NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Dec 20, 2009 15:23:49 GMT -5
I have to admit, like michaelgrahamfan, I saw Vaughn as a guy that clearly just needed time to learn the system. He had the tools, he showed flashes by the end of last season that he knew his role and position. Although he has exceeded my expectations, I can say I am not completely surprised.
What I was surprised about was that JT3 mentioned Sims as the starter this summer. I was down on Henry all of last year and now I feel the same way. I do not put much weight in recruit rankings, so I was just going by what I saw with Sims. He always looks lost and is often simply out of position. I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised this season, but he looks exactly the same as a year ago. I am not one of these folks that wants instant results, but by this point in his career, he needs to at least be in the position to make the right play even if he cannot physically deliver. Common sense tells you the game is moving too fast for him.
I also have to agree with Daytona, his future contributions need to be discounted. I keep hoping like everyone else to see him improve, but I am not sure how you can defend his development curve at this point. At this stage, Benimom shows more poise, I am actually more comfortable when I see him in the game. Sometimes you just need a guy who can continue to run the offense and defense, nothing more.
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robbyt
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Post by robbyt on Dec 20, 2009 18:15:39 GMT -5
Don Reid looked completely lost for two years and ended up in the pros. It will click for Henry.
Henry needs more floor time, but also needs to be explained a simple set of roles to stay within. The whole "team of jacks of all trades" thing has to be put aside for a dude 6'10 who is your only healthy backup big man. Just tell him to rebound and put back and block shots.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Dec 20, 2009 19:57:31 GMT -5
NCHOYA is dead on. JV did show flashes of understanding the system but it was much more than that. You can look in Vaughns eyes and hes a competitor and when his skills started to catch up to his heart he became a positive asset on the court. At the end of last year he was feeding Monroe in the post or making a good low post move, the kid was a player. I havent seen one nice basketball move out of Sims. (maybe a put back dunk last year or something)
Not a Nice pass Not a nice jump shot I dont think he has put 2 moves together.
I like DAYTONA want him to succeed, But ive been on this since he came on the hilltop. Hopefully he turns it around Im rooting for him, well see.....
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 20, 2009 23:07:23 GMT -5
Henry Sims is what he is, and not what a lot of folks on here have made him out to be.
Some folks are confused and frustrated with Henry due to their own miscalculations of what Henry is.
Thats why you hear comments that Henry is like Vaughn was last year. Or even the more incredulous comparison of Henry is like Don Reid.
And quite honestly, Vernon Macklin showed a lot more "promise" here at G-town than Henry has at all.
Look, Henry is not that good, right now. He just isn't. If he could contribute, JTIII would play him more. Because, shoot, we could use him and a guy like him with size.
Whatever we get from Henry this year, would help. But, i don't think it will be much, if anything at all.
Fortunately for Henry, he has 2 years, plus this year to develop into a contributor. We can't just write him off just yet. But at the same time, up to this point, he hasn't shown anything to warrant playing time.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 21, 2009 9:54:04 GMT -5
JT III was presumably not just blowing smoke last summer when he touted Sims improvement. No reason to build a guy up just to bench him. The only explanation has to be that Sims is not handling the real games as well as he did the practices.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 21, 2009 10:13:44 GMT -5
Henry is playing far too tentatively, you can see that he has noconfidence right now. But we need him to give us some help if we are going to do anything this season. I think Coach is really struggling trying to give Henry opportunities without crushing his confidence if things don't go well. When Henry telegraphed 2 bad passes in a row in the first half just before a timeout, I was interested to see if he would still be out there after the break.and I was glad to see that JT III gave him a couple more minutes. The staff needs to figure out a way to get him some confidence pretty quickly, or we will get decimated once the conference starts, particularly whenever Greg and/or Julian has foul trouble.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 21, 2009 10:46:53 GMT -5
Good point about sending Sims out again after some bad mistakes. JT III's father was great about pulling a kid for a dumb mistake and then getting him back in the game. It is essential to the development of a young player.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2009 12:20:25 GMT -5
I think there's some revisionist history here. Vaughn looked pretty awful at times last year -- he basically couldn't hold onto the ball or finish around the rim. He took a bunch of threes and floated outside on offense instead of banging. He's done an amazing job of improving.
Henry looks lost at times but other times displays some great potential. Weak-side blocks, put backs, ability to offensive rebound and finish, a nice stroke on FTs. I don't know how anyone could say he hasn't shown potentail.
And I'm not quite sure how anyone thinks picking up the game isn't something that can't be solved, and more easily than many physical issues.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 21, 2009 14:27:58 GMT -5
Vaughn had some tools that you could work with. He was our best low-post threat even last year. And he did some banging. He was only banger that we had. You could see or envision what he could be come with some more development. He had some skills for an inside game. Which he has developed and become a better player this year. You saw those raw skills.
Vaughn was a lot like Clark last year. Both were raw. But you could see that, with some refinement they could contribute.
With Henry, all we know he can really do is run up and down the floor. Thats it. You can't name one single thing he is skilled at, basketball-wise.
Thats the difference. That is the concern. That is why he gets no minutes on the court. Its not a confidence issue. Its a "he can't be effective at this stage of his development due to his lack of a skill-set" issue, imo. Again, if he is displaying all these talents some think he has, why isn't JTIII playing him more?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2009 14:56:20 GMT -5
I think Henry has good shot-blocking instincts.
He has a nice stroke for a big man.
He's a good shot blocker.
He's tall and long.
He's got good court vision and is an excellent passer when he doesn't force it.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 21, 2009 15:01:04 GMT -5
A guy with those skill sets you just mentioned would be getting playing time regularly, and not the type of minutes Henry is getting.
Thats all i'm saying.
I'll leave it at that.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2009 15:52:31 GMT -5
So wait.
Julian couldn't get PT last year, but there were things in his game that would make you think he could get PT this year.
But the fact that Henry isn't getting PT this year is evidence that there are no things in his game that would make you think he could get PT sometime in the future?
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 21, 2009 16:01:53 GMT -5
Julian got enough playing time to show what he could do last year.
Thats why, as others have pointed out, its not a shock to anybody what he is now based on what he did last year.
The only difference is, that he has evolved and grown as a player. which usually occurs for players.
Henry has done neither.
Sims shows nothing on the court. Last year or this year.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 21, 2009 16:23:41 GMT -5
Disagree on Sims showing nothing. But since I've never seen you acknowledge another person's point ever (that you didn't already agree with), I'm not going to bother arguing it. I see positive things and I expect the coaching staff does.
A player's amount of PT has to do with their level of current overall performance and the players in front of them -- not potential. So your point about Henry not playing a lot has little to do with this discussion.
BTW, Henry Sims has played on 30% of minutes this year and played 22% last year.
Vaughn played in 21% of minutes last year. So, um, yeah.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Dec 21, 2009 20:15:19 GMT -5
I predict that many posts here will be candidates for Boz's Memories that make you feel stupid thread. Count me firmly on Henry's bandwagon.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Dec 21, 2009 20:31:16 GMT -5
SFHOYA, Personally I think you are one of the finest contributers to this board and have always been fair to my critisim, that being said I really think the way is 100 percent right here. Hes not saying he doesnt want Sims To succeed or that in the future he cant suceed rather hes just not at the level to be a contributor.
I know your saying he has a nice stroke and is athletic but its really not transulating to, on court or in game success. Holis is light years ahead of Henry in oncourt confidence and probably outright skill.
As far as you saying sims is a good passer that I completely disagree, hes a turnover machine
Nice stroke for a big man... Maybe on the ft line when knowone is guarding him or while playing 1 on 1 with his buddies.
One thing you are correct he is tall and long, but I guess he cant mess that up..
Hope he learns and contributes but untill then Really it is what it is.....
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 21, 2009 21:25:41 GMT -5
Someone on this board suggested that Henry's role be limited. Put me in that corner. I don't remember Vaughn playing anything other than the 5 position last year and so far this year. Monroe plays the 4 whenever Vaughn is in the game and the 5 when he is not. Henry on the other hand plays the 4 position exclusively when he is in the game. He just has not gotten the position down pat yet. I would rather see Henry at the 5 position exclusively for a while like Vaughn. Let Monroe remain at the 4 spot when Henry replaces Vaughn and when Monroe needs to rest bring Hollis/Benimon in with Vaughn replacing Monroe and Henry. For those who have said he is not a good passer, you are correct if you mean passing from the wing like a 4 does, but I have seen him make very good passes into Greg from the top of the free throw lane, normally from the 5 position. This kid has talent and JT3 knows that, why else would he put him at the 4 position when Vaughn is in the game. He knows that Henry at 6'11" has a better chance of handling the 4 position than Vaughn at 6'9". Though it may limit his minutes for the near future, and increase Benimon's, I believe it will let him regain his confidence if he is listed as backup center only for the time being.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Dec 21, 2009 21:55:50 GMT -5
Someone on this board suggested that Henry's role be limited. Put me in that corner. I don't remember Vaughn playing anything other than the 5 position last year and so far this year. Monroe plays the 4 whenever Vaughn is in the game and the 5 when he is not. Henry on the other hand plays the 4 position exclusively when he is in the game. He just has not gotten the position down pat yet. I would rather see Henry at the 5 position exclusively for a while like Vaughn. Let Monroe remain at the 4 spot when Henry replaces Vaughn and when Monroe needs to rest bring Hollis/Benimon in with Vaughn replacing Monroe and Henry. For those who have said he is not a good passer, you are correct if you mean passing from the wing like a 4 does, but I have seen him make very good passes into Greg from the top of the free throw lane, normally from the 5 position. This kid has talent and JT3 knows that, why else would he put him at the 4 position when Vaughn is in the game. He knows that Henry at 6'11" has a better chance of handling the 4 position than Vaughn at 6'9". Though it may limit his minutes for the near future, and increase Benimon's, I believe it will let him regain his confidence if he is listed as backup center only for the time being. Love Henry Sims the person. But to answer your query, Henry plays the 4 b/c he cant play the 5. He has no post moves and cannot bang with other 5s. So that is why he plays the 4. Vaughn on the other hand does have a few moves and has become quite the rebounder. So the 5 spot has to be played by either him or Greg.
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Post by gtowndynasty on Dec 21, 2009 21:59:02 GMT -5
Oh and not to mention the 5 is typically the last line of defense if our perimeter players get beat. Henry has been out of position on D WAY too much to trust him to anchor the D, IMHO.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 21, 2009 23:28:51 GMT -5
Oh and not to mention the 5 is typically the last line of defense if our perimeter players get beat. Henry has been out of position on D WAY too much to trust him to anchor the D, IMHO. Well, how do we know he has no post moves and that he can't play the 5 position? I did not see him play in high school, but if I had to bet my money would be that at 6'11" he played the 5 position on his high school team. Look this young man may not be a good center, but at this stage of his development he knows more about the basics of playing the 5 than the 4. As I said before playing the 5 position exclusively right now may reduce his time on the court, but I would rather see him playing confidently and positively at the 5 position for five minutes than to see him play indecisively at the 4 for ten minutes .
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