Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
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Post by Bando on Aug 17, 2010 13:32:31 GMT -5
This was, of course, before Pam Gellar picked up the story and it ran all the way up the right-wing outrage machine until Fox couldn't ignore it anymore, at which point it moved to the rest of the MSM. God bless the American press!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 17, 2010 14:36:26 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me is the notion that people who visit ground zero would even see this building or know it was there. If you were going to ground zero you would never see this building. and second the fact that most people wouldn't know or care about this building until the media made a big deal about it.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Aug 17, 2010 15:12:04 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me is the notion that people who visit ground zero would even see this building or know it was there. If you were going to ground zero you would never see this building. and second the fact that most people wouldn't know or care about this building until the media made a big deal about it. You'll see this building. If you're taking the subway to WTC, you'll get off at Chambers or Park Place or something in that E/PATH complex that's all f'd up with construction. Either way, it's right there off West Broadway. You won't be able to miss it. So I don't buy this "you won't see it" deal. You will. I saw the Burlington Coat Factory building every day for two years walking from the PATH up Greenwich and it's not 13 stories, shiny, and new with people flooding in and out of it. I agree when this goes up nobody will care in a year, but let's clear something up, you'll see this building.
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
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Post by Bando on Aug 17, 2010 15:27:05 GMT -5
...and it will burn your eyes out with it's awful Muslimness. Save us, Newt Gingrich, you're our only hope.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Aug 17, 2010 15:45:21 GMT -5
Another thing to remember is that this place will have indoor basketball courts. That's not really key to any political debate, but I kind of want an indoor court downtown. There aren't as many in this city as there should be.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 17, 2010 18:58:31 GMT -5
The thing that bothers me is the notion that people who visit ground zero would even see this building or know it was there. If you were going to ground zero you would never see this building. and second the fact that most people wouldn't know or care about this building until the media made a big deal about it. You'll see this building. If you're taking the subway to WTC, you'll get off at Chambers or Park Place or something in that E/PATH complex that's all f'd up with construction. Either way, it's right there off West Broadway. You won't be able to miss it. So I don't buy this "you won't see it" deal. You will. I saw the Burlington Coat Factory building every day for two years walking from the PATH up Greenwich and it's not 13 stories, shiny, and new with people flooding in and out of it. I agree when this goes up nobody will care in a year, but let's clear something up, you'll see this building. Giga... if you pass it on the way to the WTC, yes, you will see it. But FROM the WTC, you can't see it. Moreover, I believe eventually they will replace the subway stop at WTC that used to be there.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Aug 17, 2010 19:34:08 GMT -5
Anyone remember this? denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0428cros1.shtmlIIRC a parent of one of the victims cut down the crosses and they never went back up. GIGA's earlier is very thought provoking. The opposition to the "mosque" is irrationally racist and xenophobic imo but what many fail to understand is that labeling those motives as such does not banish the sentiment, particularly for those who can't help but have overwhelming emotions about the issue. I hope the Imam knows what he's doing; having the moral high ground doesn't mean you win
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 17, 2010 20:01:05 GMT -5
Another thing to remember is that this place will have indoor basketball courts. That's not really key to any political debate, but I kind of want an indoor court downtown. There aren't as many in this city as there should be. This fact, and only this fact, explains Barry O's support. He needs another spot for high-giving cronies to let him beat them at basketball. On another topic, if BUND=NAZI, does CAIR not equal HAMAS?
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Aug 17, 2010 20:15:58 GMT -5
You'll see this building. If you're taking the subway to WTC, you'll get off at Chambers or Park Place or something in that E/PATH complex that's all f'd up with construction. Either way, it's right there off West Broadway. You won't be able to miss it. So I don't buy this "you won't see it" deal. You will. I saw the Burlington Coat Factory building every day for two years walking from the PATH up Greenwich and it's not 13 stories, shiny, and new with people flooding in and out of it. I agree when this goes up nobody will care in a year, but let's clear something up, you'll see this building. Giga... if you pass it on the way to the WTC, yes, you will see it. But FROM the WTC, you can't see it. Moreover, I believe eventually they will replace the subway stop at WTC that used to be there. That's true. I just think that WTC station will be done in 2016 so if you visit ground zero, you've got a pretty good chance of running into this thing. But yes, from WTC itself, you can't see it.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 17, 2010 21:31:59 GMT -5
On a related note, we could learn a few things from the example below: www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/auschwitz-pilgrimmage-jew_n_685436.htmlI think/hope many of us have been to a concentration camp during trips to Germany/Poland. I say that having been to one - Dachau. As others have rightly pointed out, the scale and meaning of the Holocaust cannot be compared to the tragedies our country has seen. The plain horror is captured well in both the maintenance of the facilities and the related museum.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Aug 18, 2010 9:07:15 GMT -5
Is it a Sister Souljah moment when Pat Buchanan reprimands Newt Gingrich for demagoguery, Godwin's Law, and xenophobia, or just irony?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 18, 2010 9:09:58 GMT -5
I mean i'm not familiar with NYC but just looking on the map it's in the middle of a block on a street parallel to the ground 0 site so it would seem you wouldn't see it unless you're specifically looking down that street on your way to the site because looking at the map there doesn't appear to be a reason why you would walk down that street to go to the site.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 18, 2010 10:59:18 GMT -5
FWIW, Fox took a video at the intersection of Park & Broadway that shows the sight lines. video.foxnews.com/v/4313929/gov-paterson-lobbies-to-move-mosqueIf, like me, you can't stand listening to Gretchen Carlson for more than 0.5 seconds, you can skip ahead to about the 2-minute mark. (OK, you're still going to have to listen to her. Sorry.) I am not commenting on any of their comments or opinions, just noting that they provided this video. Seems to me from that clip that if you are AT ground zero, you can't see the mosque. If you're AT the mosque, you can't see ground zero. But walking between them, both would be pretty visible. Then again, I'm not entirely sure that the visual sight lines are at the heart of this debate. But whatever. Take the clip FWIW. (Actually, the first part of the video is kind of interesting in that they're discussing Gov. Patterson's attempts to broker a compromise deal, but again, you'd have to listen to a lot of Gretchen, which may make you want to plunge chopsticks into your ears.)
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 18, 2010 11:40:04 GMT -5
my point is and it seems clear in that video to me you'd have to go out of your way to look to your left while walking down the street on your way to ground zero.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Aug 18, 2010 12:22:00 GMT -5
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 18, 2010 13:25:33 GMT -5
Or maybe the Imam now believes, rightly I think, that "compromise" at this stage is just bending over to the right-wing media machine. Again, I think in terms of the cultural center's PR, they'd benefit from compromising. But their refusal to do so does not change either of the following facts: (a) they have a legal right to build where they want, and (b) they have absolutely nothing to do with the individuals or the belief system that led to 9/11, and so they should not be treated like some kind of co-conspirators.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 18, 2010 15:04:01 GMT -5
Is Harry Reid contributing to the right-wing media machine?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 18, 2010 15:09:03 GMT -5
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 18, 2010 15:21:20 GMT -5
I know it is tough to stomach, but Harry Reid is not that liberal. It would be nice if one of his Republican colleagues would cross the aisle in a similar matter and with the same regularity. CQ's 2008 ratings for party unity had him at 84% - that makes him a maverick in some circles. ;D
On edit, Ted Olson, a well-respected conservative thinker, has come out in support of the New York City community center proposal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2010 15:32:04 GMT -5
I know it is tough to stomach, but Harry Reid is not that liberal. It would be nice if one of his Republican colleagues would cross the aisle in a similar matter and with the same regularity. On edit, Ted Olson, a well-respected conservative thinker, has come out in support of the New York City community center proposal. His wife died in the plane that hit the Pentagon. Just in case anyone's wondering what someone from a victim's family might think...
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