player or not a leader. It means two personalities didn't mesh. As for winning in the tourneys, the one defense of Chris I believe is that he was never the one who seemed to not try or give up. If anything, he gets too hyped up for big games. All of this will be put to rest this season as we see: 1. How Chris does with a highly-regarded frosh who the fans see as his future replacement 2. How Chris does as the clear head honcho. Austin's not going to usurp that role, even as the BE player of the year.
|
|
|
Post by daytonahoya31 on Oct 25, 2010 13:00:19 GMT -5
On a board that pines for toughness out of this team, Chris is the best and toughest pg in the league and by far the toughest kid on the team....I saw way better decision making last season than in the past..Just can't understand why people are getting on him before the season even starts.
|
|
AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by AltoSaxa on Oct 25, 2010 13:15:33 GMT -5
Practice? Practice? We talkin' about Practice! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI)
|
|
nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,041
|
Post by nathanhm on Oct 25, 2010 13:16:18 GMT -5
While I understand the need for discussion and debate on Georgetown basketball, remember these guys are college kids. They aren't perfect, they aren't professionals, they are kids who are students 1st, and basketball players second. So calling out a guy for causing chemistry issues or not being tough enough seems unfair to me.
Earlier this week Sapp posted something on his facebook which amounted to him saying he was shocked at some of the things being said about him by Georgetown fans but it didn't matter because he knew he left it all out on the floor and he will always be a Hoya. Seemed pretty obvious to me he was referring to two threads on HoyaTalk discussed recently.
Sometimes I think its nice to take a step back and realize, all of these guys work hard to represent the university to the best of the ability and they are dedicated to becoming better.
I for one am really excited about this season, and grateful to all the hard work the team puts in behind closed doors that we don't see. I think most would agree we have a top 20 team in the country which puts us in the top 1/2 of 1% of all D1 basketball programs.
So behind the leadership and toughness of Chris, Austin & Julian, I think we are in for a great season.
|
|
|
Post by hoya00 on Oct 25, 2010 13:47:38 GMT -5
^^THIS.
|
|
|
Post by longtimesaxa on Oct 25, 2010 13:57:58 GMT -5
Got to agree with nathanhm and hoya00. Several years back I changed my general view of the team when I was critical of somebody and my son, then a junior, said "Dad, they're kids. I'm older than most of them." Perspective is a wonderful thing.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Oct 25, 2010 14:13:37 GMT -5
Mistakes happen but they are to be corrected NOW--and Wright's the type of kid you better be on his ass every minute or he'll get loose with the ball--like a QB who likes to throw into coverage--he might get away with a few--and even make a spectacular play--but you keep letting it slide and it bites you in long run.
Daytona--I respect you a lot--but NOBODY played well against Ohio U--not one damn player and as a team they sucked and if you are going to point to Wright--didn't the opposing guards destroy the team? Bassett and Cooper dominated the game-and did whatever they wanted.
Wright is tough--and he's got a lot of talent/ability--which is why I'm critical--if you are a player nobody cares about--nothing is said positive or negative--when you have great ability, then expectations are going to be higher and sorry--but Wright has to be a dominant player this year--in terms of all facets and especially leadership--because this is Austin/His team this year--and they don't have Monroe--who covered up a lot of awful halfcourt basketball from this team with his ability to play distributor in halfcourt.
Toughness is needed--and appreciate Chris' approach to game--but as a lead guard--it's about decision making- on both ends of court--and Ambassador's point about the ignorant play that sent Mazzulla to the FT line in a tie game---was awful. 2 cheap points in a championship game hurt as much as the awful rebounding, etc......
My expectations for this team to succeed are for Wright to have a SEASON like he played in the BET--and that is a compliment to his talent--but decision making is going to be key because one of the best games I ever saw him play was against Louisville last year-and he didn't do much scoring--but he was wonderful with ball/decision making and got the right people the ball and dominated the game without scoring--so it's not always about points that lead team-it's about understanding what you can do to lead team to win or give them best chance to win a game--and Wright scares me a bit in sense that he might try to do too much.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Oct 25, 2010 14:24:24 GMT -5
In an open practice scrimmage. Are you people for real? We are seriously talking about benching Chris for something the majority of us didn't even see happen at a practice the first week in? This is the definition of an overreaction. Welcome to Hoyatalk. RDF is a master at this -- especially in relation to certain pet topics of his. My pet topic is what helps the team win or not--and like me or not--tell me where I've been wrong in discussing small ball, the lack of focus of this current group, and how it pertains to success on the court? If I am--please tell me because while some of you fluff Ken Pom and other stats all the time-there is plenty of statistical, and common sense analysis to back up my points. If you think Wright making FR like mistakes in a practice isn't a concern--then no big deal. If it happens during year and hurts team, then don't complain. Turnovers are going to happen--but Wright has a habit of running the break poorly--trying to look for his points (which did happen in BET too--in a key sequence where Georgetown should've taken lead in 1st Half and ended up giving up a dunk on other end of court). Everyone looks at points scored as playing great--and playing great includes all facets of the game--and knowing when to score/when to get others involved. Improvement should be taking place for a SR guard who has played as much as Wright--and he should be first to be frustrated by some of his mistakes--aggressive mistakes happen--but is it aggressive or stupid when you get swallowed up after getting too deep in the paint repeatedly? Take that aggression out on defensive end of court and not just on offense if you want to play tough. All I'm saying is that as a SR--Wright is going to have to play a lot better for this team to contend--and yes I'm one who doesn't think very much of this group without Monroe--hope they have a surprise year--but if it's small ball again--and without a lottery pick as one of your few bigs-then I'm not as positive about things as many. Hope for great things--but want to see it on court and hearing that Wright is playing same didn't give me the same warm fuzzies it gives some of you.
|
|
SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 747
|
Post by SirSaxa on Oct 25, 2010 14:32:00 GMT -5
Ambassador's point about the ignorant play that sent Mazzulla to the FT line in a tie game---was awful. 2 cheap points in a championship game hurt as much as the awful rebounding, etc...... Yes, we all know Chris made an error. Chris realized it too. AND, he immediately made up for it by driving the length of the court to get those 2 points back. More importantly, citing that error as some kind of evidence of shortcomings in his game, while ignoring that he played virtually every minute of 4 straight games, high pressure games at an amazingly high level (after having played the vast majority of minutes all season) and almost willing his team through to the BET Final and coming as close as you can to winning the entire thing.... then, being exhausted -- physically, mentally, emotionally -- he made a mistake.... THIS you cite as a sign he hasn't grown as a PG during his 3 years and if he doesn't change in preseason practice we should bench his ass? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Jersey and RDF -- you guys are two of the most prolific and knowledgeable fans on this board... but the above is utter nonsense. Chris is one of the very best players on this team and in the BE. Yes, I too hope he continues to make progress with his game as he demonstrated toward the end of last season, but calling him out because of something that someone else posted they think they saw during an open practice during the first week of the pre-season prep before a single game has been played? Come on guys, let's get real.
|
|
rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 2,595
|
Post by rosslynhoya on Oct 25, 2010 14:32:20 GMT -5
Mistakes happen but they are to be corrected NOW--and Wright's the type of kid you better be on his ass every minute or he'll get loose with the ball--like a QB who likes to throw into coverage--he might get away with a few--and even make a spectacular play--but you keep letting it slide and it bites you in long run. That's it!!! CW is the second coming of the Gunslinger! It all makes sense now.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Oct 25, 2010 14:38:15 GMT -5
Ambassador's point about the ignorant play that sent Mazzulla to the FT line in a tie game---was awful. 2 cheap points in a championship game hurt as much as the awful rebounding, etc...... Yes, we all know Chris made an error. Chris realized it too. AND, he immediately made up for it by driving the length of the court to get those 2 points back. More importantly, citing that error as some kind of evidence of shortcomings in his game, while ignoring that he played virtually every minute of 4 straight games, high pressure games at an amazingly high level (after having played the vast majority of minutes all season) and almost willing his team through to the BET Final and coming as close as you can to winning the entire thing.... then, being exhausted -- physically, mentally, emotionally -- he made a mistake.... THIS you cite as a sign he hasn't grown as a PG during his 3 years and if he doesn't change in preseason practice we should bench his ass? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Jersey and RDF -- you guys are two of the most prolific and knowledgeable fans on this board... but the above is utter nonsense. Chris is one of the very best players on this team and in the BE. Yes, I too hope he continues to make progress with his game as he demonstrated toward the end of last season, but calling him out because of something that someone else posted they think they saw during an open practice during the first week of the pre-season prep before a single game has been played? Come on guys, let's get real. Yeah, calling him out on something people saw and know he actually did is not fair--or realistic--as compared to saying he'll be great because he played well in a Tournament last year for 4 games and is a year older. I've been a proponent of Wright since he signed---and appreciate his effort--but that isn't good enough this year. He's now got to grow as a player to reach his potential and the mental aspect of the position is something he needs to improve for the team and his own professional aspirations. If you get same peformance from him this year--this will be a bubble team.
|
|
|
Post by thejerseytornado on Oct 25, 2010 14:39:25 GMT -5
Jersey and RDF -- you guys are two of the most prolific and knowledgeable fans on this board... but the above is utter nonsense. i'm neither prolific nor knowledgeable and I was one of the first to defend chris from attacks. I assume you meant ambassador ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Trust me, if you sit anywhere near me @ games, you know I'm on the Wright bandwagon. edit: RDF--you're making a complete strawman. On one side is people who saw improvement over the years + especially last year. They believe that trajectory will continue. On the other hand, you have yourself and a few others who saw him make a mistake or two in a practice of a type we've seen him make before and are calling for everyone to be concerned about CW's decision making moreso than what we saw in a 10-15 game stretch in which CW made many, many great decisions to every 1 bad one. And if there was one mistake that I'll give him a pass on, it's that tragic play against WVU when he had played 4 straight games, had just beat 'Cuse the night before, and was in the middle of a HUGE and intense game. Especially because he responded to it properly.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Oct 25, 2010 14:46:51 GMT -5
Why is it seen that those who are critical of someone aren't supporting them? When did everyone become such Edited? So you don't like someone or don't want them to do well because you hold them to higher standard and have expectations of improvement based on seeing what they can be--instead of settling for what they've been?
If I really thought the guy/team sucked--why even post anything? The hope is to see team/players reach their potential and hope they find it--because all the coaching in the world isn't going to help--if you don't apply it/listen or put in the work. Wright can be a great player--but that means playing on both ends of court, leading by example--again--knowing when to score/when to get others going, and making smart decisions with the ball. That hope and criticism now means I like/want Kemba Walker more then Wright or think he sucks?
Unreal how this program has gone from a team that I used to defend to fans because they were too violent/physical and tried to win by outclawing you to having to be "nicer" about having expectations for players who are "great" because they hit some shots in a league tournament--which wasn't won and then laid an egg in March--got worked by opposing backcourt and also didn't take a mental approach to each game that was needed to play to the ability they possessed. Wright is the leader--he has to take responsbility for this and make sure others follow or tell coach to find some who will--because this is the last go around.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
|
Post by MCIGuy on Oct 25, 2010 14:50:18 GMT -5
i'm neither prolific nor knowledgeable and I was one of the first to defend chris from attacks. I assume you meant ambassador ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Yep. Just in case you weren't aware of it, ambassador's original name is JerseyHoya I believe.
|
|
vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,875
|
Post by vcjack on Oct 25, 2010 14:50:53 GMT -5
People here are missing the bigger point. The fact that Chris didn't convert on a thoughtless drive to the hoop is actually a REALLY GOOD THING.
Why, because the guys who stopped him were wearing Blue and Gray (or actually white) uniforms. I have far more confidence in Chris's decision making and play making abilities than I do with the team's ability to consistently make stops against talented guards.
We can't complain that all the team does is focus on offense and then get mad when they actually do work on defense at practice (at one point during the practice, everyone applauded after Jason scored on a drive to the hoop and JTIII yelled at the crowd "stop clapping")
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
|
Post by prhoya on Oct 25, 2010 14:56:39 GMT -5
Let's get a few things cleared up: 1. WE LOVE CHRIS and he is one of our leaders. I, for one, would not like to have any other point guard leading us this year. 2. That was an open practice just for fun and no one here is asking for his benching based on that practice. It's absurd to suggest that and to accuse anyone of suggesting that. 3. That said, IMO, one of the keys to success this year is CW's play (some of the others: better defense, rebounding and the contribution at the 4). If he plays consistently, leads and maintains his composure like at the end of the 09-10 season, we will go very far. Basically, shed the Bad Chris and keep Good Chris. 4. This year, we can all agree that JT3 has more experience and fresh talent to back Chris. If for some reason, during any given game, it's not working for Chris, JT3 could sit him down briefly to relax him without the team losing too much. As a matter of fact, JT3 should use the depth to make sure his players have fresh legs in March, especially if the team is going to press more. 5. Bonus: His averages of 33% from 3pt the last two years are an aberration. He'll shoot closer to his freshman 48%. Stay controlled and focused, set feet, limit the crazy/hurried 3s at the end of the shot clock and he'll get it.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 25, 2010 14:57:10 GMT -5
Saxa - Appreciate your insight and I agree with some of the points that Chris's defenders make. What is lost in this is that we all support Chris. We just want him and the team to do well, and some of what I have seen over the past few years and other things raise questions (which I think are too important to be written off).
I think there is some degree to which the board has become soft. Remember when everyone was on JW for not being athletic? It was something like 2 1/2 years of that nonsense. And, at the same stage, JW's career in college is far superior to Chris's career.
I'd like to see Chris be a leader on this team, but leadership invites this kind of criticism. GU basketball has been blessed with some of the best talent in the history of the sport - and all of those guys took heat at some point in their careers, if not in college because they were so damned good. If Chris wants to be put in the same category of folks (long shot given the rarefied air), he will have to earn his way in, and that is done on the court. The critics are answered on the court. If he wants to play a minute of NBA ball, he'll have to suck it up and respond on the court - look at PE2 - I had no complaints about his college career, and he has worked hard, but it has not been enough as yet. And if he does make an NBA team, he can expect that his game will be picked apart and he'll hear some things he does not want to hear.
|
|
alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
|
Post by alleninxis on Oct 25, 2010 15:04:22 GMT -5
Yeah, calling him out on something people saw and know he actually did is not fair--or realistic--as compared to saying he'll be great because he played well in a Tournament last year for 4 games and is a year older.
If you're putting that much stock into an open practice scrimmage, what about the strong showing he had at the CP3 camp followed up by a very strong Kenner League? People were there and watched those events, too.
|
|
SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 747
|
Post by SirSaxa on Oct 25, 2010 15:22:48 GMT -5
i'm neither prolific nor knowledgeable and I was one of the first to defend chris from attacks. I assume you meant ambassador ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Yep. Just in case you weren't aware of it, ambassador's original name is JerseyHoya I believe. MCIguy -- thanks for stepping in to clear that up. JerseyTornado... sorry if you thought my comments were addressed to you. They were addressed to Ambassador (nee JerseyHoya) and RDF. PRHoya... agree 100% that the team and each of our players will benefit from greater use of the bench this season... if it happens. And yes, I thought Vee could have given Chris more breathers last year. Adding Markel to the team should make that even easier and hopefully more productive. Ambassador.. I hear you. And yes, everyone gets criticized. But IMHO it seems Chris has taken more criticism than any player I can recall over the course of his 4 year career. While some of the criticism is justified (decision making) we seem --as a group -- to lose sight of everything he brings to the team. Speed, athleticism, and tremendous heart AND skill. It wasn't just "4 games in the BET"..... he raised his level of play down the stretch last season.... and he has been a valuable member of this team since his arrival. vcjack... interesting perspective re: our D! ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) alleninxis... good points. All... I think everyone on this board would love to see Chris AND the team have a great season. chris, in particular, has come in for far more than his share of criticism during his 4 years. Could we consider holding off on further criticism at least until the season starts and we see how he plays in actual games? Thanks everyone.
|
|
biggmanu
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 671
|
Post by biggmanu on Oct 25, 2010 15:24:18 GMT -5
I respect everyone's passion about practicing the way you play and the expectation for every player to progress and fix the small things in their game. I too feel anxious about Chris W's progress. I tend to agree with RDF. Chris should never be judged by his stats and we need to stay common sensical when talking about his progress.
Excuses about being physically and/or mentally tired last year is bologna. Chris clearly has a killer mentality, which never tires. His mistakes have to do with his control over his physical explosiveness mixed with his mental emotions and frustrations. Things that aren't necessarily quantifiable to his stats because they both pad his stats and limit them. Chris clearly has a ton of passion, but his reaction to turnovers/mistakes tends to be a balls out, coast to coast lay-up that usually ends as missed lay up or another turnover. Very natural thing to do.
I don't think I'm alone in saying that most great athletes have short memories, but in the long haul fix the small things. And they do that in practice on both a physical and emotional level. Chris definitely has small things he needs to fix, emotionally, and probably less so physically. Don't anybody deny it. He needs to dish the ball even when he is Editeded about his last turnover. Needs to finish a lay-up(s) after you just broke everyones ankles on your way to the basket, happens more often than not. I'm not saying he has to be perfect in every practice and every possession of a big game and I don't blame him for anything. But I expect every gtown player to fix the small things in practice. And for Chris he needs to practice controlling his mistakes, controlling his physical and mental explosiveness. If coach can refine this beast of a kid and instill in him the gracefullness of a guy like Jon Wallace, than we will win the last game of the season rather than going home with a loss.
|
|