SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,312
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 2, 2010 11:03:50 GMT -5
Not just you. It looks like an oldtime set shot to me.
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Post by jjherr27 on Mar 2, 2010 11:07:35 GMT -5
It was great to see him get minutes last night and I think he contributed a great deal... but am I the only person that think his stroke looks strange? Not that i care if the ball goes in.
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Post by dcc33 on Mar 2, 2010 11:10:16 GMT -5
If Starks isn't a true point either, what happens when Chris graduates? You've got Vee, Clark & Starks with all three being secondary ballhandlers. Is this a fair assessment? Starks is a point, who can also play off the ball. I think he will take over as a soph as primary ball handler after Chris graduates. His handles are quite tight, according to everything I've heard and seen.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,312
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 2, 2010 11:11:37 GMT -5
Also, isn't it true that JTIII doesn't seem to get hung up on 1 v 2 guards? Doesn't he alway say he recruits basketball players that fit the system?
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on Mar 2, 2010 11:15:16 GMT -5
Also, isn't it true that JTIII doesn't seem to get hung up on 1 v 2 guards? Doesn't he alway say he recruits basketball players that fit the system? He can say it, but it isn't evident with this current group. This was true with his first regime here. Wallace, Cook, and Sapp could play the 1 or 2. Jeff could play the 3, 4 or 5. PE, Jr. could play the 3 or 4. Owens could play the 2 or 3.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 2, 2010 11:36:20 GMT -5
in my opinion vee has been ready since he came and showed what hes showing now in the kenner he penetrated for the short pull up j he hustled and he hit threes which ARE NOT his strength we need him and he can help lots.. go hoyas go vee Um, lic my buddy - didn't you tell us that Henry looked really good in Kenner? Not always the best indicator.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Mar 2, 2010 12:31:58 GMT -5
If you play Vee & Clark at the same time to give Chris a 5-minute break, you don't want either of them to try to be Chris Wright, any more than you wanted Wright to try to be Wallace. You take advantage of their length to play a more aggressive defense and try to force some turnovers.
I am not so worried about Vee's handle. He hasn't made turnovers against WVU, Syracuse, Louisville, or ND. He has tried fewer risky plays than anyone else. He probably reduced his teammates turnovers by moving to a position where he could receive a pass. He doesn't hold the ball and wait for the defense to get set before making a pass.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 2, 2010 12:42:48 GMT -5
I'm not the unbridled Vee booster the rest of the posters (minus the way's pessimistic system-blaming. lol @ all that false dichotomies and blaming the offense and not the defense. Oh, btw, turnovers per game this year: 14.5. TOs per game in the final four year: 13.5. The offense is one that accepts more turnovers in order to get more high percentage shots when there aren't TOs).
I saw why JT3 didn't play him earlier in the season: he doesn't grasp the offense well. While he's able to create and will be a good player and defensive is already a solid contributor, he was almost as ineffective in terms of running a system and knowing where to be as Jerelle used to look (now Jerelle just looks like he lacks confidence in his shot/driving). Part of that is needing to get burn to get used to the system, but part of it is learning the offense in practice. Unlike with Jerelle's position as a 3/4, Vee's competing with a fellow defensive player (Clark, when not in his recent slump) for minutes, except Clark knows the offense better. Next season, i expect we'll see more of Vee, and a slight decline in Jason's minutes because of it. And Markel will likely get 10 minutes from Chris as well.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 2, 2010 12:44:44 GMT -5
Frankly, his system got too much credit when we went to the Final Four and sweet sixteen. Was it the system, or having 2 NBA first round draft picks the reason for why we did what we did. Was it the system or was Jon Wallace just a heady ball-player with ice in his veins in crunch time. Was it the system or was it Tyler Crawford's leadership among the players, despite the fact he rarely played on the court. Was it the system or was it PE, Jr's relentless hustle, talent, and enthusiasm for the game? Was it the system or was it young supportive role players like Rivers, Summers, and Sapp? Was it the system or was it all of the aforementioned players's chemistry on the court? It comes down to what type of players you have, and not just your system. How do we know that the system didn't help cause this? All underrated players with a chance at an unkown "system" to be world beaters. To buy in completely into this system and let it carry you and develop you. To listen to your coach when he tells you what to improve and how it will impact the system. To me it seems, like many great things, that that team was a thing of being at the right place at the right time. Having a WHOLE team of student athletes that wanted to learn the game: a big man who knew his only chance at the league was to WORK HARD and be a WALL in the paint, a special forward who was about LEARNING the game not just using his athletic talents, a PG who was a true STUDENT of the Princeton Offense and the game of basketball and knew what he was getting into the whole time. The fact that Tyler was great friends with these three players and was able to pull in the bench players into the close group they became. PE Jr., the energizer bunny, always wanted to be in the game and always wanted to make an impact, and loved those high energy defensive plays, I feel that his year on the bench watching the game eagerly and improving his weaknesses (and strengths) was the best thing that could have ever happened for him. Unfortunately while Summers, Macklin, and Rivers were all good role players on that team due to their athleticism and the big 3, they were unwilling to develop certain skills to round out their games (or for JR wait for HIS chance, had he not transferred much of our defensive woes would have been solved). On the recruiting front, JTIII is still young. He is still trying to figure out what works in what he wants to do. Unfortunately his offense is complex and to find players that can master it and learn and play his help defense (which is also complex) is difficult. We need a 5 that is a DEFENDER that needs to be developed on offense and for the rest we need them to either a DEFENDER that is smart on offense and knows when to take theirs and when to pass it on or a triple threat on offense and be at least COMPETENT on defense. Just so this isn't a complete tangent ;D. I've loved Vee all season long and every time I have seen him in bits it has only left me wanting and begging for more! Only rationales that I have for JTIII's thinking are that he was saving Vee for when/if Chris or Jason went out (injuries happen) as a secret weapon or was hoping that he could be similar to Chris' freshman year where he came back for the NCAAs and made an impact. Who knows, but if he doesn't get more minutes from here on out I will be flabbergasted
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jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,006
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Post by jester on Mar 2, 2010 13:14:41 GMT -5
I agree with those that feel Vee hasnt grasped the offense - just think certain things outwiegh that at some pt.
Especially if you have facilitators like Greg and Wright in the game and the person Vee could replace in Clark for some minutes is most effective (we hope) at defense and open threes, handling press, etc.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Mar 2, 2010 13:40:25 GMT -5
What last night and the ND game taught us, well at least those of us that are reasonable, is that Vee should be playing. I dont want to get into the arguments about how much or for who because I dont care. The point is he should be playing. I mentioned in another thread that it is very foreseeable that injury and illness occur at some point in the season. point being is that as good as Vee has been lately, he would likely be better if he had played earlier. And he wasnt playing in blowouts when the outcome of the game was clearly a foregone conclusion!! So it will be interesting what happens the rest of "the_way."
All i know is that Wright/Clark should not be getting 37+mpg while Vee rots on the bench. He could absolutely spell those guys 4 mins a piece and get his playing time up to 8 mpg and make contributions without too much of a drop off!
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
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Post by Buckets on Mar 2, 2010 16:23:30 GMT -5
I think part of the frustration over Sanford is that I'm not even sure III thinks he is ready to play, or would have played him against WV had his hand not been forced by Freeman being in the hospital. Sanford played 4 minutes to Freeman's 23 on Saturday when it was abundantly clear that Freeman was not in any condition to play. Considering the effort that Sanford put forth last night, he should have played the last 21 minutes that Austin played because it was very clear after two minutes that Freeman was not physically capable of being productive. Horrendous coaching decision Saturday, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the additional energy that Sanford would have brought could have flowed over to the rest of the team's defensive effort, and might have altered the outcome of the game.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Mar 2, 2010 17:01:28 GMT -5
I think part of the frustration over Sanford is that I'm not even sure III thinks he is ready to play, or would have played him against WV had his hand not been forced by Freeman being in the hospital. Sanford played 4 minutes to Freeman's 23 on Saturday when it was abundantly clear that Freeman was not in any condition to play. Considering the effort that Sanford put forth last night, he should have played the last 21 minutes that Austin played because it was very clear after two minutes that Freeman was not physically capable of being productive. Horrendous coaching decision Saturday, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the additional energy that Sanford would have brought could have flowed over to the rest of the team's defensive effort, and might have altered the outcome of the game. Agree 100% with you Free which is why I said 3 is an interesting predicament now. There is no way he can not play Vee at this point considering what he did for us the past few games. If he does, then there will be more than a few people up in arms. Kid should be getting minutes, PERIOD!
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