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Post by professorhoya on Mar 2, 2010 15:43:45 GMT -5
It's amazing how fickle and fair weather some of you are.
You have probably your second most important player, Freeman out with some kind of sickness and you expect the team to be firing on all cylinders against a tourney team (ND) and a top 10 team (WV). I wouldn't expect USF to be the same without a healthy James, or the bulls to be the same without Michael Jordan back in the day.
With all your negativity, it's amazing what kind of damage you guys are doing to recruiting with all the potential high school recruits who are reading this board. This board may be a big part of the reason that JT3 is having problems recruiting. I certainly wouldn't want to come to Gtown with fans as fickle and as negative and pointing fingers at all the players and coaches as it sometimes appears here.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 2, 2010 16:01:58 GMT -5
If recruits use posts on this board and others like it as a barometer of whether they are going to choose one college over another, then they aren't paying attention to what is really important.
Yes, lots of people, recruits, players, and staff, read this board. That's why we try to keep the discussion in bounds. Taking a leap from that to thinking that anything posted here has an actual influence on the program, either positive or negative, is pretty delusional.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Mar 2, 2010 16:04:39 GMT -5
It's amazing how fickle and fair weather some of you are. You have probably your second most important player, Freeman out with some kind of sickness and you expect the team to be firing on all cylinders against a tourney team (ND) and a top 10 team (WV). I wouldn't expect USF to be the same without a healthy James, or the bulls to be the same without Michael Jordan back in the day. With all your negativity, it's amazing what kind of damage you guys are doing to recruiting with all the potential high school recruits who are reading this board. This board may be a big part of the reason that JT3 is having problems recruiting. I certainly wouldn't want to come to Gtown with fans as fickle and as negative and pointing fingers at all the players and coaches as it sometimes appears here. First of all, I agree that a vocal minority of the fans who post here are whiny little b's. Second of all, EVERY fan base has a faction like that, so any player reading the message boards of schools they are considering is going to find it all over. I don't think it's any worse here - in fact, on the whole I'd say most posters here bend over backwards not to offend or attack the players while still expressing their frustration. Third of all, Notre Dame was not a tourney team before they played us. They were a fringe bubble team - we made them into more of a consensus tourney team when we decided not to play defense last Saturday. How nice of us. Fourth of all... there is no fourth of all.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 2, 2010 16:12:02 GMT -5
Fourth of all... there is no fourth of all.
lol.........
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 2, 2010 16:16:54 GMT -5
If recruits use posts on this board and others like it as a barometer of whether they are going to choose one college over another, then they aren't paying attention to what is really important. Yes, lots of people, recruits, players, and staff, read this board. That's why we try to keep the discussion in bounds. Taking a leap from that to thinking that anything posted here has an actual influence on the program, either positive or negative, is pretty delusional. I call it like I see it. The truth may hurt when you look in the mirror. The fickleness is comical. Jeremiah Rivrers is horrible. (Well, actually he was horrible) Macklin is horrible. Nikita is horrible, Henry Sims is good, he should take all the minutes. Henry Sims is terrible, Benimonster is awesome. We have no depth. Well maybe you would have depth if you and the bloggers didn't run some of these players out of town. Wright is a terrible player. Monroe just isn't trying. JT3 can't coach. JT3 can't recruit. JT3 has bad play calling. Get rid of the system. Funny thing is we haven't been playing the system all year and some of you never even realized it. Nikita said the reason he left was because JT3 is no longer playing the Princeton system this year. I think we've had a great season this year. Kids have come to play this year unlike last year (when we had the incident that destroyed morale). We've been in every single game till the end except for the two games Freeman was sick and the 1st Syracuse game. I don't see how anyone can compare this year to last year if they actually watched every single game (and I've watched every game twice) from both years. Sure there are some problems, really a team that only goes 5 deep with no bench. And still playing basically a 3 guard offense which is going to hurt rebounding. But overall this is a very solid team, that gives alot of effort in every game. Certainly more effort than someone of the people on this board show with their keyboard warrior negativity and fickleness.
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Mar 2, 2010 16:28:42 GMT -5
Well maybe you would have depth if you and the bloggers didn't run some of these players out of town. Dramatic much??? This isn't even close to a pro sport in a major city where highly paid athletes get torn apart on talk shows, papers, blogs, etc. Please show me ONE shred of evidence of a JT III-era transfer leaving because of the fans. I agree with you about the board and emotional roller coaster, but your posts just feed into it all. You're no better than a repetitive player, coach, or system hater.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,604
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 2, 2010 16:42:21 GMT -5
I call it like I see it. The truth may hurt when you look in the mirror. The fickleness is comical. No argument on most all of the "mirror" comments and your assessment of the fickleness displayed here. It's quite a leap to think that anything that goes on here has any major effect on the basketball program. The people that post here represent a tiny microcosm of all Hoya fans.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 2, 2010 17:35:39 GMT -5
I call it like I see it. The truth may hurt when you look in the mirror. The fickleness is comical. No argument on most all of the "mirror" comments and your assessment of the fickleness displayed here. It's quite a leap to think that anything that goes on here has any major effect on the basketball program. The people that post here represent a tiny microcosm of all Hoya fans. I think it reflects poorly on the fans as the fans here represent pretty much all the hoya fans out there. That may be a skewed view of the fans, but it's the reality. Most of the hoya fans and potential recruits are going to congregate to the #1 hoya internet message board as their main means of communication and following the team. It's understandable that every team sports board is going to be pretty negative when they lose but I do think there is a point where criticism can be cancerous. Pointing fingers at everyone and finally just grasping at straws, (Oh, they aren't trying!" - how would you know that, you aren't out there). Part of it is expectations. After the Final Four people are pretty much unhappy unless they get close to reaching it. Which is a pretty tall order. But I'll contrast it with my friend who is a die hard Hokie fan. They are just happy if they can make the tournament this year. That will be a successful season for them. I've really enjoyed this season. Last season was painful to watch with the incident and the breakdown in team morale. They basically just gave up at the end because certain people didn't want to play with each other. But this season everyone is on the same page, they like playing with each other, and they are giving 100% effort. I couldn't ask for more. If you came to this board however, it comes across as an awful season, just like last year, and that is not the case at all. People criticize JT3, but he's adjusted, adapted. He's scrapped the Princeton offense and ball control game (which impacts the number of shots the opponent gets) in favor of an uptempo team that will outscore the opposition. That's what many people on here wanted anyway, yet people still complain. We have a good team this year. One that is giving 100% effort and has beat some really good teams. Every game has come down to the wire except the two games w/o Freeman and the 1st Syracuse game (Syracuse is very good), you can't ask for much more than that. They play in a tough Big East, there are no easy games, and they have done very well. And they are a lock for the tourney. If that's not improvement, then well you're never going to be happy.
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momzer
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by momzer on Mar 2, 2010 17:41:45 GMT -5
I guess that's one way of looking at the glass half-full
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 2, 2010 20:22:25 GMT -5
Hilarious that some posters think "we've scrapped the offense." Just a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball, or not really watching the game at all.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 2, 2010 22:07:41 GMT -5
Hilarious that some posters think "we've scrapped the offense." Just a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball, or not really watching the game at all. I would disagree. Although this does illustrate the problem of someone not understanding what he is watching. The offense is not the same offense that has been employed the last couple years. Why do you think the opponents scoring opportunties have gone up. Why are we scoring more. It's really quite simple. Not to mention the fact that earlier this year Nikita mentioned that one of the reasons that he transferred was because of the change in offensive system: "Mescheriakov, who moved from Belarus 3½ years ago to attend St. John's Prospect Hall High in suburban Washington D.C., said he left Georgetown partly because the Hoyas changed their offense this season from a Princeton-style attack to one less reliant on spreading the floor and looking for backdoor cuts to the basket."
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 2, 2010 22:31:48 GMT -5
Hilarious that some posters think "we've scrapped the offense." Just a complete lack of understanding of the game of basketball, or not really watching the game at all. I would disagree. Although this does illustrate the problem of someone not understanding what he is watching. The offense is not the same offense that has been employed the last couple years. Why do you think the opponents scoring opportunties have gone up. Why are we scoring more. It's really quite simple. Not to mention the fact that earlier this year Nikita mentioned that one of the reasons that he transferred was because of the change in offensive system: "Mescheriakov, who moved from Belarus 3½ years ago to attend St. John's Prospect Hall High in suburban Washington D.C., said he left Georgetown partly because the Hoyas changed their offense this season from a Princeton-style attack to one less reliant on spreading the floor and looking for backdoor cuts to the basket." Why are we scoring more? It is quite simple, and it has nothing to do with scrapping the offensive system. I'll give you a few reasons. 1) Last year we broke the press just to get it across halfcourt. This year, we've done a much better job breaking the press to score easy baskets. Duke and 2nd Nova game are perfect examples, but there are also others. 2) This year as a team we are shooting 49.9% from the field (4th), 39.4% from 3 (16th). Last year, we shot 46.6% from the field (51st) and 33.2% from 3 (206th). Guys got better in the offseason shooting the ball from 3, notably Clark and Freeman. That comes with gaining strength and experience. The system remains the same. It's always been predicated on ball movement, precise cuts and getting the ball to the open man. The difference between this year and last is that the players are just shooting better. And with the improvements that Greg and Julian have both made to their offensive game after a year in the BE under their belts, you've seen increased scoring there too. Why are we giving up more points? Simple. Our defense isn't as good. Despite your insistence that we've become a run and gun team, we've only averaged 3.4 more possessions per game this year compared to last year. We're still ranked 191st in the nation in tempo. You can attribute that to guys not being tentative and taking open shots when they come instead of waiting for a better shot that never materializes and an improved transition game. Our eFG% on defense this year is 47.2% (98th), off last year's number of 45.9% (40th). As we've been saying all year, the guys just have not been stepping up with effort on defense, and that's been their Achilles' heel all season. We run the same screens and cuts as we have the entire time under JTIII's tenure. Once we get into the halfcourt, our system hasn't changed one bit. It's insane that anyone would try to suggest otherwise. As for Nikita... dude couldn't hack it here. He was looking for any excuse to get out of here instead of rot away on the bench. His play never warranted significant minutes, and quite frankly I'm not sure why we ever signed him in the first place. If he attributed his transfer to our changing of the offensive system to another system that didn't suit his "strengths," then he joins you as someone else who has no clue as to what the hell is going on. For any poster (Prof, Hoyaheaven, et al.) who thinks we run the Princeton offense when things aren't working and thinks we go away from it and run something else when our offense is successful, I can do nothing but shake my head.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 3, 2010 11:27:53 GMT -5
First of all, I agree that a vocal minority of the fans who post here are whiny little b's. Second of all, EVERY fan base has a faction like that, so any player reading the message boards of schools they are considering is going to find it all over. I don't think it's any worse here - in fact, on the whole I'd say most posters here bend over backwards not to offend or attack the players while still expressing their frustration. Third of all, Notre Dame was not a tourney team before they played us. They were a fringe bubble team - we made them into more of a consensus tourney team when we decided not to play defense last Saturday. How nice of us. Fourth of all... there is no fourth of all. Agreed with you on all your points but one funny addition to point three. After our game a lot of talking heads were saying ND was definitely in now with their big win at Georgetown, then after we showed how bad we actually are without Freeman against WVU, a lot of the same talking heads have been now saying that ND is on the outside of the bubble since their signature win is now recognized as being much weaker. Also, I don't know how Austin is not on the POY lists after the nation was able to see how bad we are without him.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 3, 2010 12:29:07 GMT -5
No argument on most all of the "mirror" comments and your assessment of the fickleness displayed here. It's quite a leap to think that anything that goes on here has any major effect on the basketball program. The people that post here represent a tiny microcosm of all Hoya fans. I think it reflects poorly on the fans as the fans here represent pretty much all the hoya fans out there. That may be a skewed view of the fans, but it's the reality. Most of the hoya fans and potential recruits are going to congregate to the #1 hoya internet message board as their main means of communication and following the team. It's understandable that every team sports board is going to be pretty negative when they lose but I do think there is a point where criticism can be cancerous. Pointing fingers at everyone and finally just grasping at straws, (Oh, they aren't trying!" - how would you know that, you aren't out there). Part of it is expectations. After the Final Four people are pretty much unhappy unless they get close to reaching it. Which is a pretty tall order. But I'll contrast it with my friend who is a die hard Hokie fan. They are just happy if they can make the tournament this year. That will be a successful season for them. I've really enjoyed this season. Last season was painful to watch with the incident and the breakdown in team morale. They basically just gave up at the end because certain people didn't want to play with each other. But this season everyone is on the same page, they like playing with each other, and they are giving 100% effort. I couldn't ask for more. If you came to this board however, it comes across as an awful season, just like last year, and that is not the case at all. People criticize JT3, but he's adjusted, adapted. He's scrapped the Princeton offense and ball control game (which impacts the number of shots the opponent gets) in favor of an uptempo team that will outscore the opposition. That's what many people on here wanted anyway, yet people still complain. We have a good team this year. One that is giving 100% effort and has beat some really good teams. Every game has come down to the wire except the two games w/o Freeman and the 1st Syracuse game (Syracuse is very good), you can't ask for much more than that. They play in a tough Big East, there are no easy games, and they have done very well. And they are a lock for the tourney. If that's not improvement, then well you're never going to be happy. Wow, are you even readng what you're posting? You lambaste posters for claiming that some players have not been "trying" or "playing hard" this year - then you allege that the team - whcih would mean EVERYONE, including the 6 guys who returned this year - "basically just gave up" last season. Are you the pot or the kettle in this scenario? And we have not "scrapped" the offense, we have made adjustments and some variations to counter other teams having game planned to defend the way it has been run in the past, and to try to accomodate our personnel this year. I would not take a disgruntled transfer's characterization as truth - especially since he apparently left because he was driven out by this board!
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