theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 19, 2010 12:42:03 GMT -5
Bush had inside knowledge warning him about the 9/11 attacks. Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans after Katrina to save white neighborhoods. Bush outed a "covert operative" at the CIA to eliminate critics of his administration. Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq so we could invade and steal their oil. Bush knew where Osama was for the entirety of his administration so we could continue a phony war on terror. Apples and oranges. There are crackpot conspiracy theories about all Presidents, but we're not talking about secret behind-the-scenes puppetmaster stuff here. We're talking about basic, provable facts about a man's life and background. No one ever believed that George W. Bush was a secret Catholic, or was born in Canada. George W. Bush relapsed and began drinking heavily during his presidency. George W. Bush had an affair with Condi Rice. You want to get into the nasty allegations about the Bush twins, too?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 19, 2010 12:43:04 GMT -5
Is there a way of creating a Free Republic subboard? Laura Bush in fact killed someone, and that is something that she, now no longer First Lady, has to deal with like any American would. She admits it, and she deserves great credit for doing so. That being said, you kill someone after running a stop sign or whatever, and you should not be surprised if certain judgments are made publicly. Recall a previous First Lady and her family were accused of funny business with Vince Foster - something that was as outrageous then as it is now. Michelle Obama's purpose was far more compassionate - to be with a grieving life-long friend, and I'll be damned if that is no longer tolerable in this country. Is it just me, or did anybody else, at the end of this, imagine the brothers from Animal House walking out humming "The Star Spangled Banner"?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 19, 2010 12:52:29 GMT -5
1. I think the whole religion "debate," if you even want to call it that, is just plain silly. I do have one question though. Do the Obamas go to church every week? I'm not saying they're horrible people if they don't, God knows I don't, but I'm wondering about it in the context of this discussion. Most past presidents have made big issue of their church attendance, at least as best I can remember. But I realized that I've never really seen any of those pictures of the parents and their cute little kids coming out of or going into church. I definitely remember that with Bush and Clinton (minus the cute part with regards to Chelsea ). Just curious & wondering if a lack of media coverage of their church attendance, if they do attend, might play into these numbers a bit. 2. I couldn't care less about Michelle Obama's vacation. Yes, it's true, there's really no such thing as a private, personal vacation when you are the First Lady. Sorry. Comes with the territory. But she's entitled to that. (But I do still think it's remarkably tone deaf, even in light of the stated intent of the trip.) But I'm not going to judge her on that. Whatever. I'd like to get to Spain myself, maybe sometime next year. However, I do think Michelle Obama should not be on the "off limits" list to the extent that she lobbies on behalf of legislation, yes, even healthy eating legislation. She is putting herself in the policymaker role on that front and she should be open to any and all criticism. 3. Finally, all other factors aside, I think that -- if for no other reason -- Obama deserves to spend some time in the low forties for allowing some idiot in his administration to green light and promote the phrase "recovery summer." Ye gods!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 13:17:19 GMT -5
Apples and oranges. There are crackpot conspiracy theories about all Presidents, but we're not talking about secret behind-the-scenes puppetmaster stuff here. We're talking about basic, provable facts about a man's life and background. No one ever believed that George W. Bush was a secret Catholic, or was born in Canada. George W. Bush relapsed and began drinking heavily during his presidency. George W. Bush had an affair with Condi Rice. You want to get into the nasty allegations about the Bush twins, too? You're kind of proving my point for me - particularly by using the word "allegations". All of that stuff is rumor and noise. Where Barack Obama was born and what religion he practices are questions that have pretty simple, straightforward answers. Unless, of course, you're so far gone that you think the man's entire life has been one giant, orchestrated lie. But I hope no one with an ounce of sense thinks that we're living in The Truman Show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 13:19:22 GMT -5
1. I think the whole religion "debate," if you even want to call it that, is just plain silly. I do have one question though. Do the Obamas go to church every week? If I remember anything from the campaign, it's that they went to Jeremiah Wright's church every week for 20+ years. Whether or not they still worship regularly? Hard to say. For what it's worth (not much, I'm sure), I have seen Joe Biden at Sunday mass at Holy Trinity a few times.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 19, 2010 13:23:17 GMT -5
George W. Bush relapsed and began drinking heavily during his presidency. George W. Bush had an affair with Condi Rice. You want to get into the nasty allegations about the Bush twins, too? You're kind of proving my point for me - particularly by using the word "allegations". All of that stuff is rumor and noise. Where Barack Obama was born and what religion he practices are questions that have pretty simple, straightforward answers. Unless, of course, you're so far gone that you think the man's entire life has been one giant, orchestrated lie. But I hope no one with an ounce of sense thinks that we're living in The Truman Show. There are "allegations" that President Obama is a Muslim - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. There are "allegations" that 9/11 was an inside job - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. There are "allegations" that the US invaded Iraq as part of a conspiracy related to Halliburton - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. There are "allegations" that Bush started drinking heavily in office - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. What's the difference? Why is the stuff about Bush different than the stuff about Obama? They're all ridiculous, and they're all believed by the same number of people.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 19, 2010 13:33:02 GMT -5
1. I think the whole religion "debate," if you even want to call it that, is just plain silly. I do have one question though. Do the Obamas go to church every week? If I remember anything from the campaign, it's that they went to Jeremiah Wright's church every week for 20+ years. Whether or not they still worship regularly? Hard to say. For what it's worth (not much, I'm sure), I have seen Joe Biden at Sunday mass at Holy Trinity a few times. Actually, it's not hard to say. The president's daily schedule is practically a public record, he's continuously surrounded by journalists, and thus it's a provable fact that they no longer go to church (skipping Christmas services in both 2008 and 2009). abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-obama-blackberry-faith-white-house/story?id=9689272If you honestly believe that Obama prefers to worship privately when no one else is watching, then it's just as easy for someone to believe he's privately praying in the direction of Mecca five times a day ... when no one else is around to watch. I mean, I know other Muslims who don't go to mosque regularly, don't tote a prayer rug around during the day, and some even consume pork products once in a while -- are they not Muslims too? (or do you like always have to crash airliners into skyscrapers and shoot up military bases to qualify as 'not really Muslim').
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 19, 2010 13:46:27 GMT -5
Who cares? That kind of thing is a private, family decision. I have more trouble with folks who advertise that they in fact go to church. IMO, that's not the purpose - to gain credit or something in a community.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 19, 2010 13:47:51 GMT -5
Boz - I am not sure how often W went to church. I recall occasional visits. He was often in Crawford on weekends and seemed to stay on his so-called ranch. (Most ranches in Texas have cattle.) I remember it used to be a topic of publicity with HW and Clinton. Maybe the current media just does not view it as news or there are security "lids."
Still, as above, the issue is so minor and private that I do not care all that much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 13:58:50 GMT -5
You're kind of proving my point for me - particularly by using the word "allegations". All of that stuff is rumor and noise. Where Barack Obama was born and what religion he practices are questions that have pretty simple, straightforward answers. Unless, of course, you're so far gone that you think the man's entire life has been one giant, orchestrated lie. But I hope no one with an ounce of sense thinks that we're living in The Truman Show. There are "allegations" that President Obama is a Muslim - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. There are "allegations" that 9/11 was an inside job - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. There are "allegations" that the US invaded Iraq as part of a conspiracy related to Halliburton - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. There are "allegations" that Bush started drinking heavily in office - people, apparently very dim people, making the assertion with zero evidence to back it up and despite a great body of evidence disproving it. What's the difference? Why is the stuff about Bush different than the stuff about Obama? They're all ridiculous, and they're all believed by the same number of people. There could be allegations that I worked behind the scenes in my office to get a colleague fired over something petty. It's not true, but if someone's paranoid (and ignorant and stupid) enough, they can create a story whereby they've convinced themselves that it's true. And neither you nor I nor anyone else could convince them otherwise. There could not be allegations that I went to Syracuse.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 19, 2010 14:08:23 GMT -5
I don't know. I saw Cam wearing Orange once. I swear it.
Prove you didn't!
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 19, 2010 14:15:21 GMT -5
The Syracuse stuff is a canard. If your point is to complain about the issues regarding the president's religion, then there's nothing that can equivocally prove that he's a Muslim or a Christian - he's not Roman Catholic, so there's no birth certificate, and Islam allows for conversion by saying a phrase. If you want to go back to the birther issue, there's more of a case there - the newspaper announcements, etc. - but, hey, it's possible that birth certificates can be faked and newspapers altered if you want to get all nutty (and who's to say that you didn't attend Syracuse first, then had the records changed and expunged?). Attacks against George W. Bush employed similar amounts of "evidence" and whackjob conspiracy theorizing.
The birther and secret Muslim stuff both annoy me because they take away from legitimate focus on the fact that Obama's been a weak president who's mucked up everything he's touched.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 14:15:39 GMT -5
If you honestly believe that Obama prefers to worship privately when no one else is watching, then it's just as easy for someone to believe he's privately praying in the direction of Mecca five times a day ... when no one else is around to watch. If I stop buying season tickets to Georgetown games, that must mean that I would then start cheering for Syracuse behind closed doors.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 14:20:19 GMT -5
Okay, I have to get out of this thread. I've made and brought on multiple references to myself and Syracuse in a positive light. Yuck.
As penance, I shall now go burn down the Carrier Dome.
For the record, I think everybody mentioned in this thread is crazy, on both sides of the aisle. I just think that Republicans are crazier. ;D
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 19, 2010 14:28:39 GMT -5
If I stop buying season tickets to Georgetown games, that must mean that I would then start cheering for Syracuse behind closed doors. That is the only logical conclusion a reasonable individual could reach. As penance, I shall now go burn down the Carrier Dome. It won't burn, trust me. The fire, ay, it will not consume her. (Also, I assume that this isn't a challenge for Obama to nuke Mecca to prove his non-Muslimness, because honestly, that would put most doubts to rest). For the record, I think everybody mentioned in this thread is crazy, on both sides of the aisle. I just think that Republicans are crazier. ;D Fair enough.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 19, 2010 17:53:50 GMT -5
Is there a way of creating a Free Republic subboard? Laura Bush in fact killed someone, and that is something that she, now no longer First Lady, has to deal with like any American would. She admits it, and she deserves great credit for doing so. That being said, you kill someone after running a stop sign or whatever, and you should not be surprised if certain judgments are made publicly. Recall a previous First Lady and her family were accused of funny business with Vince Foster - something that was as outrageous then as it is now. Michelle Obama's purpose was far more compassionate - to be with a grieving life-long friend, and I'll be damned if that is no longer tolerable in this country. Really? That's a bunch of crap. First, I love the contrived outrage "I'll be damned..." Who are you, Patrick Henry? You really are a pompous ass. Second, to be with a grieving friend? Give me a break. Why didn't she go visit her friend in Chicago? She couldn't find time in her busy, busy schedule to go see a close friend? With all the vacations, maybe not. No one begrudges her for spending time with a friend, but to spend a vacation at an opulent European resort, and then claim it was to visit a grieving friend is after-the-fact crap. Still, as above, the issue is so minor and private that I do not care all that much. No, but you'll make 243 posts in one thread about an issue you don't care about.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 19, 2010 18:05:47 GMT -5
George W. Bush relapsed and began drinking heavily during his presidency. George W. Bush had an affair with Condi Rice. You want to get into the nasty allegations about the Bush twins, too? You're kind of proving my point for me - particularly by using the word "allegations". All of that stuff is rumor and noise. Where Barack Obama was born and what religion he practices are questions that have pretty simple, straightforward answers. Unless, of course, you're so far gone that you think the man's entire life has been one giant, orchestrated lie. But I hope no one with an ounce of sense thinks that we're living in The Truman Show. You're right. His father was Muslim. So, under Islamic law, wouldn't Obama be considered a Muslim?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 19, 2010 18:23:13 GMT -5
Has President Obama released a copy of his baptismal certificate? By doing so he could clear up this issue muy pronto.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 19, 2010 22:03:42 GMT -5
Has President Obama released a copy of his baptismal certificate? By doing so he could clear up this issue muy pronto. How so? He released his birth records, and the only thing that cleared up was the biases of folks who choose not to accept Obama as an American.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 19, 2010 22:25:04 GMT -5
Has President Obama released a copy of his baptismal certificate? By doing so he could clear up this issue muy pronto. Well that would certainly introduce Catholicism into this never ending story, wouldn't it?
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