jester
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Post by jester on Mar 1, 2010 20:59:17 GMT -5
Let's at least give some props to Vee. The dropoff between Clark and him just wasnt that great, and he showed potential on the press. He may not have the experience, but he has handled himself well enough to deserve some time.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Mar 1, 2010 21:03:59 GMT -5
Without a doubt.
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superan
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Post by superan on Mar 1, 2010 21:05:27 GMT -5
I feel a lot more comfortable if free or wright ever get in foul trouble
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 1, 2010 21:11:27 GMT -5
Thanks goodness we only played him 34 minutes in the first 16 Big East games. We were obviously saving him until Wright's legs gave out. Smart move.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Mar 1, 2010 21:17:26 GMT -5
Unfortunately the only thing Clark contributes at this point is spot up threes, so hopefully Vee can get some consistent minutes.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 1, 2010 21:17:51 GMT -5
Let's at least give some props to Vee. The dropoff between Clark and him just wasnt that great... Haven't seen the stats, but my man Clark played poorly. Vee played better.
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Post by harwoodhoya on Mar 1, 2010 21:19:30 GMT -5
Showed great signs tonight. A positive in an otherwise negative night.
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jester
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Post by jester on Mar 1, 2010 21:21:14 GMT -5
to clarify, if clark and vee are primarily in for defense and the occasional three, it seems they are of the same cloth, and playing each minutes more evenly well perhaps give them each more energy as the chase around the guards and benefit the D overall...just my thinking.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Mar 1, 2010 21:29:47 GMT -5
Some fans have cried all season to give Vee some minutes. We now know that his talent has been wasted on the bench. III sure is stubborn.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 1, 2010 21:35:32 GMT -5
Some fans have cried all season to give Vee some minutes. We now know that his talent has been wasted on the bench. III sure is stubborn. 'Course, you don't know that. I've liked Vee from the moment he committed and have been impressed, especially by his defensive talents, for a while. I'd have liked him to get more time. But you don't know when Vee was ready. He's a freshman, and it's very possible that Vee has been improving rapidly and is now ready to get more time. What if Vee had played substantial minutes in the UConn game or another close game and wasn't ready yet? What if it had cost us that game? At least acknowledge that a) the staff sees a hell of a lot more of Vee's play than you do b) they might actually have had a legitimate, logical and possibly even correct reason for their choices Throwing people into the fire isn't always the best way to develop a player.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 1, 2010 21:43:08 GMT -5
He needed minutes all season. No good reason he should not have been in the rotation.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Mar 1, 2010 21:46:11 GMT -5
in my opinion vee has been ready since he came and showed what hes showing now in the kenner he penetrated for the short pull up j he hustled and he hit threes which ARE NOT his strength we need him and he can help lots.. go hoyas go vee
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 1, 2010 22:27:11 GMT -5
Some fans have cried all season to give Vee some minutes. We now know that his talent has been wasted on the bench. III sure is stubborn. 'Course, you don't know that. I've liked Vee from the moment he committed and have been impressed, especially by his defensive talents, for a while. I'd have liked him to get more time. But you don't know when Vee was ready. He's a freshman, and it's very possible that Vee has been improving rapidly and is now ready to get more time. What if Vee had played substantial minutes in the UConn game or another close game and wasn't ready yet? What if it had cost us that game? At least acknowledge that a) the staff sees a hell of a lot more of Vee's play than you do b) they might actually have had a legitimate, logical and possibly even correct reason for their choices Throwing people into the fire isn't always the best way to develop a player. SF, we have 9 scholarship players on this team. Vee got 47 minutes combined in the following games: Tulane, Savannah State, Lafayette, Mt. St. Mary's, American, Harvard, and Depaul Would it have killed us to throw him in there for a solid spell? The kid has 13 steals in 100 minutes. We had chances to play him in low risk (no risk) situations. He's shown nothing but hustle and the ability to disrupt the opponent at the very least. And in his first big opportunity for minutes he comes out cold in a hostile environment and has a more than passable game. Oh and did I mention that small thing about desperately needing a back-up point guard for Chris? All signs point to "we should have played Vee earlier." Nothing we can do now. I hope he's earned some time to develop in the Garden. But let's get a little real here. The "we don't see them every day" argument can be used for anything. But you like statistics and odds. What are the chances Vee really flipped a switch in two days and could not have contributed earlier?
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 1, 2010 22:29:18 GMT -5
He supposedly dominated the preseason scrimmage against Va Tech. It just should not be this hard to manage a 4-man guard rotation, especially when we play with 3 guards in the game for 2/3 of the time. Vee has shown the kind of defensive and rebounding energy that this team has needed at some time in at least a half dozen tough games. It would have been nice to have seen Vee get some 5-8 minutes stretches on the floor with Monroe and Freeman all season long.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 1, 2010 22:33:12 GMT -5
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Mar 1, 2010 22:40:20 GMT -5
He's looked good, but so did Benimon the first two times he played.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 1, 2010 22:50:21 GMT -5
In the past 4 games, against Syracuse, @ Louisville, Notre Dame, and @ WVU, Vee has played 34 minutes and has 5 steals, 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 turnovers, and 13 points on 3/5 from the field and 5/7 from the foul line.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 1, 2010 23:02:48 GMT -5
He's looked good, but so did Benimon the first two times he played. I'll take it! JB isn't a world beater and he makes freshmen mistakes on offense, but he's out there to do the one thing he does and that's hit the boards. He's our second-best defensive rebounder in conference play and considering how often we like to give those up, that's a good role to have. If Vee had one thing that he could do (and steals might be it), I'd still say give him minutes.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 1, 2010 23:06:56 GMT -5
Giga, I'm a huge fan of Vee. Love his ability to generate steals.
And the one thing I think is an almost always-valid criticism of Thompson is how little he plays his backups in complete cream-puff games.
So no, of course, I think Vee could have played more.
And yes, I think him playing well over 21 minutes here is a data point to him being ready now and likely ready before now. As is the Greenberg quote.
But I think there's very little evidence to say he was ready to play 21 minutes ten games ago. And Vee would be far from the first freshman this year to have a big game and then fade as the scouting report wears off a bit.
Furthermore, I'm not convinced of the fatigue argument (see that thread for why).
And lastly, while Chris has been pretty bad the second half of the season, he was fantastic the first half. And Vee is not a PG. And Clark has had his share of bad games and good games.
Are we playing a four guard lineup now? Are we replacing what little bigs we have with even smaller players? Is it possible that III thinks that he's playing his best three? Is it possible he's right?
Giga, it's not the comment that maybe we should play Vee more, or should have, or that we should bring him in on D or for a spark I disagree with. It's the certainty that he should have been playing much bigger minutes previously.
I can see an entirely rational and very likely correct argument for the other side. The commentary that "we know" Vee has "been wasted" because "iii sure is stubborn" is what annoys me.
Maybe he is in this situation. Or maybe there's a reason he thinks Wright, Freeman and Clark are better and should get the lion's share.
Where do Vee's minutes come from?
Freeman? Please.
Wright? As much as Chris has struggled, I shudder to see the offense when he's out.
Clark? Very similar player. I like the idea of shuttling them in and out and asking them to play crazy intense, but if you aren't going to do that... do you think Vee is better than Clark?
Hollis and Benimon? So yeah, he may be better than one of these guys, particularly Benimon. Except that many of their minutes come when Julian (and a couple for Greg) are out. I seem to remember you being someone who kind of hates small lineups.
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 1, 2010 23:15:24 GMT -5
On another point - does Vee's shot look a little odd, or is it just me? Obviously it looks like he can shoot the rock, but he starts it so low it looks like a big could block it with his chest!
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